Orbit IS (circular) rotation. If the machine isn`t spinning your not going to get much correction.
Can you point me to the article where rupes is claiming this?
Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk
- Thread starter nan_wpg
- Start date
Orbit IS (circular) rotation. If the machine isn`t spinning your not going to get much correction.
Can you point me to the article where rupes is claiming this?
Furthermore. If rotation doesn`t correct paint how do you (rupes) explain the rotary polisher?
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Jem7sk --
Thanks for your reply !
I have seen all the different sized pads and for the longest time, only 6 inch pads were the norm and still are in probably all auto body and paint shops..
And of course the reasoning = bigger covers more area so you are done faster, etc...
For my needs in my own shop, I tried the 5-1/4" pads, and found them more to my liking because they were much easier to control, they could get into smaller areas easier, they were easier to clean because of their size to me, and they were less expensive..
Yes, a zillion people will say " those little pads will take longer to do the whatever vehicle, etc., and who knows if they really do?? I dont.. And I dont even care.
When you do this long enough if you ever do this for a living, you may find your own "process" and decide that you rather like it that way..
I still use bigger pads like the 6" guys, but only when I have to deal with something big or really hard to correct like any Airplane Paint or any huge, flat, thing, that will not require me to try to get that bigger footprint into smaller areas of the subject big honking plane, van, etc...
Another thing I just thought of, some guys like to use big pads for correcting everything and then rather than clean them, they just throw them away, because they have just dirtied 60 of them, or they are so full of everything that came off the correction, and they wore them down to where they are pretty much useless anyway..
The types of vehicles you detail all the time, may also help dictate what size pads would be better too..
When I did nothing but all the Germans, Brits, and a few Italian vehicles, the smaller 5" footprint was just better for all those curves, fender bulges, strakes, etc...
Lastly - the bigger pads Will require you to pay even more attention and watch where that bigger pad is touching - all of it - so you do not accidently rub M105, etc., against that beautiful non painted rubber window molding, etc...
The need to tape or not to tape??? This should be another Poll topic...
Dan F
dwaleke
Member
I`ve too have seen Jason Rose of Rupes say that the primary mode of correction on their long throw machines is the oscillating orbit and not the rotating action.
The rotation is the secondary mode of action.
On their gear driven DA the primary mode of correction is the rotation and the secondary mode of action is the oscillating orbit.
It`s in at least one, if not a few, of Rupes videos on their YouTube channel.
I`m paraphrasing here. The words Jason used may be different but the meaning is the same (if you get what I mean).
Sounds like gobbledygook. Oscillating orbit = rotation
The ppl that make claims like this spend very little time behind a buffing wheel is my take from this
dwaleke
Member
Maybe you know more about Jason Rose and his background than I do.
Seemed like he was respected in the industry.
I may not be using the right terminology. The dual action polisher rotates and oscillates. Those two things are not the same thing. I mean it`s in the name "dual action".
Jason may not be right but I have no reason to doubt him and my credentials don`t come close to his. He is selling stuff so it is possible it is BS.
Orbit means to travel in circles (rotation). It`s right here in the Merriam dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orbit
Random orbital (egg shaped) polishers were designed because rotary polishers leave swirl marks and burn paint (easier). Forced rotation machines came around years later because random orbitals weak point are that they stall when too much pressure was applied.
i,thought of that too….. explain,rotary if rotation,isn’t needed…….
but look,through some of the rupes YouTube,videos, specifically the webinar series. The video “differences between gear driven, random, and rotary” they explain pros and cons.
i,don’t,remember specifics, but,I remember that oscillation provided “most” of the cut
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
bad penney --
Well, perhaps they have lots of experience behind a direct drive machine or not, but now, they are -Selling- this new machine and may even work for the Company..
To me, the - 70 - years at a minimum, that Rotary Power has been correcting paint, and is Still doing it today at the manufacturing level, says something, no??
And to think if were not for Porter Cable to make a Sander way, way, back when, where would the random orbital machine for Detailing be today??
