Zaino Missing Big Boat

R

RAG

New member
First...I like using many of Zaino's products. I guess it's there own prerogative, but Zaino is missing out on a lot of sales by not offering "volume" alternatives for professional or part-time detailers and not distrubiting to popular retailers. At $35 plus S&H for 8oz of polish with ZFX (actually, less than 8 oz when you consider most people run out of accelerator before polish) they confine themselves to the home hobbiest exclusively; and clearly these are their intentions. Point is...like many of the professionals that have spoken out on this board, I'd buy and use their products on customer's vehicles if they had a viable, cost-effective alternative for professional use. Admittingly, most detailers would not use Zaino, but many "top-end" detailers would. Last peeve is their unwillingness to distribute to retailers. They won't even sell "accelerater" only, forcing one to buy an extra ZFX kit (for $20 :angry ) when you inevitably run out and still have polish remaining (talk about going to the cleaners).



They must think distrubiting to "detailers" will somehow cheapen their "Pinnacle-like" image.



Though I'm sure everyone would agree that it would be nice to buy Zaino at their favorite retailer and that more flexible pricing would be beneficial, I'm sure I'll receive a bit of bashing (probably from Zaino employees that frequent this board) for my comments.
 
I too would be more inclined to use Zaino if I could purchase it more easily and in larger sizes at a lower cost per ounce....and a Z2 Pro version that does not require ZFX.



Side note-Z5 seems to hold up very well despite not using ZFX. Just Z5 topped with Z8 and after two months on a metallic black BMW M Roadster, it still looked great and had excellent slickness.
 
Apparantly his philosophy is to have a business model that caters to the home enthusiast where he enjoys legions of loyal followers.



Growing and expanding his product sizes dillutes from his hands on, quality controlled, manageable business model that has already made him quite sucessfull.



This is what seperates him from the majority of the car care industry and makes him unique. That's what's nice about Zaino; he doesn't water down his selections with mass consumption alternatives that you want.



There are enough "Wal Mart" car care companies and retailers out there with many products that don't live up to the hype and desired results. Not being part of that is something refreshing and admirable. I think it shows are true love of his product and desire to refine it further while maintaining top quality for EVERY product.
 
DFTowel said:
Z2Pro requires ZFX? Since when? I've been using it since Day 0 and I've never used ZFX.
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My understanding is you need to use ZFX for the initial application and if you want to apply more than one layer in one detailing session.
 
Have you spoken to Sal Zaino about this topic?





Him and I went over this in-depth one day. Autopians are undoubtedly of a different breed of detailers. Seldom will you ever walk into another detailing shop using some of the products that pro's here use. The market is saturated with detailers who are concerned about speed and instant shine. Most could care less if the shine lasts past a week. They have money in their pocket and x number of vehicles out the door per day. In short, they are built on efficiency, not quality.



If you take the number of full-time detailers who have even heard of Zaino, I'm sure it boils down to under 10%. With 8 oz. shipped at $24.90 doing at least 25 cars (~$1 a layer), I agree, it is a touch spendy. However, his target market are enthusiasts. If you have used Zaino (directed to anyone), most will agree that it is a quality product... A very high quality product.



Sal actually used to offer Z6 in gallon form but it didn't sell. If you notice, Zaino is very fresh when its shipped (mixed in the past 30 days I believe). Sal likes to insure maximum shelf-life since the product goes so far for the average consumer/enthusiast. This, in my opinion, is completely in-line with his marketing.



Lastly, ZFX...I'm with Scott and Leo on this one. If I am doing a single layer of Zaino, a simple Z6 or IPA wipedown will suffice. I have never seen hindered results from not using ZFX with a single layer. I got 6-7 months out of a single layer on my girlfriend's Pathfinder last year (outside 365 days a year and battled a heavy winter). Just make sure you apply it very thin and you will have repeated success.
 
DFTowel said:
Z2Pro requires ZFX? Since when? I've been using it since Day 0 and I've never used ZFX.
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Are you using Z1 instead? I think those that are saying they'd like to see a version that works without ZFX actually mean they'd like a version that requires neither ZFX nor Z1.



