Zaino Water Spots

OK, I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.. (Big surprise there, right). Below is a pasted group of five PM's I sent to a fellow Autopian after he made the mistake of PM'ing me and asking my opinion on LSP's. He'll never do *that* again, I'm sure. :)



Anyway, below is the pasted text from all those PM's. Please don't PM me asking "well, how'd XXXX LSp do in your test?" I'm not gonna be able to respond. The text below is my findings, and I really don't have anything else to say.... Wasn't it Forrest Gump that said that???



Paste:



I know what you mean about losing your garage...About six years ago, we had to move from a house to a very small townhouse. The single car garage rapidly filled with stuff, and both of our cars were parked outside. My car was parked in a spot that got hit with the sprinkler system *every night* during the spring/summer/fall. This was when I was a huuuuuuge Zainoite. Unfortunately, the Zaino didn't keep the spots from penetrating through to the clear and caused some pretty nasty etching. That's when I really got into car detailing. And also when I dropped Zaino as my primary LSP, although I've always kept it on hand. My latest bottles are about 2 years old, though. Back then, I was taking my car through a touchless car wash *every day*, and that's when I noticed that Zaino didn't come as clean through a touchless wash as carnaubas do. So add the water spots and the poor touchless cleaning ability together, and I was off of Zaino. I was a born-again wax lover. Now to be fair, I haven't used any of Zaino's new formulations. At least, I don't think I have. Word is that Sal is constantly tweaking his formulas, but doesn't ever make public the changes that are made. My latest bottles (2 years old), still suffer from the same flaws: an inability to prevent environmental contaminants from penetrating to the clear coat, and the inability to *readily* release surface contaminants. I'm thinking of buying some new Z just to see if those two flaws have been corrected in his latest formulas.... Continued next PM.. getting close to the 2k PM char limit.... and I can't stop talking.





Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to let you know what *my* side of the Zaino story is, as I know that the vast majority of Zaino users/lovers are quite adamant about their sealant of choice...alot of people just flat out refuse to listen to any negative things about Zaino; it's almost like a religion to alot of people, it seems. I've seen the darndest flame wars erupt from some innocent (but negative) comment about Z on the forums.



Anyway, back then, I tried a *bunch* of different carnauba car waxes. Today, I have whittled my collection down to three: Vintage, and the two primary Collinites- IW 845 and 476S Super Double Coat.



I have also been revisiting sealants, slowly but surely. UPGP provides a *very* similar look to Zaino. Which is one of the reasons I like UPGP alot. Don't get me wrong, there are *Alot* of things I LOVE about Zaino: the LOOK! OMG, Zaino looks a-mazing. Ease of application... ZFX izzle the shizzle. The durability: the shine lasts *forever*. And I also *love* (and continue to use to this day) ALL the other Zaino products. Their AIO is the very best sealant based AIO on the market, IMO. *However*, the poor environmental protection and poor touch free wash results vetod everything else. Anyway, FK1 HighTemp 1000P is also a nice looking sealant. It has a bit of a carnauba look to it. The verdict is still out on ease of cleaning and environmental protection. I haven't used it long enough to know....



continued "Next Rant"



OK, one last minor rant, and I promise I'll get to what you actually asked me about.



Alot of people just don't understand my position on Zaino not cleaning well. That's because they use traditional wash methods and traditional wash media. And if you go out and wash your Zaino'd car with a hose, bucket, and sheepskin mitt, your Zaino car will be very clean. So they think I'm smokin' the good stuff.. "Whaddya mean Zaino cars don't clean easy????" Not realizing that I'm talking about not touching the car at all.



Also, the water where I'm at is *very* hard. Sprinkler systems on a car *every* night will seperate the men from the boyz as far as LSP's are concerned *very* fast. Only *the very best* environomental protection LSP's need apply. Unfortunately, right now that still means carnaubas. The *Only* LSP's to be able to survive two weeks of sprinklers *every night* without making permanent water spots on my car were true waxes. Particularly, the three previously mentioned. None of the other waxes/sealants could make it a full two weeks before the LSP was compromised to the point of letting the spots stick.



There are certainly other waxes/sealants that look better, for sure. But for a well-balanced diet of environmental protection, looks, ease of cleaning, and durability, you *can not* beat the Collinites. The Vintage wins for looks, ease of cleaning and environmental protection, but falls on it's face (compared to Collinite) for durability. Good thing the refills are free, cause you have to apply Vintage *frequently*.



IMHO, Collinite is worth far, far more than it's 15 bucks per bottle. Honestly, I would switch the price tag off of Souveran and put it on IW 845, and hang IW 845's tag on Souveran. Souveran looks good, but sucks in all other ways.



Continued next rant... er.. i mean PM..







Anyway xxxxx(name changed to protect the victim/recipient of this PM from H3LL), the whole point of all this... for the last six years, I've had at least one car exposed to (very hard water) sprinklers every night during the warm seasons. It has given me a very unique opportunity to test the environmental protection, ease of cleaning, and durability of a large number of LSP's in a much more difficult environment than most people will ever see. I wish I could scream my test results at the top of my lungs and have people actually listen. Unfortunately, people are passionate about their products, especially when their product's short comings are brought up, so you are the only one I've really told about my entire experience with testing LSP's.



