Zaino with what?

[LarryM]

Well I am new at this, I have been using Zaino for about a year and a half now and I am really happy with the stuff. The car is a 2002 Pontiac Trans Am with Navy Blue Metallic paint.



My normal proceedure (2-3 times a year) would be to wash the car with dawn, clay with Z-18, wash with Z7, apply Z5 about 2-4 coats, and Z6 the hell out of it....I can't really complain, I love the results. The shine, and beading lasted really long. After that normal washes with Z7 and spray with Z6 about 1 or 2 times a month depending on how dirty it got.



I did order ZFX and Z2, but they mysteriously disappeared from my garage:angry So I never got a chance to use them.



Anyhow like everyone else I am seeking a better look. I am blessed with a family that sometimes makes mistakes, especially around my car:scared I can contribute scratches along the rear quarter panel and spoiler to my gandma, she just loves dragging her ring across the car:nono and about 6 months ago my brother just barely grazed my car with his Montero Limited, so he left some blemishes that I can't get out with my hand. Most of it came out, but there is still some. Also it seems as if sap took off part of the paint on my car (about a 2 inch line). Lastly I would like to improve some rock chips on my hood and headlight (flip up lights)



So I have done tons of reading on this web site, as well as Detail City, and I think I have an idea of what I need, but I want to get your opinions as I don't know how they will work with Zaino.



1- Purchase a PC7336 (Local Lowes has it, just waiting for a sale)

2- Either Sonus DAS pad kit or a Lake Country kit along with backing plate. I believe it is recommended by you guys to pick up an extra polishing and finishing pad:nixweiss



Now is where everything is up in the air. Here is what I am leaning toward.



Wash - Zaino Z7



Clay - Z18 or Clay Magic (Can you just buy the clay in clay magic, or does it always come with the lube. I don't care for lube because I just use Z7 in a spray bottle)



Mits - Wallmart Wool wash mit



Drying - 200 mph leaf blower and Absorber for whatever little things are left



Scratches - Combination of SSR1, SSR2.5 (Should I invest in SSR2 and SSR3? I really don't have too many swirls for some reason, I am mostly concerned about reducing the rock chips, and getting rid of the surface scratches and sap thing.



Wax - Z5 followed by Z2 pro (No ZFX, going to pass on this expensive option) When I run out of Z5, I don't plan on getting anymore, I hope Z2 pro can handle the job.



Removal - I have some nice towels from a Zaino distributor



Detail - Z6....Lots of it, I really like this, its so slick....I don't have expierence with any of the other top brand QDs, but I like Z6 enough to not want to change.



My plan of attack would be. Z7, Dry, Z18, Z7, Dry, SSR1, SSR 2.5 where necessary and go over it with SSR1, Z7 and dry again???, Z5, Z2, Z6



So what am I missing, I am pretty sure I am missing something in between the SSR 1-2.5 and the Zaino application?



Also if these products don't bond well, please tell me and if you have other suggestions please tell me. I'm really looking to remove the scratches, chips, most of the swirls, and add a little more gloss and depth (I hope the Z2 over the Z5 helps that)



One other little finny story about my wonderfuly family. My girlfriend just got an Ivory Pearl G35, and my older brother was joking with her telling her it looked like an egg. So we were sitting in her car on a hot sunny day talking and my brother thought it would be funny to throw an egg near her car. Well his throw didn't go too well, the egg bounced off our canopy and landed directly on my hood:shocked luckily I just finished my Zaino process a week or 2 earlier, so I broke out the hose and sprayed it off, the egg came sliding off:xyxthumbs

 

[LarryM]

whewww, just did a ton more reading....Guess I answered my own questions



Looks like I need to add AIO to my process, and SSR is good to go with Zaino.



Any opinions please....good or bad

 

[buzzb]

Hey there LarryM- it looks like you have a good plan but I might simplify it just a bit. I would recommend Z7 wash, while clean but still wet- spray Z7 mix for Z18 clay, still wet wash with Z7, dry then SSR2.5, SSR1, Z5, Z6, Z2. It is recommended that you use Z6 in between coats of Z5 and Z2 but it is not required. Also, unless your polishes contain fillers and oils which might prevent Z2 or Z5 from bonding, there's no need to wash again. Many use AIO before Z5 or Z2 to remove any fillers but I don't believe SSR polishes contain anything which would prevent Z from bonding. That's just my $.02. Good luck!

