Z6 -- Diluted
- Thread starter buldog
- Start date
imported_memnuts
New member
If you are Qd'ing a completely clean vehicle there is no need to dilute. A small spritz will do a complete panel and maybe 3 for the hood, top and trunk. 10-15 small spritz should do the whole vehicle. If you use more than a half oz per session you are using too much.
Z6 is a little more complex than your run-of-the-mill QD's that contain mostly water, alcohol and a gloss enhancer (carnuaba or silicone). Z6 contains polymers that not only enhances shine but added to the Z protection already in place. For best results use as directed and at no place have I read officially that Z6 should be or recommended to be diluted.
JMHO
Z6 Lite
Z6 is a little more complex than your run-of-the-mill QD's that contain mostly water, alcohol and a gloss enhancer (carnuaba or silicone). Z6 contains polymers that not only enhances shine but added to the Z protection already in place. For best results use as directed and at no place have I read officially that Z6 should be or recommended to be diluted.
JMHO
Z6 Lite
Eclipse Detail
New member
Originally posted by blkZ28Conv For best results use as directed and at no place have I read officially that Z6 should be or recommended to be diluted.
JMHO
Z6 Lite
Straight from the Zaino website Z-6 product information
"Please note: Some customers have a difficult time using Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean in it's extremely high concentration. You may find that diluting Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean with distilled water up to a ratio of 1 to 1 will help you get the best results. Start diluting small proportions and test until you find it works the best for how you apply the product. This will definitely make Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean more user friendly for you and give you more bang for your buck!"
Greg
imported_Burlyq
New member
I even go down to 1 part z6 to 3 of water for removing residue, you might not want to do this as a QD, but it is ok for sealant application/removal.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
If you are Qd'ing a completely clean vehicle there is no need to dilute. A small spritz will do a complete panel and maybe 3 for the hood, top and trunk. 10-15 small spritz should do the whole vehicle. If you use more than a half oz per session you are using too much.
:xyxthumbs
Z6 is a little more complex than your run-of-the-mill QD's that contain mostly water, alcohol and a gloss enhancer (carnuaba or silicone). Z6 contains polymers that not only enhances shine but added to the Z protection already in place. For best results use as directed and at no place have I read officially that Z6 should be or recommended to be diluted.
JMHO
Z6 Lite
===============================================================
Straight from the Zaino website Z-6 product information
"Please note: Some customers have a difficult time using Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean in it's extremely high concentration. You may find that diluting Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean with distilled water up to a ratio of 1 to 1 will help you get the best results. Start diluting small proportions and test until you find it works the best for how you apply the product. This will definitely make Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean more user friendly for you and give you more bang for your buck!"
Greg
==================================================================
The two things that adversely effect the cross-linking of a polymer are the presence of oil and/or water.
Iâ€â„¢ve said this before that an mfg spokesperson changing the fundamental rules of chemistry causes me to doubt their validity. The statement âہ“This will definitely make Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean more user friendly for you and give you more bang for your buck!" sounds to me like marketingâ€Â¦:nixweiss
JonM
:xyxthumbs
Z6 is a little more complex than your run-of-the-mill QD's that contain mostly water, alcohol and a gloss enhancer (carnuaba or silicone). Z6 contains polymers that not only enhances shine but added to the Z protection already in place. For best results use as directed and at no place have I read officially that Z6 should be or recommended to be diluted.
JMHO
Z6 Lite
===============================================================
Straight from the Zaino website Z-6 product information
"Please note: Some customers have a difficult time using Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean in it's extremely high concentration. You may find that diluting Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean with distilled water up to a ratio of 1 to 1 will help you get the best results. Start diluting small proportions and test until you find it works the best for how you apply the product. This will definitely make Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean more user friendly for you and give you more bang for your buck!"
Greg
==================================================================
The two things that adversely effect the cross-linking of a polymer are the presence of oil and/or water.