FWIW, I've used Z2Pro over AIO, and it seems to work just fine. I'm sure that long-term durability may have been affected, but I haven't been able to wait long enough to find out before getting the itch to try something different on the car.



Tort



P.S. I want Z6 in gallons. I don't use other Zaino products frequently enough to care about volume sizes, but I'd be all over reasonably priced gallons of Z6.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Are you using Z1 instead? I think those that are saying they'd like to see a version that works without ZFX actually mean they'd like a version that requires neither ZFX nor Z1.
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The chemistry behind this product does not "yet" allow this for maximal surface bonding, multiply layering and appearance.



Can you see the average 'weekend warrior detailer" going to Walmart spending $25 for the minimal requirements (Z1 and Z2-PRO) and applying after washing his vehicle with his old colored t-shirt and drying with his old polyester terry towel and buffing with his Sears polisher? :hairpull



Zaino is for the guy who want the perfect appearance after performing the perfect Prep and does not mind, probably loves, spending a day detailing his/her baby. :getdown



PS. Sal does offer case pricing, which is discounted and shipped at the same rate as a small order (~$8). :xyxthumbs



If Sal missed the boat, it must have been the Titanic because his products sure aren't sinking. :hifive:
 
Gotta agree with GSRStilez. If any of you read detailing publications, it's always about how fast and cost-effective they can do things. They're never concerned with how harsh chemicals are, doesn't matter if it strips wax, as long as it gets 99% of dirt off the car in 2 minutes. Products like Zaino don't get the light of day.

I don't like the way Zaino do things 100% either, but overall, they're definitely going about it better than most.
 
I dont think Zaino is expensive at all, especially if you put it against Swissol and Zymol. The cheapest waxes these two do are about $70!
 
I think RAG's point is that he wishes Zaino was more pro detailer friendly in that bulk sizes were available, along with no ZFX needed to improve bonding or durability. It isn't that the pros on this board are cheap, I certainly have no problems using Souveran on customer's cars. It is that most customers aren't going to pay more for 3 ZFX'ed layers of Z2. Susie Homemaker isn't interested in the subtle difference the additional layers will add on her minivan or SUV. She wants a nice shine that beads for a while. She's going to ask "yeah, that's fine for a sports car, you have anything that works with one application?"



A few have pointed out that they have been able to use Z2 Pro sans ZFX and so far so good on my test with straight Z5 topped with Z8. I just think maybe being able to buy a quart of Z2 Pro or Z8 at a reduced price versus the cost per 8 oz or pint would probably induce more pros to use Zaino products. I can't see how that is anything but good business. :nixweiss
 
Spilchy said:
Apparantly his philosophy is to have a business model that caters to the home enthusiast where he enjoys legions of loyal followers.



Growing and expanding his product sizes dillutes from his hands on, quality controlled, manageable business model that has already made him quite sucessfull.



This is what seperates him from the majority of the car care industry and makes him unique. That's what's nice about Zaino; he doesn't water down his selections with mass consumption alternatives that you want.



There are enough "Wal Mart" car care companies and retailers out there with many products that don't live up to the hype and desired results. Not being part of that is something refreshing and admirable. I think it shows are true love of his product and desire to refine it further while maintaining top quality for EVERY product.
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*Very* well put.
 
Spilchy said:
Apparantly his philosophy is to have a business model that caters to the home enthusiast where he enjoys legions of loyal followers.



Growing and expanding his product sizes dillutes from his hands on, quality controlled, manageable business model that has already made him quite sucessfull.



This is what seperates him from the majority of the car care industry and makes him unique. That's what's nice about Zaino; he doesn't water down his selections with mass consumption alternatives that you want.



There are enough "Wal Mart" car care companies and retailers out there with many products that don't live up to the hype and desired results. Not being part of that is something refreshing and admirable. I think it shows are true love of his product and desire to refine it further while maintaining top quality for EVERY product.
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Exactly :xyxthumbs
 
I just want to touch on a couple of items said because I have been dealing with Sal as a distributor for nearly 4 years.