 

[RedondoV6]

Larry, I'll be happy to help later tonight, if noone beats me to it, I bowl on a Tuesday, got to run. Your plan is basically OK, but lose the drying before claying and think baout drying with a good quality WW, not a blower. SSR's are a good choice to use with Zaino and the AIO step is optional. More later, whne I have time to give you a full reply.

 

[LarryM]

Cool, maybe i'll save a few extra $$$ and not go with the AIO...or maybe just get it if I do other cars that don't need the SSRs....Getting real excited for the spring, this 15* weather is killing me

 

[LarryM]

Larry, I'll be happy to help later tonight, if noone beats me to it, I bowl on a Tuesday, got to run. Your plan is basically OK, but lose the drying before claying and think baout drying with a good quality WW, not a blower. SSR's are a good choice to use with Zaino and the AIO step is optional. More later, whne I have time to give you a full reply.

Looking forward to your response...



Also if anyone could answer this....stupid question but just to clarify. When PCing with SSR1 you would go over the whole car correct, but with the SSR2.5 you would use it for spots that are damaged correct?

 

[chaotik]

You would go over the whole car with SSR 2.5, then SSR1.



If you tried to use SSR2.5 in "spots", you wouldnt have a uniform finish on the car before going to SSR1.



I could be wrong on this ( others with ALOT more knowledge on this than me), but when I polish (I use SSR2.5 and 1), I go over the whole car with each product.



MIKE

 

[gearhead]

If the paint is in good condition and SSR1 takes care of any light swirls there is no need to use SSR2.5 except for areas that need it. So I think LarryM has the right idea, just that so many cars with scratches/swirls need the SSR2.5 all over. After you use 2.5 see if there's any difference (light marring) caused by it and if needed go over these areas with SSR1 again to remove. Finish should then be uniformly smooth.

 

[dc5]

Scratches - Combination of SSR1, SSR2.5 (Should I invest in SSR2 and SSR3? I really don't have too many swirls for some reason, I am mostly concerned about reducing the rock chips, and getting rid of the surface scratches and sap thing.

Can anyone answer this?

 

[RedondoV6]

Larry:



OK just got back from Bowling .. here you go... my 2 cents on your plan of action:



Go ahead with purchasing the PC 7336 from Lowes and the Sonus DAS or LC pad kit, including a backing plate. I like the Sonus pads, but either kit will do a fine job for you. Also, buy at least one extra light cutting and one extra polishing pad, you will appreciate the spares at some point.



Go ahead with the Walmart sheepskin mitt, but take your time and pick the mitt with the deepest, most dense pile, they really do vary a lot in quality.



If you are sold on the blower, go ahead, but I prefer using a waffle weave micro fiber towel to dry. The idea of blowing 120 MPH dust over my paintwork just scares me! Also, forget the absorber, a good WW MF is a much better option and easier to use. I like the MF's from http://www.winnerscircledetailingproducts.com/candypress/scripts/ Contact the owner Rob for Autopian and quantity discounts. Pakshack and PB's are two other vendors that sell MF's that I hear good things about.



If you like the Z18 clay, go ahead and use it, but personally I prefer Clay Magic. Z18 is fairly well priced (you get two bars of Z18 clay in a container) but i found the Z18 bars I purchased to be VERY hard, it is the only Zaino product that disappointed me.



On your proposed process:



Yes to the initial Zaino Z7 wash. Rinse well then go straight to clay, no need to dry.



After you clay, wash or rinse well and dry.



PB's SSR's work well with Zaino because they do not contain oils and fillers, which could interfere with Zaino Bonding. SSR 2.5 and SSR1 should be all you need in most cases. Personally, unless you have swirls all over the vehicle, I would only use SSR2.5 where you see damage or imperfections. Take your time with SSR 2.5 and work it until it breaks down and leaves a clean finish. Follow up with SSR1 over the whole vehicle to burnish the paint to a high shine. If you do want to use AIO, use it now, but given that you just used SSR1, it is optional (some users think AIO adds depth to the finish if used under the Zaino sealant). Also, depending on the amount of dust left on the vehicle from the SSR's you may want to quickly rewash with Z7 before applying the Zaino sealant, but often this is not necessary.



