Zaino vs NXT

Matt M said:
Scott....I have read that post before, thanks. I would agree that silicones are not detrimental to your finish, but would counter that by saying that it can cause trouble with later paintwork.



You also said "It is common knowledge that silicones do nothing to help protect your paint either." I'm just asking you to back that up.



I know that unless you properly prep a car prior to painting, any silicones left can cause fisheyes and other problems. That doesn't mean you should never use them. A good paint shop knows all about silicones and can clean them from the car properly.



Let's also remember who wrote the article. A Meguairs' employee.

I'm sorry, but I can't take that article as unbiased.



Ah, but you will take their word when they say NXT has cleaning ability. Just because he works for Meguiars doesn't mean he is wrong.



You also take Sal's word that his products contain no abrasives or silicones. ;) (yes, I know they don't).



About the NXT...I only posted what was written by a Meguiar's rep on another site. Again...not my words...his..and it was posted by the author of the article. Whether the ingredients are harmful or not...when I tried the NXT product I was very disappointed.



My own experience with NXT shows me that its cleaning/polishing ability is very light, at least by hand. I don't know which Meguiars rep you are speaking of, but Mike Phillip's account is that NXT's cleaning/polishing ability is minor. There are several threads on Autopia where this has been discussed.



If you have a preferrence to one product line over another, fine; but there isn't a need to bash another product to build up what you like.



Was this even necessary? "I have used Zaino on all my cars...showcars and daily drivers...and I find it to have no equal. I tried NXT and thought it was junk. Even Meguairs Cleaner-Wax did a better job." Why not just state your reasons for liking Zaino and not even mention NXT?



I have good friends that own a body shop. They keep silicones out of their shop as much as possible. Silicones cause fish-eyes and other adhesion problems. This is common knowledge. This is why many products directed towards professionals are listed a "body shop safe" when they do not contain silicones. I am following the advice of who I consider absolute professionals with decades of experience.



Hey look...I certainly do not have all the answers...that's why I'm here.



I know several body shop owners and I myself took a paint and body class. They (and I) know how to prep a car for painting so any previous use of waxes containing silicone are completely removed prior to entering the paint booth.
 
Though Ive used Meguiar's products for years, I first used NXT a few days ago. Apparently I got it on a little too thickly as it was tough to buff out.



Today I took one step back and clayed the surface, follwd up with a little Scratch-X work.



This time I applied a thin coat of NXT and let it cure for 1hr before buffing off. I then wiped on a thin coat of NXT "booster" wax and the result was impressive. The finish was deeper and slipprier than with just the NXT.



I have an '88 Corvette 35th Anniversary with a cream white finish that doesn't easily show a shine in daylight. But the result of the days work was excellent.



Tomorrow I intend to apply two more coats of NXT, followed by a top coat of the "booster". I guess that I'm hooked and can't get enough of the "depth".



It will be interesting to see how well this treatment holds up to the test of time.
 
I guess I should pose my question here .. NXT .. I have been treating it like like a sealant and allowing at least 24 hours between layers for curing purposes ( not drying purposes ).



Is this necessary? I see people doing multiple layers in a day and also adding toppers/ QDs without waiting.



Maybe this is the reason some are complaining the longivity is NXT is short? They are interupting the NXT curing process by adding a second layer or QD or topper *before* NXT has propperly cured.
 
Dee-I think you are right to wait 24 hours before adding a second coat of NXT. I normally just use one coat on my customer's cars and I am getting decent durability.
 
I may do 2 coats in one setting but only for complete coverage. Cure at least 24 hrs before topping or QD'ing. Yes Dee, people are probably using NXT incorrectly but that may be Meguiar's fault for not spelling things out like Zaino, Souveran (carnauba that states wait 24 hrs before adding another coat), Klasse, etc.

Patience is a virtue. :D
 
Scottwax….with all due respect, I am sure that you are a knowledgeable guy about detailing and the like. Let’s agree to disagree…there are bigger fish to fry. I’d also agree with you that any body shop worth their weight would clean very carefully before paint as they have no clue what an owner may have used on their car.



I do take exception however, with my having to “back-up� my knowledge (if it agrees with you or not), yet you take the word of a Meguair’s Rep without question. His motive is to sell the silicone laden products that Meguiar’s offer. Is silicone detrimental to your paint finish? Probably not. But, from what I have gleaned, I chose to avoid it as much as possible.



For the record…I do not sell any car care products. I have always been a detail fanatic, and tried just about every polish and wax that came along. For more than 15 years, I have been restoring and showing national award winning cars.



I’ll even retract my “junk� comment about NXT. In my tests, I found their $6.00 Cleaner-Wax to work better. So, let’s just say that NXT is not for me. I hoped it would be the next best thing, but it didn’t work out that way for me.



We're all in this detailing thing together...all the best to you.
 
Hey Matt…. welcome to Autopia!



You'll find plenty of sincere, honest people here who will go out of their way to help you find the answers you're looking for. :wavey
 
Matt-I am just saying that if you are going to say silicones do not help waxes last longer, you should be able to have some sort of proof. BTW, I am not just accepting Mike's words, his article was just the most convienent to pull up. ;) Just curious, what have you 'gleaned' about silicones that worry you so much (besides the body shop issues)? I'd like to research your concerns to further educate myself on the subject.



