Accumulator
Well-known member
Ya know...I bet that`s a gonna be a good overall ownership experience, bottom of barrel or not. How long do you plan to keep it?
RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.
- Thread starter Dan
- Start date
Ya know...I bet that`s a gonna be a good overall ownership experience, bottom of barrel or not. How long do you plan to keep it?
Dan
Well-known member
Dan- No, I *haven`t* driven an electric. I agree that they have a lot to offer and I`m absolutely *NOT* in the "internal combustion only" camp. But with all the electric cars featuring...technology...that I won`t have, I doubt that an electric is in my future. Heh heh, the `08 Crown Vic is quite possibly ("probably" even?) the latest model-year vehicle we`ll ever own...
Oh, and I also agree with you on the smoothness issue (my Jag`s V12..).
Heh heh, sounds like I made an impression with my DBW tales of woe! At least the DBW in the Crown Vic is OK...but we`ll see how it is when (heh heh, not "if") I finally soup it up...which gives me another reason to keep putting that off (IME nothing messes up a reliable stock vehicle quite like good intentions and an open checkbook
).
That smoothness and gobs of torque is what I love about electric. One of the reasons I like the leaf is that is is just a plain car with a few extra do-dads. I don`t even lilke NAV in a car, my phone is much better. I have to have "normal" AC controls too, TBH I don`t even like the kind with a thermostat, its always blowing hot air when I want cold and the cold air when I want hot, etc.
No plans for the Leaf really, only really bought it because they were giving them away, I got something like 30% off MSRP, plus the federal tax credit, made it almost as cheap as its gas brother, the Versa. Funny thing is my wife thought I was crazy for getting it, now she has claimed it as hers.
Maybe there will be conversion kits soon enough? An electric Crown Vic would be fun.
jatleson
New member
I`m going through the German car pain as I type. My 2010 335 xDrive is at 90,000 miles. Time for some serious maintenance. About $2000 in parts and labor for needed repairs at my indy shop (and about a 1000 in additional go fast goodies) are about to be installed.
If I was shopping for a new car...I would probably go American. BUT, there is nothing new on the road that drives like the older german cars. To me, all the new 3 series, C classes, a4`s feel the same as a Camry or Accord. I`m sure Porsche`s or the new Alfa`s are nice, but they are pricey. My e90 feels more solid, drives better and once all the repairs and goodies are installed, will keep up with any of them. The switch from hydraulic to electric steering completely changed the characteristics of a car. We won`t discuss the availability of manual transmissions.
Having to spend 3,000 - 4,000 for major repairs once every 2 - 3 years and keeping up with regular maintenance is less than having car payments on a new entry level European car. To get my daily driver today would be a 50k+ BMW.
If cars aren`t important to you...it is hard to justify spending anything more than a car payment a month, and there is nothing wrong with that. I (like most of us here) like cars, and I`m willing to pay to keep them properly maintained and running. They don`t make them like they used too.
If I was shopping for a new car...I would probably go American. BUT, there is nothing new on the road that drives like the older german cars. To me, all the new 3 series, C classes, a4`s feel the same as a Camry or Accord. I`m sure Porsche`s or the new Alfa`s are nice, but they are pricey. My e90 feels more solid, drives better and once all the repairs and goodies are installed, will keep up with any of them. The switch from hydraulic to electric steering completely changed the characteristics of a car. We won`t discuss the availability of manual transmissions.
Having to spend 3,000 - 4,000 for major repairs once every 2 - 3 years and keeping up with regular maintenance is less than having car payments on a new entry level European car. To get my daily driver today would be a 50k+ BMW.
If cars aren`t important to you...it is hard to justify spending anything more than a car payment a month, and there is nothing wrong with that. I (like most of us here) like cars, and I`m willing to pay to keep them properly maintained and running. They don`t make them like they used too.
This is kinda where I`m at. Just keep paying to maintain and nothing really seems to tick enough boxes for me to warrant a switch.
I daily an E91 and love the way it drives. No weird creaks, rattles, etc. Rides smooth enough. Lots of space. X-drive means grip in the snowy months here too.