So.. four PM's worth of rant summarized....



Best in class (Wax) for environmental protection, looks, ease of cleaning and durability: Collinites



Best in class (Sealant) for environmental protection, looks, ease of cleaning and durability: UPGP. *However* I need to thoroughly test the latest crop and formulas of sealants, inlcuding Zaino. UPGP's heavyweight belt is going to be challenged soon.







I tend to get my hackles up a bit easy on this subject as well, since I am in a unique position of testing a large number of LSP's VERY VERY VERY thoroughly for the last six years. I hate to toot my own horn, but I know my **** when it comes to the environmental protection, ease of cleaning, and durability of LSP's. It's what I've done to keep my cars from being damaged for six years now.



On a side note, we now live in a much larger house, but only have room in the garage for my car. So the wife's suv is parked on the side of the house... still in the sprinklers.



I hope I haven't scared you off with my huge long rant...I've had way too much coffee already this morning in preperation for a long, long day of studying the Boeing XXX in far more detail than I'd ever really want to know. I'll be in XXXX next Tuesday through the end of the week going through hell/training to get back to being a "line qualified" pilot for XXXXX.



Anyway, don't hesitate to PM me... I promise not to chew your ear off in the future.



End of paste.



Again, I'm not going to sit here and respond to a bunch of questions about how such-and-such LSP did during my testing. It's important to note that alot of products have changed in the six or so years since I last tested it. Alot of my test results are old and need to be updated. However, I still stand by my results: Collinites are some of the most well-rounded waxes out there, and UPGP still has to have it's crown knocked off.



The above is all IMHO, and is a direct result of very careful testing and observations over a six year period. I know that others experiences, results, opinions, etc will be different, and that's to be expected. "Find something you like, and use it often" to borrow the words of the great Mike Phillips.
 
JoshVette said:
I can't believe what I'm reading, some of you guys are actually blaming the protection on your car for water spotting?? I'm assuming because it makes it bead better your saying it's also spotting more.....



Instead of blaming some LSP maybe you should try to dry the car faster or better so it won't spot as much. Maybe try washing it when the sun is not in the sky or in the shade, or use a water softener or pull it in the garage to dry it.....
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And if it rains and the rain dries on the car?



I personally notice more water spotting with any sealant. It doesn't stop me using them, just part of the game I guess.
 
wfedwar said:
Well, I just observed my first problems with the infamous Zaino water spots. I polished my 98 4runner about 3 months ago and it was looking pretty good until recently. Well, the I washed it today and noticed some pretty severe water spotting on the hood and other horizontal surfaces. I know it wasn't there until recently. We just got through pollen season and I think the pollen's acidity contributed to the problem. Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed in Zaino's inability to provide better protection than this. I was a pretty loyal Zaino user, but now I'm looking elsewhere. In hindsight, Zaino probably cpntributed to the water spotting problems I've had with my truck as well, I just didn't have a good baseline with that. I know this is a common problem with Zaino, I just had to vent. BTW, the car is garaged all day.
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MINDFLUX, this is what I'm refering to as someone blaming Zaino for there water spots. (Read the above post).



And the funny thing is it's 3 months after he applied it that he just now started noticing spotting.....



I wouldn't care if it was Zaino, Collinite, Meg's or Optimum, I just find it ignorant to blame an LSP for water spotting. Nothing can protect 100% against nature or bird bombs or what have you. I've even seen posts where the owners were suprised to see their LSP of choice not protect to keep swirls off. Like a wax will stop the car from being scratched?? :grinno:



Josh
 
JoshVette said:
MINDFLUX, this is what I'm refering to as someone blaming Zaino for there water spots. (Read the above post).



And the funny thing is it's 3 months after he applied it that he just now started noticing spotting.....



I wouldn't care if it was Zaino, Collinite, Meg's or Optimum, I just find it ignorant to blame an LSP for water spotting. Nothing can protect 100% against nature or bird bombs or what have you. I've even seen posts where the owners were suprised to see their LSP of choice not protect to keep swirls off. Like a wax will stop the car from being scratched?? :grinno:



Josh
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I think a lot of this all depends on how you look at it. Josh, you are reading this as though he is blaming Zaino instead of the elements (mother nature, sprinklers, etc...). I think he is looking at it as though the product doesn't protect well enough against those elements (I think he obviously realizes Zaino isn't causing his issues, he probably just feels it isn't protecting him from the elements that are). Whether any other product can do a better job or not, is up for debate (or for him to test on his own).
 
weekendwarrior said:
I think a lot of this all depends on how you look at it. Josh, you are reading this as though he is blaming Zaino instead of the elements (mother nature, sprinklers, etc...). I think he is looking at it as though the product doesn't protect well enough against those elements (I think he obviously realizes Zaino isn't causing his issues, he probably just feels it isn't protecting him from the elements that are). Whether any other product can do a better job or not, is up for debate (or for him to test on his own).
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I just think some people get carried away thinking that waxes and sealants can protect there cars from physical damage such as harsh water or acid rain spotting, especially after 3 months, then they go and call out the product as if it's defective or something? Or maybe you're right and I misunderstood the intent of the post. But it does seem a lot like a rant about a product.



