Zymöl Vintage... what do you charge?

[Less]

Ridiculous? Read post #15. There is one example right there.



"Not sure about the durability of it, but I'm sure it's got to be longer than the average wax on the market. I mean other than putting an absurd price tag on it they must have something other than a swanky box to justify the price, no? ....."

As I said, there are some people out there that think this way. This is just ONE example.



And it's not really a good example because the person saying this is REALLY far removed from the average ferrari/lambo/bentley owner. No offense to Mr. Apollo_Auto, but he doesn't know what it's like to have the money to spend on the purchase and maintenance of a $200K+ car. So to say that his opinion represents the opinions of the wealthy super-car owner is inaccurate.



Furthermore, Apollo's interest in Zymol is as a business investment on which he intends to make a profit. Not as a detailing client trying to make an informed decision on how to allocate disposable income. So you have to consider the different perspectives there.



Finally, you'll remember that I was critical of the exact post to which you refer, as being very naive and uninformed. Again, I doubt that this is representative of of Mr. Apollo's clientele.



Look, I'm sure we can all point to a time in our lives when we spent a little more money for a something because we thought that the price represented higher quality, but we didn't really understand what we were paying for. For me, it was the time I bought a Hyunda Santa Fe. I paid an extra few thousand dollars for the premium package with leather seats, CD changer, heated seats, etc. And ultimately, after a few months I realized that I just threw money away on what is still just a cheaply made, uncomfortable car with no resale value.



But I'm sure those instances are far outnumbered by teh times when we went the extra mile to be a little more discriminating with our disposable income. Again, for me, I can remember the time I spent an extra $900 on a lawnmower. I bought a John Deere tractor from a JD dealer as opposed to buying a Deere (same brand) from the lowes down the street. In return for my additional investment, I got an engine from a manufacturer that I was familiar with and knew as having a good reputation (briggs & stratton). The lowe's model didn't specify the engine manufacturer, but it definitely wasn't B&S. I got a few more HP, a cushier seat, wheel bearings instead of bushings, and a plethora of little upgrades that convinced me that I was making a sound investment.



I'm sorry, I just don't believe the idea that wealthy people's spending habits are ruled by an uninformed, naive, perception that price = quality.

 

[BobD]

I beleive with every ounce of my detailing skills this is exactly what happened. Other wise in all the years of this stupid arguement going on you would think at least one person would have the answers to exactly WHY Zymol is better. The closest anyone has ever come is "Well it contains enzymes... blah blah blah" Which was quickly shown to be a "So what" arguement and proven it really didn't add to anything.. (Just like the whole "you have to use you hands to activate the enzymes... blah blah" garbage) They marketed it right. But that's all it is.. 100%. Is it a quality wax? Absolutly But I wouldn't put it above any other "Quality" wax out there. I wouldn't says it's any better than P21S, SN, Fuzion, etc etc.. I've never seen any C&B that used Vintage or any other zymol product that stood out to wher you can easily say "Wow you can really tell that's Zymol on that paint" Because it's just not any different or any better than any other decent quality wax out there... Marketing pure and simple and look at just how well it worked

You want an excellent example of this. Look at how much bottled water is sold per year. You won't find a test that shows that bottled water is better than the water in your faucet. But yet people pay more for it than gas. And look how many "high end" expensive brands of water there is on the market and look how well they sell. I could bottle water right now from my sink. Put them in two identical bottles. Sell one for $2.00 and one for $5.00 and I'll promise I'll sell more of the $5.00 bottle in most cases.



There was just a study similar to this. People were given two identical television remote controls. One had some lead weight in it. Everyone said they'd buy the heavier one because the lighter one "felt cheap". it;s why if you bust open an ipod and most small electronics you'll find useless weights in it to make it feel heavier.



It's ALL marketing.

 

[Less]

Jake,



I see your point. Good marketing does go a LONG way.



But....



Just because Zymol doesn't share too many details about their proprietary formula, doesn't mean that their claims are untrue. Just because you can't prove them right, doesn't make them wrong.