I`ve been in newer American cars... they`re still just so far behind the Germans in build quality. Americans like cheap things though. It`s a very different market from Europe.
mobiledynamics
New member
Full disclamer - I have not read every response on this thread just short of the OP.
To sum it up - GREAT to own During Warranty.
If you keep it outside that, it boils down to 2 things. Wrench yourself or pay through the nose with a Indy. Parts+Labor IMO make it a non keeper if you ~don`t wrench~ yourself...
These days, with quite bit of mechanical things that you MAY DIY outside of warranty, you`re still looking for a least a Bejamin and a 1/2 to have a INDY hook up his comp, just do finish that battery change, etc...
Just like in the recent thread about tires and longevity, IMO, modern cars are just 4 year keepers....well, at least with the brands that are in my fleet..
To sum it up - GREAT to own During Warranty.
If you keep it outside that, it boils down to 2 things. Wrench yourself or pay through the nose with a Indy. Parts+Labor IMO make it a non keeper if you ~don`t wrench~ yourself...
These days, with quite bit of mechanical things that you MAY DIY outside of warranty, you`re still looking for a least a Bejamin and a 1/2 to have a INDY hook up his comp, just do finish that battery change, etc...
Just like in the recent thread about tires and longevity, IMO, modern cars are just 4 year keepers....well, at least with the brands that are in my fleet..
Justins00ss
Active member
I really don`t have a hand in this discussion because I have only owned American cars for now.
4 Camaros of different years
1 Saturn
1 Cougar XR7
1 GTO
1 Grand Prix GT
2 Silverados
I would say up until recently besides normal wear and tear from high miles they have all been good. My 08 Silverado just cost me 2k back in the spring due to a DOD lifter failure. Normally I would have just torn it down and fixed it myself but with business now I have no time. So I sent it to my buddies shop(slowhawk Performance) to do a DOD lifter delete.
With that being said my wife is dead set on getting into an Audi A5 2.0T. Probably a 14 or newer. I have a few clients with different model Audi`s and they all have said as long as its a newer model then you should be fine. My worry is the fact that I can`t work on it. Unlike all the vehicles I currently own.
4 Camaros of different years
1 Saturn
1 Cougar XR7
1 GTO
1 Grand Prix GT
2 Silverados
I would say up until recently besides normal wear and tear from high miles they have all been good. My 08 Silverado just cost me 2k back in the spring due to a DOD lifter failure. Normally I would have just torn it down and fixed it myself but with business now I have no time. So I sent it to my buddies shop(slowhawk Performance) to do a DOD lifter delete.
With that being said my wife is dead set on getting into an Audi A5 2.0T. Probably a 14 or newer. I have a few clients with different model Audi`s and they all have said as long as its a newer model then you should be fine. My worry is the fact that I can`t work on it. Unlike all the vehicles I currently own.
mobiledynamics
New member
Electrics not my cup of tea. Had a open pocket of time one weekend, so I grabbed some #3 wire, conduit, etc - ran a full line to a spot of a EVSE charger.
I then got to test drive the Tesla and evse was just not for me. It felt and sounded s0uLless....
I then got to test drive the Tesla and evse was just not for me. It felt and sounded s0uLless....
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Hey Dan !
I have only had 5 Bimmers, 3 were brand new and 2 were used but in very good condition with great maintenance records..
Have always loved the way the older Bimmers drove - you know - back when they were really "The Ultimate Driving Machine" ..
But being German cars, they have always had to be absolutely maintained or things will fail..
That is why I had to really be on top of the different Inspections they required, but lucky for me, I found the absolute best Independent Shop in all of the huge Seattle, etc., area, and that is where I took them and also where I ended up working as their in-house Detailer..
I have come to the conclusion that all German cars are engineered in a way that just requires much more expensive work be done to them to keep them going.
Some of the more expensive models - "M", "AMG","RS","GT3",, etc., are mostly hand-built detuned racing engine versions, and they require even more specialized maintenance to keep them going reliably..
I believe all their marques have a lot of horror stories that have been happening at a more alarming rate as they get more and more electronic gizmotics alone..
