Toyota Halts Sales of Eight U.S. Models After Recall

Doing some research, I have found what appears to be statistics on the failure rate of the accelerator pedal:

50 out of 22,000,000. That's .000227%
With 12 deaths occurring, all of them in situations that could have involved other vehicles that were on the road at the same time.
 
Sorry, but I'm going to disagree with this. AFAIK it was a design problem, not a maintenance (or lack thereof) issue.

And this is some kind of ancient history, it was just 8 or so years ago.
If the problem was lack of maintenance why did Toyota redesign the head after this problem showed up??????

Why did the problem go away after the redesign????

If Toyota paid like you say why the law suit.

If they were right and it was due to poor maintenance why did they louse the law suit.

Facts do not support your claim.

As to time it makes no difference if it was 10 years ago or today when a manufacture tries to avoid warranty problems by denying it that sucks.
You're both 100% correct. It was a design flaw. Toyota reduced the amount of coolant circulating through the head, into the engine block, to raise combustion temperatures inteh cylinders, to reduce emissions and gain some horsepower. It did both, but unless a customer ran a straight synthetic oil, and it appeared to be any brand of synthetic, it would "cook" a lot of brands of regular motor oil. A big part of the reason Toyota didn't catch this, and why it's still valid to bring it up today, is that Toyota didn't prototype enough, and relied on virtual prototyping to lower costs and speed up product development.

You have to prototype and physically test, because you can't possibly factor every single variable in, to utilize virtual testing as the majority of your product development process. Toyota themselves admitted to that in 2007, when then CEO Katsuaki Watanabe said they would do more prototyping.

Here's an article from 2007 on this: Quality Concerns

For several years, Toyota has taken pride in reducing vehicle development time and adopting time-saving innovations such as virtual prototypes. But those measures have lowered the quality of Toyota vehicles, engineers and executives acknowledge.

Because Toyota utilized a lot more virtual prototyping than GM, Ford, Honda, and others, for about ten years, and cars are designed so far in advance of actually building and selling them, that we're only seeing the beginning of problems for Toyota. How many things work fine for a while and then problems show up after you've put 40K or more miles on a car? Could be a lot.
 
With 12 deaths occurring, all of them in situations that could have involved other vehicles that were on the road at the same time.


Definitely not trivializing the issue, just trying to point out how small a percentage of issues there have actually been. In comparison to a similar large recall, the Ford/Firestone recall had over 120 fatalities (ten times more).

I'm not really defending Toyota or anything, but there seems to be a lot of vitriol being spewed on the internet the more I read about it - mostly by folks who are brand loyal to the domestics. I guess when you're at the forefront of your industry, everyone is always trying to knock you back. To me, at least, it seems like they have stepped up and done the right thing buy stopping sales and production in an effort to resolve the problem with so few incidents compared to overall units out there on the road. Again, not trying to trivialize the fatalities - just pointing out that Toyota seems to be somewhat proactive in dealing with the issue now.
 
Definitely not trivializing the issue, just trying to point out how small a percentage of issues there have actually been. In comparison to a similar large recall, the Ford/Firestone recall had over 120 fatalities (ten times more).

I'm not really defending Toyota or anything, but there seems to be a lot of vitriol being spewed on the internet the more I read about it - mostly by folks who are brand loyal to the domestics. I guess when you're at the forefront of your industry, everyone is always trying to knock you back. To me, at least, it seems like they have stepped up and done the right thing buy stopping sales and production in an effort to resolve the problem with so few incidents compared to overall units out there on the road. Again, not trying to trivialize the fatalities - just pointing out that Toyota seems to be somewhat proactive in dealing with the issue now.
I didn't think you were trivializing anything. I think part of this shows how seriously the public is taking it.

I think Toyota's handling of a lot of their defects is why they are on the receiving end of all this vitriol. The engine sludge issue even affect some Lexus owners, and they did a lot of "blame the owner", even when owners had maintenance records (I know there are some dumb car owners, hell, this is a detailing website - you know many of my neighbors think detailing a car is a waste of time?), except when they had their selling dealer perform the oil changes. They're being sued by one of their former attorneys - my wife is a paralegal (also unemployed at this time) - it's almost unheard of to have an attorney sue their former client for allegedly hiding evidence. And they've admitted in the past that they tried to grow too fast, adn maybe got a bit full of themselves. I tried to do business with them directly, and had indirect, through other suppliers, experience with them. As much as the Detroit 3 will drive you crazy, and they will, Toyota had an arrogant air about them that I can't describe in words. You know that saying about never believing your own press? A lot of us would repeat that right after they left the room. It wasn't all the time, but frequently you got the impression that they felt like "We know we're the best, and we can do no wrong".
 