Most importantly, you really should use an activator (Z-1 or ZFX) if you plan in using Z-2Pro/Z-3/Z-5. Present company excluded but you'd be surprised how many people think that all ZFX does is speed up drying time. As many of you know since the introduction Z-2Pro right out of the bottle, drying time is drastically reduced. The use of an activator "tightens" the crosslinking. It adds strength, gloss, and durability. "If you don't use an activator it's like painting without a catalyst." - quote to me by Sal Zaino



Trust me, if Sal can produce a product with the same result and quality without having to mix two products together, he would do it in a second. THE TECHNOLOGY ISN'T THERE YET. (That's another quote from Sal.)



The product I sell the most of is Z-6 (no surprise, right?). Only a handfull of my customers have asked for larger containers. (Tort, you are one). I sell by the case to a few local car dealerships. As a distributor my turnover of my stock on-hand of Z-6 is 3 months or less. My better customers buy (3) 16 oz. bottles of Z-6 per year. When they buy, they are getting a very "fresh" bottle of Z-6.



I don't think Sal's mind is closed to selling larger containers of certain products, just like everything else -- If there's a market for it, he'll sell it. Let him know what you think -- send him an EMAIL. If there is enough interest, he may change his mind. It can't hurt, right?



As far as selling at a discount to detail shops or large users, I can tell you that Sal had some abuses in the area of handing out distrubutorships so he quit doing that a few years ago. Mostly, selling the product at a discount and re-selling it again to someone with that same discount. The second person didn't know how to apply it correctly so when Sal got the call on the phone it was usually from an irrate customer who just wasted a bunch of the product and found out he put it on like a carnuaba-based product. Can you see why he doesn't sell at a discount?



There is a reason why it's sold like it is. As many of you said, and I concur, it's to keep the quality high.
 
JJU said:
Trust me, if Sal can produce a product with the same result and quality without having to mix two products together, he would do it in a second. THE TECHNOLOGY ISN'T THERE YET. (That's another quote from Sal.)
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I'm really interested when he is able to make it work.



As far as selling at a discount to detail shops or large users, I can tell you that Sal had some abuses in the area of handing out distrubutorships so he quit doing that a few years ago. Mostly, selling the product at a discount and re-selling it again to someone with that same discount. The second person didn't know how to apply it correctly so when Sal got the call on the phone it was usually from an irrate customer who just wasted a bunch of the product and found out he put it on like a carnuaba-based product. Can you see why he doesn't sell at a discount?
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Maybe but some of us aren't looking to resell it, just have a more affordable bulk option.



There is a reason why it's sold like it is. As many of you said, and I concur, it's to keep the quality high.
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I don't think that is the only reason. Sal is a business man and I'm sure he understands a bit of exclusivity with his products also helps sell them. Can't say I blame him either, I think most pros here market their business the same way, ie no big discount tote the note lot details and focusing on the private owner who cares about their car more than the average person.
 
Spilchy said:
Apparantly his philosophy is to have a business model that caters to the home enthusiast where he enjoys legions of loyal followers.



Growing and expanding his product sizes dillutes from his hands on, quality controlled, manageable business model that has already made him quite sucessfull.



This is what seperates him from the majority of the car care industry and makes him unique. That's what's nice about Zaino; he doesn't water down his selections with mass consumption alternatives that you want.



There are enough "Wal Mart" car care companies and retailers out there with many products that don't live up to the hype and desired results. Not being part of that is something refreshing and admirable. I think it shows are true love of his product and desire to refine it further while maintaining top quality for EVERY product.
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I agree 100%!!!!!!! :2thumbs:
 
Scottwax said:
Maybe but some of us aren't looking to resell it, just have a more affordable bulk option.
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I understand what you are saying but he can't control it once it leaves his hands. If he doesn't know you with some level of trust, it usually comes back to bite him. He may do it again but it may take a long time.



The "bad apples" ruin it for the good ones.
 
My philosophy with using Zaino on a pro level is simple...I charge more for a Zaino detail. Most folks that are into the "Z thing" don't mind this one bit. The customer is happy in that they get what they want and I am happy because my added costs are covered.
 
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