Totally on-board with everything you have said regarding all things from Germany and the Honda/Acura vehicles especially and I have had a few of as well..
It IS amazing how Japanese vehicles all go on forever with very little required to keep them happy.. I love that about them, but then you have to be ok with the trade off`s..
I read that the last few years for Honda alone have not been so good with some models, and it looks like they are slipping up on quality control/assurance, where they used to be really good at this.. Too bad..
Believe the number of Japanese vehicles I have had for my family including the daughters is over 6, ( Honda, Acura, Lexus) most of them also brand new, and the rest very good older models in great shape.. Hard to beat the reliability and simple less complicated and reliable engineering idea of the Japanese...
Have for awhile thought about getting my last car for the rest of my life and looked very seriously at Audi, because I have Detailed so many and their Interiors alone are to die for, but I could not for the life of me, get any Audi Dealerships to honestly tell me yes or no - does the new Audi 2.0 engines burn or use a lot of oil ??? No one at Audi including the Factory would answer this question, except to say "It is ok for the car to use oil and that is normal, etc... " Really???
I still don`t know but have to assume that since its and probably all their engines are turbocharged, there is an opportunity to burn a lot oil if the engineering is not that great down there..
Now I also know that you can have a turbocharged engine and NOT burn or use oil at all ,because I had one in 1984 - a new Buick Grand National with the 3.8L Turbocharged V6, and that thing ran like the wind and used no oil ever... And it was made by GM !!!!
So I said goodbye to the Audi dealer for that reason alone - I did not want to have to carry 8-13 quarts of oil with me to go to San Antonio, Texas and back (4,000 mile round trip) assuming it was going to burn a quart every 3-500 miles... How dumb is that ???
Mercedes Benz - absolutely Beautiful, awesome paint, interior, rocket sleds that do not handle so great... Love them, Detailed over 100, most of them Jet Black, and while they are so nice, I just cannot get over how fast they depreciate, because of their reliability I assume..
Anything AMG are especially nice, especially the E63AMG of earlier years..
Hate the newer model shapes, they went all long and rounded and reminded me of some sort of insect..
I now live where there will never be a BMW dealership or probably even an independent German car shop, so I am pretty much not even going to ever think about buying another one used or not, but am still a member of the BMWCCA for 17 years now.. The magazine is still a great read and I love looking at the Classified Auto ads..
Guess a guy can dream, eh???Dan F
My M3 was a money pit and the most towed vehicle I owned. All Compounded by the fact that the dealer sucked. Too bad because I loved that car. It scared me away from bmw from 1988 until I took the plunger with a 2017 5 Series. This time is for the wife at her choosing and a lease so I can walk away. Btw dealer has 125 loaner cars (good or bad thing). One loaner is an i8. I’ll be asking for that lol. Mega dealer - my first experience with this one.
My Supra turbo, 300zx, Subaru Legacy, acura, 5 Infiniti’s and various lexus were all solid performers and trouble free except when I decided
To mod the Supra and Z. I killed those. My fault.
Saab expensive maintenance out of warranty. Had a 87 9000 turbo and a
95 9000cs both great year round drivers. The 87 was a rocket. Both roomy and comfortable.
My Supra turbo, 300zx, Subaru Legacy, acura, 5 Infiniti’s and various lexus were all solid performers and trouble free except when I decided
To mod the Supra and Z. I killed those. My fault.
Saab expensive maintenance out of warranty. Had a 87 9000 turbo and a
95 9000cs both great year round drivers. The 87 was a rocket. Both roomy and comfortable.
Nizmo
New member
Pretty sure it was the 1st and 2nd gen TSI and TFSI engines that loved consuming oil. The current gen EA888 engines seem to do better. It`s hard to tell this early on, but I do not consume any oil in my 17` GTI with the 2.0. But, I broke it in hard and changed the factory fill out at 1400 miles. The oil filter did have fine metal shavings/particles in it, but that`s normal. I think alot of the oil consumption issues was lack of proper care. I mean recommending 10K oil changes on a turbocharged direct injection engine, that crazy IMO. Dealers were using God knows what oil in them and if you bought the recommended Castrol 5w40 VW502, it was really sub standard compared to their 0w40 (and some people can`t fathom 0wX oil...). Could not hold up to 5K let alone 10K. Remember the previous gen 1.8T`s sludging up? Lack of maintenance was the case there. The latest gen of 2.0 and 1.8 turbo engines have definitely come a long ways.
