Truth or pat on the back?

[blk45]

I have had this discussion with some fellow detailers and thought I would get some other opinions on it. On all of the detail forums, when people post pics of their work, it seems like there are just a bunch of that person`s friends that post and tell the thread starter how great his work is. That is the way that it should be, except that a lot of the times, there are obviously things that are missed, or just a job that is not well done. If it is obvious in the chosen "glamour shots", I can only imagine what it really looks like in real life. I`m not talking about the jobs where the customer didn`t want to pay for full corrections. I understand that can`t be helped. You aren`t going to do work that you aren`t getting paid for. The question is, when people post their work on the forums, do they want constructive criticism and recommendations on how to improve their work, or are they just looking for a bunch of people to "pat them on the back" and tell them how "good" of a job they did? Obviously, there will be different takes on this, so I`m curious to hear people`s opinions. The drawback to pointing out mistakes, is that some people get offended by it and think that you are just picking on them. The idea behind these forums is to learn and become a better detailer, so shouldn`t we be looking for honest opinions and suggestions from our fellow detailers versus just an "atta boy"? Maybe when people start a "detailing showcase" (or whatever that forum calls it), they can mention if they are looking for suggestions to help them improve, so that other members know that they are open to respectful and helpful suggestions. It stinks to work really hard on a job and then have someone point something out, but it may just be that you normally don`t pay attention to whatever they are pointing out and once you have it brought to your attention, you will start to do it, making you a "better" detailer. Or someone might notice the results that you have are the ones they used to get when using that product a certain way, but since then, they have figured out a better process or "trick" to achieve better results.

Thoughts?

If this is the wrong forum, please feel free to move it to the appropriate one.

[JohnHenry]

Great question, Eric.

I have mixed feelings... I really enjoy seeing the showcase posts and would hate to have anyone dissuaded from showing their work. I learn an awful lot from reading about the process used and any special problems encountered.

But I understand that most of you guys are at a very different level than I am. I`m sure you get bored reading the "great job!" posts in response to mediocre work.

I think, as you pointed out, the respectful and helpful aspects are key. I guess the problem is that I, for one, can be pretty blunt and easily offend where that was not the intent. I don`t know... tough call.

Regards,
Jay

[JohnHenry]

By the way, my friend, it`s midnight on Friday night and we`re doing this. Pretty freakin` pathetic, huh?

[Redwings97]

Since I am still learning how to "detail", constructive criticism would not bother me at all. Personally I would rather read that, than "job looks great". But a pat on the back from the true detailers on this site, make me feel good about what I am doing as hobby. It keeps me going. Unfortunately with posting pictures, only the detailer himself can tell - just how good the job actually is.

Pictures can be deceiving with any small adjustment to camera angle and without a tripod remaining completely in place, it is hard to show true correction photos. In a detail with correction, it is almost impossible to take photos of every panel throughout the entire detail because it really is, time consuming. Most of the time I will take photos of some panels to show some correction and then put the camera away. So you guys just have trust that I finished the job the same way as the photos showed. If I didn`t and took short cuts, then I am not only lying to myself and my customer, but to the guys on this board for whom I trust will give their honest opinion about my work.

[Beemerboy]

My take is that when we post pics its to show off our work and tell about the process, so that the rest of the viewers can learn from it...Do we want an "at a boy" heck yea.

I really don`t think that the pics do anything in most cases to show the true out come of the detail, unless you are super great at photography..seems like most of us are not..

Getting to core of the conversation, I like to complement the poster about the effort and work, but also put in some constructive criticism if I see something that could help improve the out come. After all detailing is a constant process of learning, it is for me.

Example is some time back a member posts his detail work, paint in the pics looked great. However the wheel wells where not cleaned or dressed..Maybe this was an area that he didn`t know to clean, didn`t think it was important, etc...There was a couple of members that pointed it out along with the at a boys...and talked about how to do it. That`s the part of DC that I like..we can all learn from each other.

I learn something here almost every time I log in!