I am glad that all the random orbitals are here so more people can try them out and do their own version of Detailing their vehicles.. The more the merrier !
Yes, it will take longer to master the Rotary, but it is not impossible, and only if it is used incorrectly does it leave holograms, swirls, etc., in any paintwork..
If the defects are -Left- in the paintwork, it is the Detailer who chose to ignore they were in the paintwork (and remove them) who is to blame for this, not the machine..
This little discussion between the two will probably never go away, and I am ok with that too..
It just does not have to be a Contest, like I win, you lose.. Dan F
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Oscillation -
noun
1.
movement back and forth at a regular speed.
"the natural oscillation of a spring"
I have not seen that Webinar.. But you have to just remember that if it is sponsored by people who do NOT make Rotary machines, well, then who would they be rooting for ?
It is All good !
Dan F
J. Martin
New member
I`ll be that guy and say that this topic shouldn`t be so complicated, unless it changes what you intend to purchase or use in a certain setting.
I`ve always viewed rotary polishers (to include a simple corded drill with a 3" pad attachment) as a generally more focused, deliberate and aggressive approach to surface correction. Meaning, you typically start with it and expect to accomplish its core function in the name of efficiency or bulk-area correction...knowing there`s more to do in the way of technique after.
The D/A (to me) has always been what a professional follows-up with, if fortunate enough to own and fully-utilize a common rotary polisher (e.g., Makita, Dewalt, etc.).
The part where I feel many get on tangents with these tools has to do with the proliferation of varying-spec D/A polishers available (such as 8/12/15/21mm-throw, and gear-driven). If you only have a Porter XP with that 8mm throw, then it is hopefully regarded as a compromised `everything` tool in your correction process. That`s coming from someone who used that very tool for 5 years before adding to the arsenal.
Historically/typically-speaking, if you don`t/didn`t have the budget, experience or requisite workload to get a rotary and complimentary D/A, then you had to master that rotary...or plan to take longer with that 8mm D/A with your correction. Nowadays, you can find a 15mm D/A that skirts that fine line between most tools and their general function. But that doesn`t make it the best tool; it just complicates the discussion.
I think the best investment these days is to understand the capability, efficiency and drawback of a given tool...paired with a given compound, applied to a given project`s substrate. If I had the money, I`d buy an UDOS and call it a day. You will always find someone like Brian at Apex or Sandro at CCAD who can deliver 99% perfection with any given tool...but that person has the miles and commitment in deep reserves to weigh all factors when employing that tool.
I`ve always viewed rotary polishers (to include a simple corded drill with a 3" pad attachment) as a generally more focused, deliberate and aggressive approach to surface correction. Meaning, you typically start with it and expect to accomplish its core function in the name of efficiency or bulk-area correction...knowing there`s more to do in the way of technique after.
The D/A (to me) has always been what a professional follows-up with, if fortunate enough to own and fully-utilize a common rotary polisher (e.g., Makita, Dewalt, etc.).
The part where I feel many get on tangents with these tools has to do with the proliferation of varying-spec D/A polishers available (such as 8/12/15/21mm-throw, and gear-driven). If you only have a Porter XP with that 8mm throw, then it is hopefully regarded as a compromised `everything` tool in your correction process. That`s coming from someone who used that very tool for 5 years before adding to the arsenal.
Historically/typically-speaking, if you don`t/didn`t have the budget, experience or requisite workload to get a rotary and complimentary D/A, then you had to master that rotary...or plan to take longer with that 8mm D/A with your correction. Nowadays, you can find a 15mm D/A that skirts that fine line between most tools and their general function. But that doesn`t make it the best tool; it just complicates the discussion.
I think the best investment these days is to understand the capability, efficiency and drawback of a given tool...paired with a given compound, applied to a given project`s substrate. If I had the money, I`d buy an UDOS and call it a day. You will always find someone like Brian at Apex or Sandro at CCAD who can deliver 99% perfection with any given tool...but that person has the miles and commitment in deep reserves to weigh all factors when employing that tool.