Dan
Well-known member
I have a thing for 9000s. They were amazing cars for the time (reliability aside). They were so big, roomy, and comfortable. Five grown ups could ride in comfort and with room for their luggage. Awesome driving dyamics, decent raw handling numbers. I used to love sucking tailgaters into high speed turns with a 92 9000 I had.
Actually this thread made me think of quite possibly the best car I ever had, a 2004 IS300. A japanese clone of a 3 series. Not a perfect clone, but man, close enough for me. That straight six was awesome, as was the manual transmission. Sold it for a Prius...FML.
Dan
Well-known member
My current TFSI burns nothing over the oil change interval. I did change the oil at 1k and we take it very easy when the motor is cold. Also cool it down after extended high speed runs.
I think you are right, just rampant abuse causes most of the issues. I love watching my neighbors flooring their ice cold cars. You can almost hear the car screaming in agony.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I`m still enjoying this thread 
With all the ownership experiences here it`s really interesting!
They never did figure out why the A8 uses so much oil...done it since new. Accumulatorette has always liked it so much that a replacement wasn`t gonna happen, let alone over that.
Heh heh...if not for [the individual who bought the local Benz/Volvo/Jag/etc. franchises] my wife and I probably wouldn`t be driving Audis. Gotta have people you trust.
Only had two Hondas, both first-gen CRXes, but the first one was a headache, some kind of vapor-lock-type issue that they just couldn`t sort out. The second was a Si, and that car was pretty great for a FWD car of that era, overall it was a lot better than the POS MKVII LSC I traded it for.
With all the ownership experiences here it`s really interesting!They never did figure out why the A8 uses so much oil...done it since new. Accumulatorette has always liked it so much that a replacement wasn`t gonna happen, let alone over that.
Heh heh...if not for [the individual who bought the local Benz/Volvo/Jag/etc. franchises] my wife and I probably wouldn`t be driving Audis. Gotta have people you trust.
Only had two Hondas, both first-gen CRXes, but the first one was a headache, some kind of vapor-lock-type issue that they just couldn`t sort out. The second was a Si, and that car was pretty great for a FWD car of that era, overall it was a lot better than the POS MKVII LSC I traded it for.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Dan,
I loved that story about your `92 9000 !
I have only Detailed 3 Saabs ever and loved them all ..
Totally spot on regarding your `04 IS300.. It`s a Lexus, it`s never going to break..
What is funny to me, is that when I went out to purchase my first new Bimmer in 2001, I drove the `01 Lexus IS300, and while it was absolutely beautiful inside and out, it was not as responsive or as road worthy (in my opinion), as the 2001 BMW 3 Series in any of the configurations, so I bought the Jet Black 3 Series and was absolutely in Heaven - until I was at the Dealer one day for an oil change and I saw my first 2002 BMW Z-3 M Coupe roll off the truck..
Yeah, the rest was History !
That little 2-seater was an absolute ROCKET with the 6speed and S54 M3 individual throttle bodies Inline 6... It was so fast and comfortable, I drove it non-stop Sacramento to Phoenix and was not even tired when I got to a motel... I wish I could have kept that car !!!
Dan F
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Justin --
I loved reading about all the vehicles you have owned.
Tell me what is a DOD lifter update ?
You will LOVE the Audi A5 - one of my favorite models to Detail...
Just the right size, the most beautiful Interior and seats... Love them !
Speaking of not being able to work on them, when I was Detailing at EastSide Bavarian, Issaquah, WA., the absolute best shop ever - I had many conversations with the mechanics there, and saw a zillion Audi`s come in for service, etc..
One day, they were removing the entire engine and pretty much the entire compartment because Audi likes to put a zillion things in there anyway, and removed the engine and transmission to change --- the timing belt ----- !!! It was located behind the engine instead of the traditional front of the engine...