Unrealistic expectations if you ask me.
 
If I don't want water spots after a 10 min t-storm? I simply get my lazy a$$ up and wash the car to prevent a 5 hour detail job. Nuff said..





Don't care if you have a million coats of Z-2p or, 2 coats of UPGP. Here in Florida, there's no way to top rain and sun.
 
I don't think anyone is saying Zaino *causes* water spots. I think what we're saying (or at least I am), is that I notice water spots more when using sealants than waxes. That's it. It won't stop me from using sealants because they have other befefits which far outweigh a few water spots. And of course this is just based on anecdotal evidence from cars I detail in my area. YMMV.



Oh, and fwiw, usually I am little too busy detailing other cars to wash mine every time it rains. :D
 
I was in total shock tonight. I washed my dads truck but neglected to wipe the windshield down with a WW. After dinner I went back outside and holy mother of all things impossible I had waterspots on the windshield. I turned on the wipers and sprayed it with windshield washer fluid and the unthinkable occurred. They didn't all disappear. There must be something defective with my dad's windshield. Certainly it should protect against waterspots:wow::LOLOL
 
wannafbody said:
I was in total shock tonight. I washed my dads truck but neglected to wipe the windshield down with a WW. After dinner I went back outside and holy mother of all things impossible I had waterspots on the windshield. I turned on the wipers and sprayed it with windshield washer fluid and the unthinkable occurred. They didn't all disappear. There must be something defective with my dad's windshield. Certainly it should protect against waterspots:wow::LOLOL
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That is a classic case of "OH SH** I STILL LIVE AT HOME" windshield syndrome.:LOLOL
 
Seriously, I put silver stripes on the hood of my car a couple years ago. I protected them with Collinite 845(which is pretty tough stuff). After about a year I had waterspotting on the vinyl stripes. I tried every cleaner imaginable and could not get them clean. Eventually I just removed them. My experience tells me waterspotting happens with every product line to one extent or another.
 
JoshVette said:
I wouldn't care if it was Zaino, Collinite, Meg's or Optimum, I just find it ignorant to blame an LSP for water spotting.
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I find it ignorant to dismiss the issue as you have. I am describing my experience. I have tried many other products and this is the first time I've seen this problem to this extent. In other posts I've made about the issue I've suggested that there may actually be several issues here: 1) the acidity of pollen, 2) the tight Zaino beads tend to hold more water on the car, 3) Zaino's clarity and lack of filling may make the same problem more noticable than other LSPs, and 4) Zaino may not protect as well. That's four possible factors, only one of which is actually a problem with Zaino.
 
Well another possible explanation is that most waxes degrade and as you wash you are removing part of the wax as well as what is on the surface. Hence mineral deposits are washed away. With Zaino the protection lasts and the water deposits attach on top of the Zaino. Duragloss Water Spot Remover works fairly well for fresh deposits. BTW, I've seen the same thing with other high end sealants as well.
 
I also feel that Zaino, of which I am extremely fond, allows water spots to etch the paint surface to an extent that I felt Ultima PGP did not. Not just in the multiple Z layers: the paint gets etched. I'm in NC with significant acid rain, but I've seen it with two different cars. The degree of etching surprised me. I'm experimenting now with Z-CS to see if it holds up better to the rain.



Car is outside 24/7 and no, I'm not going to pop up and wash the car every time it rains.
 
Sherri Zann said:
I also feel that Zaino, of which I am extremely fond, allows water spots to etch the paint surface to an extent that I felt Ultima PGP did not. Not just in the multiple Z layers: the paint gets etched. I'm in NC with significant acid rain, but I've seen it with two different cars. The degree of etching surprised me. I'm experimenting now with Z-CS to see if it holds up better to the rain.



Car is outside 24/7 and no, I'm not going to pop up and wash the car every time it rains.
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HAHA^



When it rains and the sun comes out immediately, I usually have time to wash my car, but for my sisters 2006 Accord (protected with Z-AIO/Z-CS since December 2007) I usually let her car sit out in the sun after it rains just because she's the test subject :eek:



After looking at the paint surface on the her Accord.. there is some waterspots, but I don't see any signs of paint etching. The waterspots don't seem to took hard, but it does need to be corrected sometime soon. I'll need to post the beading on my other thread I started and update it.
 
I had my problems with waterspots in the past, Zaino didn't work any better than zymol or even turtle wax, etc. When the sprinklers at my job come on in the sunlight, they wreck my paint and I spend hours with a machine getting them out. Then I found Jeff's Werkstatt.... I'm still shocked that the water spots wash off with a garden hose now. It's unbelievable, awesome stuff.
 
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