Again, IMHO ... I'd just go with 2 or 3 layers of Zaino Z2 Pro and save the Z5 for your wheels. Also, even with Z2 Pro, using Z1 or ZFX is still required for the application of the first layer. ZFX makes the whole process go so quickly and allows you to apply up to three layers, one after the other, so I'd advise buying and using it. As always with Zaino, apply the sealant as thinly as possible. You will often read about users using Z6 between layers of Zaino, if you want the benefit of Z6 between layers with less work, just spritz your towel with Z6 before you remove a layer, this will speed up the process. Finish off with a good Z6 spritz over the whole vehicle.



Some users report dust attraction problems with the old Z2, I'm not sure if this is still a problem with Z2 Pro (I never encountered dust attraction problems myself), but if dust attraction is a problem a wash with Z7 should solve it.



One word of caution, using the SSR's will leave your paint looking glossy and swirl/scratch free but do not expect to see improvement in paint chips. If paint chips are a problem, search Autopia, and you will find some REALLY good threads on paint repair.



Hope this is helpful, feel free to ask follow up questions here or PM me.



Good luck!

 

[LarryM]

Thanks Mike for your reply, it pretty much summed up most of my questions

Larry:

OK just got back from Bowling .. here you go... my 2 cents on your plan of action:

Hope you did well.

Go ahead with purchasing the PC 7336 from Lowes and the Sonus DAS or LC pad kit, including a backing plate. I like the Sonus pads, but either kit will do a fine job for you. Also, buy at least one extra light cutting and one extra polishing pad, you will appreciate the spares at some point.

Most likely going with the Sonus DAS kit, which comes with the backing plate of course as well as the bonnet, and orange/green/blue pads. I'll add an extra green and blue pad

Go ahead with the Walmart sheepskin mitt, but take your time and pick the mitt with the deepest, most dense pile, they really do vary a lot in quality.

Now I know what to look for, I was just about to post that question.

If you are sold on the blower, go ahead, but I prefer using a waffle weave micro fiber towel to dry. The idea of blowing 120 MPH dust over my paintwork just scares me! Also, forget the absorber, a good WW MF is a much better option and easier to use. I like the MF's from http://www.winnerscircledetailingproducts.com/candypress/scripts/ Contact the owner Rob for Autopian and quantity discounts. Pakshack and PB's are two other vendors that sell MF's that I hear good things about.

Those are some pretty cheap MF towels...Not sure which route I am going to go with on drying, it'll be a game time decision I guess. I wanted to try the blower for the fact that all other drying methods have failed in the past for me (except the absorber did work pretty well)

If you do want to use AIO, use it now, but given that you just used SSR1, it is optional (some users think AIO adds depth to the finish if used under the Zaino sealant). Also, depending on the amount of dust left on the vehicle from the SSR's you may want to quickly rewash with Z7 before applying the Zaino sealant, but often this is not necessary.



Again, IMHO ... I'd just go with 2 or 3 layers of Zaino Z2 Pro and save the Z5 for my wheels. Also, even with Z2 Pro, using Z1 or ZFX is still required for the application of the first layer. ZFX makes the whole process go so quickly and allows you to apply up to three layers, one after the other, so I'd advise buying and using it.

Guess i'll dump the AIO for ZFX in a cost cutting move, or maybe i'll just go with both....Just pisses me off that ZFX and Z2 grew a pair of legs while in my garage and took off with each other

As always with Zaino, apply the sealant as thinly as possible. You will often read about users using Z6 between layers of Zaino, if you want the benefit of Z6 between layers with less work, just spritz your towel with Z6 before you remove a layer, this will speed up the process. Finish off with a good Z6 spritz over the whole vehicle.

Nice tip with the Z6. I do apply very very thinly, almost can't see it. How long should I wait to buff when I do use ZFX and when I don't use ZFX with Z2 Pro?