He said it was 40 hours labor to remove, and 40 hours labor to re-install all those parts... Yikes !!!!
I saw really nice young people there with not so old Audi Wagons, those beautiful small black ones, remember ?, that came in, and found out that the cost to repair something was more than they could ever afford, so they had to just let the car go.. Sad to see that happen to anyone..
Again, to me, it is the price one pays for "German engineering".. Love it, but you have to afford it, or lease it and get rid of it at end of lease..
Dan F
Dan
Well-known member
Dan,
I loved that story about your `92 9000 !
I have only Detailed 3 Saabs ever and loved them all ..
Totally spot on regarding your `04 IS300.. It`s a Lexus, it`s never going to break..
What is funny to me, is that when I went out to purchase my first new Bimmer in 2001, I drove the `01 Lexus IS300, and while it was absolutely beautiful inside and out, it was not as responsive or as road worthy (in my opinion), as the 2001 BMW 3 Series in any of the configurations, so I bought the Jet Black 3 Series and was absolutely in Heaven - until I was at the Dealer one day for an oil change and I saw my first 2002 BMW Z-3 M Coupe roll off the truck..
Yeah, the rest was History !
It was so fast and comfortable, I drove it non-stop Sacramento to Phoenix and was not even tired when I got to a motel... I wish I could have kept that car !!!
Dan F
The same gen BMW was absolutely a better handling car. The Lexus was a softer ride for sure, the key was to not drive them back to back if you wanted to fool yourself..lol. I had an E36 I loved as well, actually sold it way too soon because Carmax offered me more than I paid for it, and I jumped on that deal. Ran out and bought a 98 Integra GSR. That was a good mix of fun and reliability too, but I`m 6`3 and was super cramped inside. Carmax made me an awesome offer on that car, so off it went too. Z3`s are awesome cars, especially the M.
These days I really love a crisp handling car, but I can`t deal with a rough riding car. The Nissan dealership here is giving away brand new 2016 Altima SRs for 15k, about 17k-ish OTD. I drove one thinking I`d replace the Passat with it. Holy crap, that car was the worst riding POS this side of a slammed tuner car. I drove the non sport version, it wasn`t bad, but the deal wasn`t as good.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Hey Nizmo !
How you been, man ?
Thanks for your reply -
You broke in your GTI almost to the BMW M specs ! Early oil changes, and back when I had my M Coupe it was 7 liters of the Euro Castrol 10w-60, and I changed it in the 3k range always..
Another smart thing BMW did back then in `02 was to warn the driver if the oil was not up to the correct temperature before revving it higher..
I had always known that one never runs up the rpm when the engine is cold - ever -, so this was exactly like I have been anyway..
Always had people tell me - get on it - when I gave them a ride somewhere, and I always said NO, the oil is not up to temps yet, and they just looked at me like I was from outer space or something..
Good to hear that Audi has hopefully gotten past their huge oil consumption life..
I just did not like them telling me that " Oil consumption in the 2.0 L Turbo is Normal"....
While we all know that eventually there will be parts in the turbo alone that will let oil past, etc., and all the extra wear of the other parts that are lubricated and pressurized, may start letting oil past, I would prefer to not have to always stop and add oil because it is using it..
Didn`t grow up with engines doing that, am not going to defer to carrying quarts of oil around with me to take that trip...
Dan F
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Dan --
Yeah, I drove the BMW first, and then went to the Lexus dealer and drove the IS300.. No, I thought to myself, its beautiful and all but is like driving an Appliance or something..
No offense to any Lexus owners intended.. The Lexus people were so disappointed that I did not like their car over the 3 Series..
You made some great deals, Dan ! I know nothing about Carmax but may have to investigate someday..
Also had a mint low mileage 1991 Acura Integra GS and loved that car so much ! Very sporty with header, tokico shocks, springs, cat back exhaust, etc.. This thing even came with the original wheels and tires, truly a great, sporty car for that time.. Awesome reliability...
Your GSR was the sum of all the others so much better put together ! I would have loved to drive one..