[Pander5]

Good point, original post and comments. I guard my comments most of the time so as not to offend. If I see something in pictures that isn`t as good as I might have expected from the process the user described I might ask a question politely. That way I`m offering what I might have done but in a way that simply asks the detailer to further qualify his approach and explain maybe why he chose the process he used. Pictures as we all know don`t show what it`s like in person and what it was like to work on and the conditions at the time. I give that consideration.

I will invariably offer kudos nonetheless. I appreciate what the detailer did to get any results worth posting in pics. We all know it is work and we expend a bit of effort to get any results. Plus I appreciate anyone sharing their work in pics. I like the photos.

[Mindflux]

I got railed on over on Autopia for asking a `well respected` detailer why he clayed the vehicle without rinsing it first. He had gone over it with his wash mitt and was using the soapy water that came from the mitt to clay. This was on a new Nissan GT-R, to boot.

I try and call them when I see them but often get harped on about it.

[JaredPointer]

I got railed on over on Autopia for asking a `well respected` detailer why he clayed the vehicle without rinsing it first. He had gone over it with his wash mitt and was using the soapy water that came from the mitt to clay. This was on a new Nissan GT-R, to boot.

I try and call them when I see them but often get harped on about it.

I`ve done that before when I knew I was going to be doing a several step polish. Don`t see anything wrong with it. However, I have since been informed that car was as a lube is an improper lubricant.

Nothing wrong with letting someone know what they are missing. Chances are they might not know.

[Mindflux]

I`ve done that before when I knew I was going to be doing a several step polish. Don`t see anything wrong with it. However, I have since been informed that car was as a lube is an improper lubricant.

Nothing wrong with letting someone know what they are missing. Chances are they might not know.

No I agree if you are planning to polish after the fact, no big deal. No polishing was done after claying for this Nissan GT-R over on Autopia.

P.S Car wash is more than an acceptable lube. Per Zaino, Meguiars and .. well darn near everyone.

[blk45]

Great question, Eric.

I have mixed feelings... I really enjoy seeing the showcase posts and would hate to have anyone dissuaded from showing their work. I learn an awful lot from reading about the process used and any special problems encountered.

I don`t want anyone to be dissuaded either. Quite the opposite actually. I think we all can learn from people`s processes. I know that I surely do.

But I understand that most of you guys are at a very different level than I am. I`m sure you get bored reading the "great job!" posts in response to mediocre work.

Not at all Jay. Most of the guys that I know, including some of the most well respected detailers on the boards, still enjoy looking at other`s work and remember that, at some point, they were just starting as well. It also gives them an opportunity to offer info on a product or process that will be helpful. The same way that they were helped out when they were first starting out, and let`s them "give back" to the community. I have been very lucky to have been on the receiving end of some great advice from some great detailers.

I think, as you pointed out, the respectful and helpful aspects are key. I guess the problem is that I, for one, can be pretty blunt and easily offend where that was not the intent. I don`t know... tough call.

Regards,
Jay

That is the drawback. That is why I mentioned that maybe the thread starter can let everyone know if he is looking for suggestions. If not, you play it conservative so as not to offend. I`m the same way Jay. I don`t beat around the bush, I jump right in! Sometimes, it is not well received, so I have to watch not only what I say, but how I say it.

Since I am still learning how to "detail", constructive criticism would not bother me at all. Personally I would rather read that, than "job looks great". But a pat on the back from the true detailers on this site, make me feel good about what I am doing as hobby. It keeps me going. Unfortunately with posting pictures, only the detailer himself can tell - just how good the job actually is.

Agreed 100%

Pictures can be deceiving with any small adjustment to camera angle and without a tripod remaining completely in place, it is hard to show true correction photos. In a detail with correction, it is almost impossible to take photos of every panel throughout the entire detail because it really is, time consuming. Most of the time I will take photos of some panels to show some correction and then put the camera away. So you guys just have trust that I finished the job the same way as the photos showed. If I didn`t and took short cuts, then I am not only lying to myself and my customer, but to the guys on this board for whom I trust will give their honest opinion about my work.

Well said!

Getting to core of the conversation, I like to complement the poster about the effort and work, but also put in some constructive criticism if I see something that could help improve the out come. After all detailing is a constant process of learning, it is for me.