Just heard on the news (talk radio) that Ford is recalling some trucks in Europe and/or China because they have the same style gas pedal assemblies made by the same Canadian company. I wonder who else this company supplies and if we will be seeing more recalls from other manufacturers.
 
Just heard on the news (talk radio) that Ford is recalling some trucks in Europe and/or China because they have the same style gas pedal assemblies made by the same Canadian company. I wonder who else this company supplies and if we will be seeing more recalls from other manufacturers.
Toyota is only 3% of CTS's business, so I think they supply a lot of auto makers. What a cluster**** they have on their hands. They issued a statement yesterday that said that one, they were puzzled by the whole recall, because Toyota only told them of eight instances of this problem, and two, they made the part to Toyota's specs.
 
From what I have read their are a lot of cars using the same device the big difference is they have a override built into the system so if it runs away when you apply the brakes it will shut the computer down.

Toyota chose to save a few dollars and not put that on their vehicles.

The 18 wheeler that I was driving back in 1985 was a DBW system and when something went wrong it would just idle and that happened far too often.. It is what we call progress.

I know Ford built the override into their vehicles but if they are recalling some models they may not have put the override on all models.

With Toyota's problem it would be smart for them to override everything even if their is no problem.

Since the trucking industry took this precaution 30 years ago it is time for the auto manufactures to follow their lead. The big rigs do have failure but you never hear of them running away they just won't do anything but idle or worse one just quit on me but I raised the hood pushed on all the multi connectors and it started.

Some times I yearn for a old Chevy 6 cylinder with a manual transmission and crank up windows not much to go wrong and didn't cost $1500.00 to fix when it did fail.
 
A friend of mine just posted this on Facebook ...

" Congrats to Ford Motor Company! The only American car company to turn a profit in 2009. Also the only American car company not currently owned by Obama and a Union. Coincidence? Nope."

Can you guess if he's an Obama fan or not?

Our government is ruining us.
 
The UAW gave GM and Chrysler concessions on retirement and health care but since Ford did not file for bankruptcy the got no breaks.

My grandson works for Toyota and last October Toyota cut their wages by 20% it is not a level playing field I don't see how Ford can survive.

They have improved their vehicles and brought several new models to market they are doing a good job but between the UAW and Obama I fear they will not make it.
 
The UAW gave GM and Chrysler concessions on retirement and health care but since Ford did not file for bankruptcy the got no breaks.

My grandson works for Toyota and last October Toyota cut their wages by 20% it is not a level playing field I don't see how Ford can survive.

They have improved their vehicles and brought several new models to market they are doing a good job but between the UAW and Obama I fear they will not make it.
Actually, in spring of last year, the UAW and Ford negotiated almost the same concessions on retirement and health care that GM & Chrysler got. The concessions the UAW members turned down last fall are insignificant financially, and only exist on paper. GM & Chrysler can't take advantage of those differences (which amount to less than a nickle an hour when added up) until they start hiring second tier (lower wage) employees. Guess what? They aren't, but Ford is, starting with a second shift in Chicago for the next gen Explorer, and then in Wayne, MI later this year for the next gen Focus. So in reality, Ford's costs aren't any higher than the other two.

What GM & Chrysler got, that Ford really wanted, but didn't get, was a no-strike clause for the 2012 contract negotiations. Would have been nice to have, but when none of your competition can't strike (the transplants are nonunion and GM & Chrysler can't strike until 2015), can the UAW really try to strike in 2012? I doubt it.
 
I have a good friend that retired from GM and was salary she lost her insurance.
So are you telling me that all retired salary from Ford lost their insurance also.
 
I have a good friend that retired from GM and was salary she lost her insurance.
So are you telling me that all retired salary from Ford lost their insurance also.
Salaried are different from hourly - hourly are union. Salaried are not.

That said, Ford salaried retirees older than 65 lost their health insurance in 2007, replaced with an $1800 annual stipend. Ford also stopped paying for any health care coverage for dependent children of retirees who are over 65 in 2007.
 
I have a good friend that retired from GM and was salary she lost her insurance.
So are you telling me that all retired salary from Ford lost their insurance also.

Most folks that retire from a place do lose the normal company plan for insurance. Keep in mind health insurance isn't a requirement that a company has to offer employees.

And my opinion of unions is that they make American workers uncompetitive in the global market. I work for a company where the hourly workers are unionized, and I have seen how inefficient it can be. Sure, there was a time when they were needed to help ensure fair wages and work conditions, but those times have passed.
 
Most folks that retire from a place do lose the normal company plan for insurance. Keep in mind health insurance isn't a requirement that a company has to offer employees.