Second, Vintage was developed in 1947. I wasn't alive back then, but I'm pretty sure that there wasn't any internet where detailers could get together and share ideas and experiences on different waxes. I'm also pretty sure that the average car enthusiasts options for car waxes was alot more limited than it is now. You couldn't just google "car wax" and be presented with ever brand and formula known to man. Back then they had to rely on trade publications, car shows, and word of mouth. So when you build a successful business when you're limited to those avenues of marketing, then it's probably safe to say that your product is pretty damn good.



Also, just go on teh Zymol website and it specifically spells out what makes their Vintage wax better than the competition. I won't repeat everything it says but "61% Brazillian No. 1 White Carnauba by volume, the highest in any automotive finish protective product." That's a pretty bold claim to make about a product that costs about 10x most of its competition. Until someone can prove it false, I think we have to assume its true.



Zymol also references many other ingredients. I'm not a chemist so I don't really know why these ingredients were included, or what they actually do for car paint. But if I was about to drop two g's on car wax, I would probably ask why my car needs Canteloupe oil, and I would expect an informed answer.

 

[DM101]

HeHe I am happy with my Vintage. I have used many waxes and sealants. I can say I do beleive it is 61% nuba by volume. Let it dry overnight on your car and it is hard as a brick to remove. In one occassion I was getting a refill. It was poured into the container but they did not like the quality. So they corrected the quality problem. It would have been just as easy for Zymol to let it go out and probably no one would have known. I'll be the first one to tell you if I get a refill that is not up to my standards.

 

[Less]

Danase, it's not ALL marketing. You're points about the remote control and the ipod are well taken. However, for every product you can name where marketing justifies a higher price, I can name a product where quality justifies a higher price.



Just look at batteries. An energizer battery is heavier than it's generic brethren. It's not because of added weights. It actually DOES last longer.



Also, I really don't buy your agrument about bottle water. There IS a test that can show that bottled water is better than tap water. I can take my tap water to a lab and know exactly which minerals are in it, and how much. I can do the same with tap water. If you're fortunate enough to live somewhere that has clean tap water, than good for you. And you're right, you would be stupid to buy it bottled. But there are some very industrialized communities where the water supply is so polluted that it's not even safe to shower.



If I recall correctly from some other threads in which you've posted, your professional occupation is somehow related to the engineering of public water supplies. Am I right? If so, I find your claim that tap water and bottle water are the same to be quite surprising.



Aquafina was criticized recently because people believed that it was "spring" water when in actuality, it was just tap water purchased from a public water supply. Immediately after, they launched an ad campaign where they explained their 7-step filtration process and how it removed harmful chemicals and minerals leaving only clean pure water to drink. Again, this can easily be tested at thousands of facilities nationwide. I have to believe that some consumer advocacy group shelled out the $35 to have the water tested to see if these claims were true. Since nothing more came of it, I have to assume that it's legit.



Furthermore, when you go to the store to buy Aquafina, if you look right next to it, you'll see some bottled water with your local store's logo. It's cheaper. But it doesn't claim to have a 7-step filtration process. It doesn't claim to come from any natural spring. If those things don't mean anything to you, then go ahead and buy the cheaper stuff. But those things DO mean something to some people, and they have the money to spend on certainty.



Again, it's just another example of someone with more disposable income, exercising their right to more discriminating in their choice of products.

 

[DM101]

On another ocassion I waited 8 weeks for a refill because they could not obtain the quality of nuba they needed. Again they probably could have gotten a sub-standard wax and probably no one would have noticed. Jakerooni, you can't have a 100% nuba product.

 

[CocheseUGA]

I'm still wondering what makes it worth the money.

 

[imported_Jakerooni]

On another ocassion I waited 8 weeks for a refill because they could not obtain the quality of nuba they needed. Again they probably could have gotten a sub-standard wax and probably no one would have noticed. Jakerooni, you can't have a 100% nuba product.

I know but it dosen't stop people from making the claims.. Which was actually the entire point... Just cuz it's claimed dosen't make it true.. and even if true doesn't make it any better than anything else...

 

[Imatk]

Oh My God... this has AGAIN spiraled into a "Gee Zymol is best because"



"No NO you're wrong Zymol isn't that great because!!"



For the love of Pete do a friggin search on this site and just read through the PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES of argument.



Whoever is moderating this please lock it... I think we've ALL had enough of this argument... I know I have.