Believe me though, if I didn't have the confidence that the silicones used in quality automotive wax wasn't safe for the finish, I wouldn't be using them on my customer's $200,000+ vehicles.



BTW, just for the record, while I use Meguiars for paint correction, I use other products for finishing about 75% of the time....and I did use Meguiars Cleaner Wax for one steps when I first started my detailing business. Still pretty good stuff especially for the price. :xyxthumbs
 
blkZ28Conv said:
My suggestion to the thread starter was "maintain" whatever protectant you use.............. No quick fixes in detailing and paint maintenence. Just a constant battle against the elements, natural degradation, and other car owners. :wavey



:bow :bow Great post Edwin!! IMO, keeping up with the regular maintenance of the car is far more important for your paint's longevity than how many layers of sealant you've got coated. No matter how bulletproof some products like Klasse and Zaino are, they don't stand a chance against being neglected and left to fight the harsh winter elements all by themselves for months at a time. Although the product may still "be" on your car...causing it to sheet/bead water, it's still not going to make your paint impervious to contamination from the elements. It's all about showing your car some love on a frequent basis.



BTW, the new TV is awesome!! Hope my cars don't get jealous!!
 
Thanks Mike...I appreiciate that, especially considering the comments I have made about your NXT. I know it's not personal. In the tests I did with NXT, your Cleaner-Wax did a better job. I'm very glad to have found this site and hope that I may be as helpful to others as they are to me. Your Cleaner-Wax is great for getting the black streaks off my trailer...I am not getting into multiple steps on a 22' trailer.



Scott, I'm with you, always trying to learn a little more.

Even if there is "doubt" about the safety of silicones, I've chosen to avoid them when possible. We all know how bad they are for vinyl and rubber, yet many companies actively market these products a "protectants".



As far as the "dangers' of silicones in waxes is concerned..I can't give you a website with chapter and verse. All I know is from talking with friends in the body shop biz, auto body supply and even the wax biz. My understanding is that silicone doesn't remain "static" for want of a better word. It can permeate surfaces.



While this may not be the best example.....I recently restored a '72 Plymouth. Over this past winter I needed to remove some front end parts, one of which was the backing plate (front drums). I use silicone brake fluid and I am sure that some got on the plates during the bleeding process. It certainly was not soaked. This is a national award winning trailered showcar, so you can bet it was cleaned off immediately and the car is always immaculate. (Silicone brake fluid does not water or harm the paint like regular fluid.) Anyhow, I wiped down the plate, glassbeaded it to bare metal, cleaned again with Acryliclean...then tried to paint. Fisheyes by the dozens. I wound up blasting again, and cleaning, cleaning, cleaning before paint would apply. It seems that the silicones leached under the paint applied about 18 months ago and got into the pores of the metal.



I'll keep trying to find some documentation on this whole silicones thing, and post here.
 
Intermezzo said:
:bow :bow Great post Edwin!! IMO, keeping up with the regular maintenance of the car is far more important for your paint's longevity than how many layers of sealant you've got coated. No matter how bulletproof some products like Klasse and Zaino are, they don't stand a chance against being neglected and left to fight the harsh winter elements all by themselves for months at a time. Although the product may still "be" on your car...causing it to sheet/bead water, it's still not going to make your paint impervious to contamination from the elements. It's all about showing your car some love on a frequent basis.



BTW, the new TV is awesome!! Hope my cars don't get jealous!!



Thanks Tony :bow.

Your vehicles may not be jealous but I am!! ;)
 
Hi Matt,



Just as comment about silicones and products without them,



Meguiar's started out making nothing but products without silicones and waxes. In fact, Frank Meguiar Jr. took great pride in creating products for both the OEM and the Refinishing industry that did not contain wax or silicone so that they wouldn't cause any surface adhesion problems.



Meguiar's didn't come out with their first wax until 1951 shortly after Frank Meguiar Jr. passed away. That was #16 Professional Paste Wax and it's still around today. (53 years later).



At work, I'm a bit of a boat rocker here at work, I ask questions seeking information that I can pass onto members of forums like Autopia for people that have questions.



After the Tech Wax Cleaner fiasco, Meguiar's has told me for the most part, that Meguiar's isn't going to tell people what ingredients are in Meguiar's products. (Which makes sense, no other wax company does this either).



For the most part, people are free to try the product and decide if they like it or not. You tried Tech Wax and didn't like it. I and the Ferrari owners applied it to around a doze Ferrari's last weekend and everyone loved it.



Go figure...



This Friday I will be at a Porsche Tech Session in San Luis Obispo



http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&action=getinfo&eventid=29



Teaching people how to safely remove swirls and scratches out of their finish and then apply Tech Wax to top it off.



Then on Saturday, I'll have about 30 Mercedes-Benz owners doing the same thing.



http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&action=getinfo&eventid=6



So while it doesn't work for everyone, and no product does, it does seem to work for me on just about any paint type I put it on.