Iâ€â„¢ve said this before that an mfg spokesperson changing the fundamental rules of chemistry causes me to doubt their validity. The statement âہ“This will definitely make Z-6â„¢ Ultra Clean more user friendly for you and give you more bang for your buck!" sounds to me like marketingâ€Â¦:nixweiss
JonM
imported_memnuts
New member
That's exactly what it is, Jon and I believe this diluting procedure was an out-growth of "authorized distributors" justifying cost of this Zaino system to new customers.
I would love to be able to pull up the website from 4 years ago.
I do not believe this protocol was there. I may be wrong? I have not read about Z6 since than. I personally have never had a problem with Z6 after realizing the potency of this product and the merger amounts needed to do the job.
I guess $10 is a hard sell when one can buy an off-the-shelf QD for $4.
Clearkote QS - I mixed to the directed proportions
Sonus Acrylic Spritz though more expensive ($15) than Z6 has no such dilutional protocol. It works great as sold
Pinnacle CM ($20) - :nono: to dilution
By diluting Z6 one is negating the functions of this wonderful QD - adding protection and enhancing gloss. Z6 diluted has basically been reduced to just a cleaning agent.
Please do not take may statements to mean that dilution does not work or even give equivalent results but I find it rather ironic that those that dilute still use full strength when layering.
Of course, the official website is the benchmark to follow but as Jon stated the science just doesn't jive. :nixweiss
I would love to be able to pull up the website from 4 years ago.
I do not believe this protocol was there. I may be wrong? I have not read about Z6 since than. I personally have never had a problem with Z6 after realizing the potency of this product and the merger amounts needed to do the job.I guess $10 is a hard sell when one can buy an off-the-shelf QD for $4.
Clearkote QS - I mixed to the directed proportions
Sonus Acrylic Spritz though more expensive ($15) than Z6 has no such dilutional protocol. It works great as sold
Pinnacle CM ($20) - :nono: to dilution
By diluting Z6 one is negating the functions of this wonderful QD - adding protection and enhancing gloss. Z6 diluted has basically been reduced to just a cleaning agent.
Please do not take may statements to mean that dilution does not work or even give equivalent results but I find it rather ironic that those that dilute still use full strength when layering.
Of course, the official website is the benchmark to follow but as Jon stated the science just doesn't jive. :nixweiss
imported_RIC
New member
The rationale behind diluting Z6 first began because many people had difficulty using it on hot surfaces and/or in strong sunlight situations. It just dried too fast. It would smear. And you would end up using more product thereby wasting it.
The best solution is not to apply it to hot surfaces/in direct sunlight but we all know that sometimes this may not be possible for a variety of reasons.
Someone who used Z6 discovered that by diluting it with distilled water it became easier to work with. The additional water allowed it to spread on a larger area and made it more economical to use.
It is not a protocol nor a necessity. I see no irony in diluting it when using it on a hot surface or using it full strength when adding another coat of polish.
The water evaporates so fast that it will have minimal impact, if any, on crosslinking and enhancing gloss. I highly doubt that any QD product adds any significant amount of protection.
As far as Clearcote QS, Sonus Acrylic Spritz, Pinnacle CM there is no way to to compare the concentrations of their active ingredients with those of Z6 to begin with, unless you have some kind of scientific equipment.
I am only familiar with QS and my gallon container looked like it was filled with less than 16 oz of active ingredients and needed water to be added to it to make a gallon of useable product.
The best solution is not to apply it to hot surfaces/in direct sunlight but we all know that sometimes this may not be possible for a variety of reasons.
Someone who used Z6 discovered that by diluting it with distilled water it became easier to work with. The additional water allowed it to spread on a larger area and made it more economical to use.
It is not a protocol nor a necessity. I see no irony in diluting it when using it on a hot surface or using it full strength when adding another coat of polish.
The water evaporates so fast that it will have minimal impact, if any, on crosslinking and enhancing gloss. I highly doubt that any QD product adds any significant amount of protection.
As far as Clearcote QS, Sonus Acrylic Spritz, Pinnacle CM there is no way to to compare the concentrations of their active ingredients with those of Z6 to begin with, unless you have some kind of scientific equipment.
I am only familiar with QS and my gallon container looked like it was filled with less than 16 oz of active ingredients and needed water to be added to it to make a gallon of useable product.