 

[BobD]

Oh My God... this has AGAIN spiraled into a "Gee Zymol is best because"



"No NO you're wrong Zymol isn't that great because!!"



For the love of Pete do a friggin search on this site and just read through the PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES of argument.



Whoever is moderating this please lock it... I think we've ALL had enough of this argument... I know I have.

You don't HAVE to read it. Nobody's holding a jar of Zymol to your head. :LOLOL

 

[DM101]

Imatk, I have had enough too!!!!!

Oh My God... this has AGAIN spiraled into a "Gee Zymol is best because"



"No NO you're wrong Zymol isn't that great because!!"



For the love of Pete do a friggin search on this site and just read through the PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES of argument.



Whoever is moderating this please lock it... I think we've ALL had enough of this argument... I know I have.

 

[02zx9r]

[quote name='Apollo_Auto']Also, don't forget that there's millions of people out there that still think a Breitling tells time better than a Casio... these are the people I intend to market with this...

QUOTE]





I dont think a Breitling tells time better than a casio, Rolex, Tag Heuer, etc... but it sure does look nice.

 

[Less]

I know but it dosen't stop people from making the claims.. Which was actually the entire point... Just cuz it's claimed dosen't make it true.. and even if true doesn't make it any better than anything else...

I don't see anywhere in this thread, or anywhere in Zymol's literature where they claim that their wax is 100% carnauba. From what I've read, they claim it's 61% pure brazillian no.1 white carnauba by volume. Which they claim is more than any of their competitors. That is certainly possible and is most likely true. Just because YOU don't think it works any better than the wax that YOU use, doesn't mean that you're in a position to question these claims.

 

[Less]

Oh My God... this has AGAIN spiraled into a "Gee Zymol is best because"



"No NO you're wrong Zymol isn't that great because!!"



For the love of Pete do a friggin search on this site and just read through the PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES of argument.



Whoever is moderating this please lock it... I think we've ALL had enough of this argument... I know I have.

I think you're missing the point. This isn't an argument about whether or not Zymol is worth the money. Or how it compares to other stuff.



The argument here, or at least the argument that I'm trying to make, is that the average high-end car owner probably has a good enough head on his shoulders to ask why he's paying a premium for this wax.



The opinion perpetuated by others in this thread, is something along the lines of "fools and their money.....etc.".



I just find the notion that there are people in this world who are savvy enough to earn the money to buy a high-end car are, at the same time, naive enough to judge the quality of a product based solely on it's price. It's ludicrous.

 

[imported_Jakerooni]

Less your also missing the point. Because it is a fool and their money. The rich tend to spend on quality. And I don;t think anyone is disputing that Zymol is quality. They are a good product and they do work as claimed. No one is stating it's overpriced garbage or anything... The point is you can find the exact same or very comparable quality in much cheaper products. I would easily put stuff like Fuzion, Supernatural, Souverign etc etc on the same level as most Zymol products. All of them are Quality. All of them are very close to the same make up in content... So why is one over $2000 a tub and the others in the $100-$300 range? The answer is Marketing. It's the only answer that makes even a shred of sense. And while the rich that splurge on this are still getting their quality that they have to assume is there they are marketed to paying ridicolous amounts for it when the same quality can be had for much cheaper... Which means the thinking is the more it cost the better it must be... I find it really hard for anyone to actually argue that fact.

 

[CocheseUGA]

They do claim 61% carnuba, or such. Why is more better? Specifically, why is 61% better than 50%?



And, can anyone express it other than a wax manufacturer's press release?

 

[Less]

I'm still wondering what makes it worth the money.

Hopefully this is my last post in this thread. I'll try to answer the above question.



1) Highest carnauba content by volume

2) Highest grade (No. 1) carnauba

3) Free refills for life

4) Seemingly superior customer service (thanks MDRX8 for sharing your experience)

5) Extremely nice packaging

6) Dozens of other ingredients that don't seem to be found in other waxes. It's not clear to me what exactly these are for. Perhaps all they do is make the wax smell nice. who knows. But if I were in the market for a $2K wax, I would certainly ask the question.



Now, some, or possibly all of these things may not mean much to YOU. But that doesn't mean that that they aren't important to SOMEONE.