I agree, you would be too tall of it even with the seat all the way back and reclined some..
Dan F
Nizmo
New member
Hey Nizmo !
How you been, man ?
Thanks for your reply -
You broke in your GTI almost to the BMW M specs ! Early oil changes, and back when I had my M Coupe it was 7 liters of the Euro Castrol 10w-60, and I changed it in the 3k range always..
Another smart thing BMW did back then in `02 was to warn the driver if the oil was not up to the correct temperature before revving it higher..
I had always known that one never runs up the rpm when the engine is cold - ever -, so this was exactly like I have been anyway..
Always had people tell me - get on it - when I gave them a ride somewhere, and I always said NO, the oil is not up to temps yet, and they just looked at me like I was from outer space or something..
Good to hear that Audi has hopefully gotten past their huge oil consumption life..
I just did not like them telling me that " Oil consumption in the 2.0 L Turbo is Normal"....
While we all know that eventually there will be parts in the turbo alone that will let oil past, etc., and all the extra wear of the other parts that are lubricated and pressurized, may start letting oil past, I would prefer to not have to always stop and add oil because it is using it..
Didn`t grow up with engines doing that, am not going to defer to carrying quarts of oil around with me to take that trip...
Dan F
Hey Dan,
Been a long year or so! Constantly on the road for work and it seem there`s no time for the cars. Bought the GTI back in February and it still doesn`t even have 5K on it yet! Crossing my fingers that changes soon.
For the first 600 miles I didn`t run it too hard, but some decent revs going up the mountain and a high vacuum load in gear down. Supposed to be the best break-in method. After about 1000 miles it was game on. Traction is an issue for 1st gear in sport mode I can tell you that! On The flip-side MPG is phenomenal; 36-40 is not far outta reach driving conservatively on the back country roads I travel. The new 2.0TSI is really a gem of an engine IMO. Can`t wait till the warranty runs out so I can tune it. 400hp is easily obtainable, but since I bought the 6 speed manual, a new clutch would be in order. Apparently they`re not too strong "out of the box." Right now experimenting with an E85/93 octane blend. Around E20/25 is what I`m running and it runs alot smoother. People are reporting data from the same mix and it doesn`t pull as much timing. I figure it`s keeping the knock sensor happy. It won`t be driven as much in the winter though. We have a Jeep KK for the snow and my beater S10 for the other ugly days.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Nizmo -
Wow you have been really busy !
Sounds like you did the right process for breaking in your 2.0 GTI - I really like their shapes and looked at them back when I was married and life was good..
I am glad to hear it does not use oil ! And your mileage is amazing too !
I drove one - it was an R32.. It was blazing fast, but sat really low and you felt like all the bumps and heard the road noise really loud.
It had big twin pipes out the back and they only made that model for 1 or 2 years, I believe..
I still like them and the new GTI and of course the Golf R..
When I first looked at them a few years ago, as I said earlier, I could not get happy with the Plaid seats, Im just too old for that..
Sorry.. I may have to go by the VW dealership in Folsom some time and see what`s up..
Well, I also have an `09 Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 in Black with around 36k miles of strictly highway driving from here to Texas and back..
It has the 5.7L Hemi and a big 3" cat back exhaust with a different muffler.. The original muffler was almost 3 feet long and weighed a ton..
Will never get a good price for the Jeep because at least here, they discount the crap out of new Jeeps so low, no one will ever want to buy a used one when a new one is so inexpensive..
Too bad because my Black one has perfect, coated paint and full clear bra in front, almost 1/2 the hood, mirrors, door edges, door cups, and absolutely 0 rock chips.. No door dings either..
The 2009 was the last model they made that was more along the traditional look for Jeep Grand Cherokees, and the Window Sticker says Lifetime Powertrain Warranty..
It has never had 1 one, uno, problem, and I run 14-15 hours straight when I drive it to Tejas, before I stop for the night, then get up the next morning and repeat the process.. It has never been off-road..
I just changed the 16 sparkplugs and they were not really that worn and none showed any evidence of oil, fouling, etc... It also uses no oil - ever -..
Dan F