And my opinion of unions is that they make American workers uncompetitive in the global market. I work for a company where the hourly workers are unionized, and I have seen how inefficient it can be. Sure, there was a time when they were needed to help ensure fair wages and work conditions, but those times have passed.
They haven't completely passed. When I worked as an industrial sales rep, I called on some businesses that are just begging for OSHA to shut them down. I've also called on some unionized companies, including some Big Three plants, where the problems between unionized production workers and salaried nonunion management cut both ways, including witnessing some hourly workers being civil in a meeting on work assignments, and the salaried supervisor engaging in insults and name calling, even when his superior told him to knock it off.

In a couple of cases, I held some training seminars for union skilled trades people, showing them how to properly perform some equipment repairs, and it was the salaried, nonunion supervisors who were being obstinate and insisted on the skilled trades taking shortcuts and doing it wrong. I'd like to say that I saw that only at the unionized auto plants, but in fact the only place I didn't see it was at DTE Energy (formerly Detroit Edison), and the two refineries I called on. The Northern Ohio power utilities, the unionized food processing plants, two steel mills, and a unionized glass plant were all places where I saw management, or a combination of antagonistic management and militant union members, causing problems. There's plenty of blame to spread around, and some of managements screw-ups make American companies uncompetitive, too.
 
I agree we are pricing ourselves out of the market but remember we are competing with countries that have people who are eager to work at $3 / hr. In the US, there are not enough workers wanting to work at $10 an hour...reasons why we have illegal immigration issues. One could argue that it is only right since it is capitalism. Capitalism can be very cruel.

The problem with most companies starts with poor management (short term thinking).
 
I agree we are pricing ourselves out of the market but remember we are competing with countries that have people who are eager to work at $3 / hr. In the US, there are not enough workers wanting to work at $10 an hour...reasons why we have illegal immigration issues. One could argue that it is only right since it is capitalism. Capitalism can be very cruel.

The problem with most companies starts with poor management (short term thinking).
+1 Exactly, on all points. I could not agree more.
 
Transportation Secy: Don't Drive Recalled Toyotas
LaHood Called Automaker 'A Little Safety Deaf' During Probe Of Problem

WASHINGTON (CBS) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
Toyota Motor Corp. is telling dealers that they should get parts to fix sticky gas pedals later this week. But the 4.2 million customers affected by a large recall may have to wait a while for repairs. (File)
Stan Honda/Getty Images

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(1/30/2010)
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(1/29/2010)
Toyota Extends Recall To Europe, China After US
(1/28/2010)
Toyota Dealers Unsure How To Respond To Recall
(1/27/2010)
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is advising owners of recalled Toyotas to stop driving them and get them fixed.

LaHood's warning came Wednesday in testimony before a House Appropriations subcommittee on transportation. LaHood says his advice to owners is to "stop driving it. Take it to a Toyota dealer because they believe they have a fix for it."

LaHood told reporters earlier in the day that Toyota owners should contact their dealer immediately and "exercise caution until repairs can be made."

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LaHood on Tuesday said Toyota was slow to deal with safety problems with its gas pedals, asserting in an interview with the Associated Press that it took government pressure to force the company to recall millions of its most popular vehicles.

LaHood defended his department's handling of the Toyota investigation and said the Japanese automaker was "a little safety deaf" during its probe of the problem. The company was so resistant, LaHood said, that it took a trip from federal safety officials to Japan to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the pedal problems.

"They should have taken it seriously from the very beginning when we first started discussing it with them," LaHood told AP. "Maybe they were a little safety deaf in their North American office until we went to Japan."

"If it had not been for the work of (the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) pushing Toyota to make the recall, traveling to Japan, meeting with the top officials of Toyota in Japan and telling them that their folks in the United States seem to be a little safety deaf when it came to us talking to them, I don't know if the recall would be taking place," LaHood said.

LaHood's remarks were his most pointed since Toyota recalled 2.3 million vehicles in the United States due to concerns over gas pedals that can stick when drivers step on the gas. The Jan. 21 recall followed a separate action in October to recall millions more over problems with pedals catching on floor mats.

Toyota has said it first received a complaint of sticking gas pedals back in 2007 but determined its cars were not at fault, reports CBS News correspondent Dean Reynolds.

Former NHTSA administrator Joan Claybrook said Toyota has long been resistant to regulation.

"I think Toyota has been recalcitrant and very secretive and it does not like to recall vehicles and I think it did everything it could to delay this issue," Claybrook told Reynolds.

"The first line of defense is 'The consumer was wrong, they stepped on the accelerator instead of the brake. It's their fault,'" Claybrook said.

The transportation secretary said the government was considering civil penalties for Toyota but declined to elaborate. NHTSA has fined automakers in the past for delaying a recall. The largest came in 2004, when General Motors paid a $1 million fine for failing to conduct a timely recall to correct a safety defect involving the failure of windshield wipers.