Very good point. I think the "criticism" would be much better received if it was following a compliment or two. And as I said before, presented in a respectful and helpful manner.

Example is some time back a member posts his detail work, paint in the pics looked great. However the wheel wells where not cleaned or dressed..Maybe this was an area that he didn`t know to clean, didn`t think it was important, etc...There was a couple of members that pointed it out along with the at a boys...and talked about how to do it. That`s the part of DC that I like..we can all learn from each other.

I learn something here almost every time I log in!

Perfect example. When I first started out, I can`t count the times that I thought the car was perfect and had someone else point out something that I missed. Once it is brought to your attention, it`s like "how in the heck did I miss that!" Wheel wells were one of those things.

Good point, original post and comments. I guard my comments most of the time so as not to offend. If I see something in pictures that isn`t as good as I might have expected from the process the user described I might ask a question politely. That way I`m offering what I might have done but in a way that simply asks the detailer to further qualify his approach and explain maybe why he chose the process he used. Pictures as we all know don`t show what it`s like in person and what it was like to work on and the conditions at the time. I give that consideration.

I will invariably offer kudos nonetheless. I appreciate what the detailer did to get any results worth posting in pics. We all know it is work and we expend a bit of effort to get any results. Plus I appreciate anyone sharing their work in pics. I like the photos.

Great points as well. Yes, there is always something that the poster can be "praised" for. I too appreciate people taking the time to post pics and do write ups. I sure as heck don`t have the patience to do it. And we all love pics!


As far as the photo comments.......I agree with all of them. This wasn`t really about the manipulation of photos that Gearhead posted about. That is another can of worms. As mentioned here, it is more or less impossible for people to take "true" photos with all of the variables being exactly the same, before and after. I just meant when someone posts a photo and it is obvious that they missed something on a "full" detail.


So basically, if the thread starter doesn`t say they are looking for "cc", we should tread lightly and offer suggestions preferably after a compliment or two. If they ask for "cc", let them have it! j/k

Thanks for all of the replies guys! I will say this. Of all the boards that I go to, this one seems to have the best group of members as far as being helpful and respectful and keeping the drama to a minimum. Kudos to the members, Troy for a great board (and just being a great guy!) and to the mods for doing a great job!

[sal329]

Great points. I would hope anytime I post a pic I get some constructive critisism not attacks but a mature discussion would be what I want.

[Old Pirate]

Great Thread there blk45!....My main concern is that my customer is happy and loves the finish on their ride. I`m not the best in picture taking but some day i hope that i can post better photo`s for other folks to see my work.

[ajnavo61490]

i always enjoy looking at other peoples work and commenting on it, whether it is a complement or constructive criticism.

i also enjoy feedback for my details, both complements or constructive criticism. i want to kno how im doing and am willing to listen to opinions of others to learn from my mistakes to be a better detailer.

[budman3]

On most of the detail forums, people want an ego boost and that`s about all. After a while it is easy to pick out the ego-centric people compared to the hard core detailer striving for the best results. But when it all comes down to it all of the typing online doesn`t mean squat ... it`s really the person footing the bill of the detail - it matters more that they are happy vs. some anonymous person on a web forum. Yes it does get annoying to see the good job threads but it`s inevitable.

This summer I have been lacking with posting pictures of my details. I have learned everything I know about detailing on detailing forums, and most of it was from this site, especially at the beginning. Since I know what a resource this site is, I like to do reviews and answer questions on my experience to help out others. The same is true with posting my details, I want it to be helpful to others and I don`t get upset if no one says good job. I`d rather have 1 person learn something from my post than getting 10 `atta boys`. But that is just me ... I have nothing to gain whether it is financially, beneficially, or ego wise ...

[Way2SSlow]

I dont post a lot of pictures and definitely not all the work I do either. I post pictures that I think others will enjoy looking at. I enjoy looking at pictures of nice cars, so if I work on a nice car, I will post pics of it. If I get a pat on the back....great. If I get constructive criticism, even better. I`ve never gotten a bunch of response over here, and that`s ok. On Autopia, they`ll either love ya or hammer ya. I think I`ll cross post one of my click and brags and compare the feedback.