One word of caution, using the SSR's will leave your paint looking glossy and swirl/scratch free but do not expect to see improvement in paint chips. If paint chips are a problem, search Autopia, and you will find some REALLY good threads on paint repair.

No improvement at all? Damn I thought maybe it would minimize it slightly....I have read one of the paint chip techniques, but I don't think I am mentally ready to make the jump to sand paper



I can't wait for the Spring, I am all excited.....Its a depressing 11* degrees right now:down

 

[imported_Burlyq]

I use menzerna exclusively under my Zaino applications because they have very few or no oils in them. That is IP and FPII, not the glaze.

 

[RedondoV6]

Thanks Mike for your reply, it pretty much summed up most of my questions.....



.....Most likely going with the Sonus DAS kit, which comes with the backing plate of course as well as the bonnet, and orange/green/blue pads. I'll add an extra green and blue pad

Larry, good choice on the pads. You may want to consider buying an extra orange (light cutting) and green (polishing) DAS pad, rather than the blue finishing pad. Use the orange or green pad with SSR 2.5 and the green pad with SSR1.

Those are some pretty cheap MF towels...Not sure which route I am going to go with on drying, it'll be a game time decision I guess. I wanted to try the blower for the fact that all other drying methods have failed in the past for me (except the absorber did work pretty well)

Your call Larry, but I do recommend that you buy at least one WW MF to try them out. After using a WW, you may relegate your Absorber to mopping up spills around the house as I have! The WW is just easier to use, it doesn't 'grab' the paint like the Absorber can and in my experience it dries the paint better.

Guess I'll dump the AIO for ZFX in a cost cutting move, or maybe I'll just go with both....Just pisses me off that ZFX and Z2 grew a pair of legs while in my garage and took off with each other

Tell you what, PM me when you are ready to apply the Zaino, I'll send you enough ZFX in a Zaino mixing bottle to take care of one vehicle. I have excess ZFX, you can try it, see if you like it. After the first ZFX layer you can just use the Z2 Pro to refresh the finish.

Nice tip with the Z6. I do apply very very thinly, almost can't see it. How long should I wait to buff when I do use ZFX and when I don't use ZFX with Z2 Pro?

Down here in the Carolina's the ZFX'ed Zaino is normally ready to remove as soon as I have made my way around the vehicle applying the Z2. I think Zaino recommends 30 minutes, but rub your finger over the applied Z2 and see if you rubs off cleanly, if it does, go ahead and remove, if it smears wait a while longer.

No improvement at all? Damn I thought maybe it would minimize it slightly....I have read one of the paint chip techniques, but I don't think I am mentally ready to make the jump to sand paper

Take a look at http://www.langka.com/ , they offer a touch up paint system which does not require wet sanding, also http://www.plastikote.com/plastikote/auto/template.jsp?searchcode=TOU&product=scratchcolor (available in Pep Boys) sell a touch up paint remover for around two bucks, which will remove or level mistakes and allow you to try again until you get the repair right. If you use a tooth pick to apply the touch up paint in tiny drops until the chip is filled, you can minimize the size of any blobs of paint, which need to be removed.



Good luck!

 

[LarryM]

Thanks Mike



OK so I am going with the Sonus pad kit, and an extra orange and green pad. Just a quick question, but whats the 2nd orange pad for?

Orange #1- SSR2.5

Orange #2- ???

Green #1- SSR2.5

Green #2- SSR1

Blue- Klasse AIO

Zaino by hand



Changed my mind on the WC WW, do you think 2 is enough? I am going to pick up 5 WC MFs too, too inexpensive to pass up on, they'll go nice with my Fieldcrest Charisma towels. Also gonna try out the Sonus clay bars.



I think i'll take you up on that ZFX offer too:bounce or maybe i'll just splurge and spend the extra $20.



I put together an Excel file to keep track of what I am buying, it looks like I am coming in a bit over $325 with shipping and sales tax:shocked but this should keep me covered for a while:xyxthumbs



Time to start looking for other cleaning products (wheels, tires, windows, interior, etc)

 

[paco]

Larry,



Clay lube, just use water/soap mix. Z7 is too costly to bother using it as a clay lube.