Going further (Warning: blatant speculation ahead), it's entirely possible that Zymol simply has higher operating costs than other companies. I'm guessing from MDRX8's experiences that it's probably that Zymol mixes up a tub of Vintage in very small batches, or possibly even individually. This means that the costs of materials and manufacturing setups gets spread over a much smaller number of units. It's not like Mother's or Meguiars where they're manufacturing tens of thousands of units at a time ready for immediate distribution to stores worldwide.



As mentioned, Zymol markets their product very well. This also costs money and is therefore calculated into the price.



And even if everything i just mentioned is complete mumbo-jumbo, you can't deny that their marketing and presentation of their product is superb. Imagine this example: Two restaurants serve the same T-bone steak. One is served to you in a quiet booth by a finely dressed waiter, on expensive china. The other serves your steak on a chipped piece of farberware, by a sweaty guy named Murray wearing a stained white tank-top. Can you REALLY say that one is no better than the other? If you don't care about ambiance, atmosphere, professionalism, or cleanliness, then sure, you can say that both steaks are exactly the same. But if you DO care about those things, then they obviously have value to you, and the restaurant has every right to charge you for it.

 

[Less]

Less your also missing the point. Because it is a fool and their money. The rich tend to spend on quality. And I don;t think anyone is disputing that Zymol is quality. They are a good product and they do work as claimed. No one is stating it's overpriced garbage or anything... The point is you can find the exact same or very comparable quality in much cheaper products. I would easily put stuff like Fuzion, Supernatural, Souverign etc etc on the same level as most Zymol products. All of them are Quality. All of them are very close to the same make up in content... So why is one over $2000 a tub and the others in the $100-$300 range? The answer is Marketing. It's the only answer that makes even a shred of sense. And while the rich that splurge on this are still getting their quality that they have to assume is there they are marketed to paying ridicolous amounts for it when the same quality can be had for much cheaper... Which means the thinking is the more it cost the better it must be... I find it really hard for anyone to actually argue that fact.

Marketing is NOT the only answer. I've posted a few just a moment ago before I saw your post.



I think if you re-read what I've posted you'll see that there IS a difference between the $100-$300 waxes and the $2000 wax.

 

[Less]

They do claim 61% carnuba, or such. Why is more better? Specifically, why is 61% better than 50%?

I'm not a math major, but I'm pretty sure that 61 is more than 50. And usually more of something, means it's better.



next time you go to the drugstore, pick up a bottle of Nyquil. Take a look at the active ingredients. Notice the one that says "Cough Suppressant" and note how much it contains.



Then pick up a bottle of Delsym, and notice how much of that same ingredient it contains.



next time you have a cold, try both and see which one stifles your cough better.



Do the same thing with Halls cough drops. Notice how much menthol-lyptus is in the cherry flavored compared to the ice blue flavor. Try 'em both and see which eases your symptoms better.



Now, if carnauba wax is what protects paint from contaminants, water spots, etching, bird crap, etc. It seems logical that more carnauba means a more protective coating.



If you're still not convinced, go buy a gallon of Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams paint. Then go buy a gallon of Behr paint from home depot. Do a side by side comparison. There is NO DOUBT that the more expensive brand uses higher quality ingredients and covers better.

 

[Less]

General Mills Honey nut cheerios taste better than store-brand Tasty-O's



I could go on like this forever. Sometimes there is such a thing as HIGHER QUALITY. And a company that manufactures higher quality would be a fool not to charge for it.



I find it interesting how some people can try to put a cap on how much a wax should cost. As if there is some arbitrary limit where the added quality and cost stop yielding better results.



I'm not saying that Zymol isn't overpriced. I really don't know enough about their operation, or their manufacturing costs. But I am just saying that if it were REALLY an extra $1700 JUST for a swanky box and some sexy marketing, they wouldn't sell a single unit.



I don't doubt that some of the inflated cost is simply "status" and "perceived value". But you can't put a number on that, and neither can I.



You don't work for Zymol. You don't know how they make their product. you don't know what goes into it. And you don't know what it does to paint on a microscopic level. So to sit there and claim that Fuzion, Supernatural, and Souveran are equal is completely naive.



I think alot of the anti-zymol sentiments here are motivated by jealousy.