But, "It took a trip from (NHTSA deputy administrator) Ron Medford to Japan to wake them up to the idea that this is a serious issue, it's a serious safety issue," LaHood said. "We're not going to sit by and let these kinds of crashes occur without them taking very, very quick action."

LaHood later clarified his remarks, telling AP that Toyota's North American office took the safety problem seriously but had difficulty convincing their counterparts in Japan about its severity. "It wasn't the case that they weren't listening. It was the case that Japan wasn't listening to North America," LaHood said.

"That's the reason that Ron Medford went to Japan. Because I think he was frustrated that the people at the North American office ... were listening to him but I think he felt that that wasn't really getting across to the folks over in Japan," LaHood said.

Toyota apologized to its customers Monday and announced a fix that will involve inserting a piece of steel about the size of a postage into the gas pedal assembly to address potential excess friction. In rare cases, Toyota says, the friction can cause the pedal to become stuck in the depressed position.

Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA, told reporters Monday that the recalls were an embarrassment for the company but it was acting quickly to address the problem. "We have to redouble our efforts to make sure this doesn't happen again," he said.

Asked for reaction to LaHood's comments to the AP, Toyota said in a statement Tuesday: "Nothing is more important to us than the safety and reliability of the vehicles our customers drive. Secretary LaHood said to us that the soonest possible action would be in the best interests of our customers, and we took his advice very seriously and instituted a recall."

"We are very grateful for his advice and we feel that we have been given a chance to regain our customers' trust," Toyota said.

Federal data show Toyota accelerator complaints have markedly increased in the last two years and totaled nearly 600 in 2009 - facts excluded from sales pitches to customers.

"In the economic downturn they sacrificed quality and now that has come back to bite 'em," new Toyota owner Shirley Marcum told Reynolds.

Beginning in 2003, the government conducted several investigations into reports of unwanted acceleration involving Toyota vehicles but failed to find any evidence that the vehicles were defective. When the government probed reports of floor mats in Lexus vehicles jamming gas pedals, Toyota said there was "no possibility of pedal interference" with the floor mats if they were placed properly and secured.

But a government survey of Lexus owners found dozens of reports of sudden acceleration and evidence that in some crashes owners had pressed hard on the brakes but failed to stop the vehicles. The investigation led Toyota to recall an accessory all-weather floor mat for 55,000 Lexus vehicles in September 2007.

The problems grew last August when a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members were killed in a high-speed crash aboard a 2009 Lexus ES350. The Lexus hit speeds exceeding 120 mph, struck a sport utility vehicle, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames as a family member called 911.

There are the increasing reports of runaway acceleration in Toyota models not currently on the recall list; in addition to the Lexus problems, at least one Sienna has been tied to a fatal accident involving accelerator problems.

In that case, and the Lexus crash last year, suspicion fell on the vehicle's entire electronic system rather than a mechanical problem confined to the pedal - something federal officials are now investigating.

In October, Toyota recalled more than 4 million vehicles to replace floor mats that were suspected of causing accelerators to get stuck, leading to crashes. The recall has since grown to more than 5 million vehicles.

Auto analysts estimate that recalling and repairing millions of cars will cost Toyota at least $900 million, with lost sales amounting to some $155 million a week.

Following the latest recall and Toyota's decision to stop selling those vehicles, LaHood told reporters Monday that Toyota had "done the right thing" and urged car owners to contact their dealers immediately and remain cautious until repairs can be made.

But he defended the department's review of the Toyota case in the interview, arguing that NHTSA had conducted several investigations of the vehicles and pushed Toyota to recall the vehicles. "I'm not going to take a back seat to anybody when it comes to safety," LaHood said.

Underscoring his concern, LaHood said the Toyota recalls "may be the most serious safety issue that we have faced here at DOT" during his tenure. "This is a big deal, this is a big safety issue," LaHood said.

The role of the government and the company in the recalls is drawing scrutiny in Congress. The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee has launched an investigation into the recalls and scheduled a Feb. 10 hearing examining the risk to the public. LaHood and other DOT officials are expected to testify. Committee officials also have asked Yoshi Inaba, chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor North America, to testify and are expected to seek testimony from a consumer or consumer group. Separately, the investigative panel of the House Energy and Commerce Committee is planning a Feb. 25 hearing on the Toyota cases.

Federal safety officials meanwhile widened their investigation of Toyota's sticky gas pedals Wednesday to see if the same problem could exist for other automakers.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has sent a letter to CTS, the Indiana company that made the pedals behind Toyota's recall of millions of vehicles.

The safety agency wants to know more about pedals that CTS made for other auto companies.

CTS says it makes pedals for companies like Honda, Nissan and a small number of Ford vehicles in China.

CTS been adamant that the issues are limited to Toyota alone. Other automakers have also said their pedals are based on different designs and aren't at risk for the same problems
 
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