And because I see people try to say that the reason for that is I do the prep work, to insure that's not the reason, I do my best to have the owners of all of these cars do as much of the work as they can, except for some of the rotary work.



Here a couple of months ago, I had a person post to Meguiar's Online that he hated Tech Wax and it was the worst wax he had ever used. I sent him another bottle that I opened to make sure it was okay, a couple of extra wax pads, some quality microfiber polishing cloths and some extra instructions to make sure there was no doubt as to how to apply and remove it and now I have seen him posting to other people how much he loves this new product on his black Corvette.



I get e-mails and pictures all of the time from people that have tried this new product and have been blown away by the results. I think these type of results are the norm, and not the exception.



Perhaps if you have it within you to try it again, pick out one of the show cars you work with and after cleaning, and polishing (if needed), apply two thin coats of the Tech Wax either by hand or using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher and then inspect again.



I'll even send you a quart of the #83 DACP, (non-Silicone) cleaner/polish if you don't already have some to pre-clean the finish.



Most important though, is inspect your results in bright light compared to other products you usually try. I find for a show car under bright lights, nothing has outperformed Tech Wax for darkening the color, eliminating the cobweb effect and making a smooth finish look wet.



The below Viper belongs to a forum member here on Autopia by the name of Newport Viper. He had been previously using only Zaino products on his car. In fact his first post here on Autopia was a request for a professional to detail his car and ONLY USE ZAINO.



Here's the link,



Need mobile detailer in Scottsdale AZ for Viper!



I even chimed in and offered to do the detail job. After a while I forgot about the thread and moved on.



Down the road, Newport Viper moved to Newport Beach, CA instead of Scottsdale AZ and I got a phone call from him one day.



He had ordered some Tech Wax when it first became available and wanted to come right by Meguiar's and pick it up. So he asked me if I could pull his order which I did. For his particular detail he prepped his Viper's finish using Meguiar's #9 Swirl Remover 2.0 (Non-Silicone), and than applied 2 Coats of Tech Wax.



He was blown away! He then posted pictures of his results to a bunch of different forums, including Autopia...



NXT Viper



A few months later, he organizes a Viper Detail Day at Meguiar’s.



At this event, he re-polishes the paint on his Viper with #83 DACP which is more aggressive than #9 SR 2.0 and then comments to me how much better his finish looks than it did with the #9/Tech Wax combo because the #38 removed even more of the fine swirls and scratches in his car's finish.



I have to agree... his Viper's paint looks like it's wet!



2700_TwoWetVipersCropped1.jpg




And that's with one coat of Tech Wax, and he did all of the work.



So maybe, just maybe, give Tech Wax another try?



Mike



p.s.



As far as the silicone thing goes, for me personally, I just trust the fact that because Meguiar's knows when to keep the silicone out of a product, when the chemists decide to put it into a product, they must know what they're doing?
 
Mike...thanks for the reply. I know of Newport Viper and we went around and around on the VCA site about NXT when he posted there. It was his post that suggested I try it. At that time, I mentioned that silicones were in NXT and was almost crucified by some other posters.



As requested, I'll give the NXT another shot. It's still in my garage. I'll do another test. Hey, as I have said before, I'd love to find the next best thing. I''ll try it on the side of the Bronco.



I'd agree that prep is most important.



Maybe it's what I use, or just dumb luck that my vehicles do not develop swirling. Even my 10 year old Bronco does not show much swirling. I have used #9 but have not used the DACP.



Here's a pic of a factory paint '94 Bronco that is not garaged.
 

Attachments

  • broncoshine2.jpg
    broncoshine2.jpg
    62.3 KB · Views: 523
Matt .. give the DACP a try and NXT another go. This is a S-10 single stage I did last week that was oxidized to a point where it was flat and rubbed off on your hand.



I used the DACP and NXT x 2 .. 24 hours apart. A Cavalier I did on 10 Mar is still looking like this and beading like the day it was done.



12805rhood3.jpg
 
when it comes down to it. If I could have went to Wally MArt and got NXT. I would have tried it first. For the money, what did I have to lose.



But, I'm in Canada. And Again, Meguiars leaves Canada out. So, I went the Zaino route, and it's on the way. What's the point of having the "next best thing" if everyone can't get it?



And I refuse to ship one bottle from the US to Canada. Might as well get the zaino.



Too bad though. I would have given it a fair shot.
 
Newf(ie), I feel your pain. I feel the same way. If I am going to mail order for an on the shelf product in the US, and pay the shipping and duty, might as well go the boutique route, and get Klasse/Zaino/4Star/Poorboys/Wolfgang and what have you.:(
 
Guess what I got today! My Zaino Kit!



Now all I need is SUN!!! Where can I order that from?



Actually, it is nice out today. At least here. most of the island is getting 20cm of snow as I type. But we are lucky so far. Just not warm enough for waxing yet Strange spring so far



Now, I wonder how much I'll have to mix in order to do the car....hmmm.....



For every 1 coat of z2 or z5. How much you figure I'll need to mix? 1 oz? 2oz? I don't want to waste this stuff, I know it goes on very very thin.
 
Back
Top