Drying ... I'd skip the blower idea. Just use a couple of WW MFs to get the job done.



Z5/Z2 Pro. Don't worry about the difference, Z5 does very little in terms of hiding and just mutes the paint a very little bit.



Don't worry too much about the AIO base. Simply, just wash after you're last polishing step and you'll be good to go with Z5.



NOTE: You'll need either Z1 first or Z5 + ZFX for the 1st coat you apply. Zaino requires a bonding agent for the 1st coat and about every 8 - 10 coats therein.



Z6 - It's very rich.. you cut it with some distilled water if you like. Personally, it's probably worth keeping a 50/50 mix as I find myself using that almost exclusively now rather than the out of the bottle amount.



Make sure you wet and ring out your pad with some distilled water so that you can get really thin layers without have to charge your pads with too much product.



Paco

 

[paco]

As for other cleaning products:



A good all purpose cleaner can work as a tire cleaner, bug remover, degreaser, vinyl cleaner, carpet cleaner etc when diluted properly. Cheap and VERY effective.



All you'll really need is a good class cleaner (don't forget that dish soap and water work extremely well) and rubber vinyl dressing.



I personally like Meguiar's Endurance for tires. As for vinyl, 303 is a good choice.



Paco

 

[RedondoV6]

Thanks Mike



OK so I am going with the Sonus pad kit, and an extra orange and green pad. Just a quick question, but whats the 2nd orange pad for?

Orange #1- SSR2.5

Green #1- SSR2.5

Green #2- SSR1

Blue- Klasse AIO

Zaino by hand

Larry, on the pads use the orange OR green for the SSR2.5 step, depending on how bad the imperfection you are working on. Try the green first and if that isn't working for you, break out the more aggressive orange pad to 'add some kick" to the SSR2.5. On buying spares, definately buy an extra green pad (this is the pad you will use most often), if you are looking to save a few bucks omit buying the extra orange pad unless your paint is in bad shape all over.

Changed my mind on the WC WW, do you think 2 is enough? I am going to pick up 5 WC MFs too, too inexpensive to pass up on, they'll go nice with my Fieldcrest Charisma towels. Also gonna try out the Sonus clay bars.

Hehe.. you can never have enough MF's! but 2 WW's and 5 plush will be enough for you to get started with. When you purchase from the Autopia store be sure to use the best coupon code when checking out:



SONUS -- 15% on all SONUS & Klasse products

MFT -- 20% on all microfiber products

AUTOGLYM -- 15% on all AutoGylm products

MEGUIARS -- 10% on most Meguiar's products

ABC or SAVEBIG gives a 15% discount on everything.

MFT gives a 20% discount on microfiber products.

PINNACLE for 25% off Pinnacle Souveran and Signature.



When checking out of WCD use coupon code 'autopia' for an extra 15 % off their already low MF prices.

I think i'll take you up on that ZFX offer too or maybe i'll just splurge and spend the extra $20.

What ever you decide Larry, the offer remains open if you want to take advantage of it.

Time to start looking for other cleaning products (wheels, tires, windows, interior, etc)

You might want to check out the rest of the Sonus range for now and save on separate shipping. Zaino Z16 is excellent for tires and rubber trim. Also some OTC products like EO 20/20 glass cleaner and A2Z wheel cleaner are as good as anything you can buy online (IMHO).

 

[LarryM]

haha awesome, I knew about all the coupons except the one for WC....Guess i'll throw an extra few towels in my order...



As for my tire trim, I wanted to go with Poorboys, but it seems they have durability issues, so i'll probably get Zaino as it seems to be the popular choice or maybe the Pinnacle stuff, but I don't care for gels which Z16 and Pinnacle are:sosad



What should I clean my pads with btw? Horsehair brush?



Are there any other detailing products I could use?



BTW Paco, thanks for those product saving tips

 

[LarryM]

Any recommendation on what to do with these?

Corsa Pro-series exhaust tips :up

I was thinking either Eagle One Nevr-Dull or Mothers Billet Metal Polish