Well one thing I remember about this forum was we liked to put things to the test. Once the weather warms up around here I will do a panel to panel comparison, and advise. Firstly at full strength and second at a 50/50 ratio.
I did find that applying to a hot surface was unacceptable and therfore never did after my initial trial and error period over 3 years ago. It isn't the cost factor I'm concerned about as if we where, we would'nt be here discussing these issues and sometimes buying in excess, materials for our own comparison.
I quess the ultimate goal is to the best possible looking vehicle.
I did find that applying to a hot surface was unacceptable and therfore never did after my initial trial and error period over 3 years ago. It isn't the cost factor I'm concerned about as if we where, we would'nt be here discussing these issues and sometimes buying in excess, materials for our own comparison.
I quess the ultimate goal is to the best possible looking vehicle.
imported_memnuts
New member
RIC said:
No QD should be used on a hot surface, even at car shows. Would one wash that same hot surface?
In order a get the same crosslinking and concentration of active ingredients (polymers and gloss enhancers) in 50:50 diluted solution of Z6 one must use twice the amount of the dilute. Where is the economy? I see where the userability may be enhanced but again I refer back to the fact the no QD should be used on a hot surface.
My point here is that these examples are also prepared by their manufacturers for optimum performance and tweeking these formulation for user friendliness for adverse conditions (hot surface) should not be considered.
I am only familiar with QS and my gallon container looked like it was filled with less than 16 oz of active ingredients and needed water to be added to it to make a gallon of useable product. [/QUOTE]
A great example of a product intended, where Z6 is not, to be mixed to a certain concentration with water. Any tweeking to enhance volume or userability will take away from this product's optimum performance.
This is just my view on this subject. I am not stating that I am correct or the opposite view is wrong. Just discussing and seeking why we do things. :xyxthumbs
I understand that using products in ways which differ from the manufacturer's instructions is done at our own risk and SOMETIMES can lead to a reduction in the performance of a product. One great example would be the recommendations often given here to layer a sealant over an oily/waxy paint cleaner like VM.
In the case of Z6, I'm happy to use it diluted most of the time as my own experience it is easier to use diluted. I normally dilute 65/35, Z6 to distilled water.
Somethings to consider: I live in the south and I detail outdoors 90% of the time. Even if I start detailing at 7.00 AM by the time I am ready to apply any Z6, the sun is up and the paint is warm/hot. In these circumstances, Z6 will often "flash dry" before I can buff over the panel. Dilution is the only way Z6 works for me under these conditions.
As for dilution harming durability? I haven't notcied this myself. My consultancy business was very busy last year and on top of a full time career, I let one of my own vehicles go for 9 months before I re-applied Zaino; the vehicle was still beading at this time.
Although I accept that dilution CAN reduce the amount of active ingredients left on the paint after a Z6 spritz (depending on how much diluted Z6 you use), I do not buy the idea that water prohibits crosslinking in a significent way, afterall Zaino products are water based and down here the humidity is often over 80%. Z2Pro and Z6 still work fine for me under these conditions, just like any other solvent, water evaporates and leaves the resins to bond to the paint.
Just my 2 cents...
In the case of Z6, I'm happy to use it diluted most of the time as my own experience it is easier to use diluted. I normally dilute 65/35, Z6 to distilled water.
Somethings to consider: I live in the south and I detail outdoors 90% of the time. Even if I start detailing at 7.00 AM by the time I am ready to apply any Z6, the sun is up and the paint is warm/hot. In these circumstances, Z6 will often "flash dry" before I can buff over the panel. Dilution is the only way Z6 works for me under these conditions.
As for dilution harming durability? I haven't notcied this myself. My consultancy business was very busy last year and on top of a full time career, I let one of my own vehicles go for 9 months before I re-applied Zaino; the vehicle was still beading at this time.
Although I accept that dilution CAN reduce the amount of active ingredients left on the paint after a Z6 spritz (depending on how much diluted Z6 you use), I do not buy the idea that water prohibits crosslinking in a significent way, afterall Zaino products are water based and down here the humidity is often over 80%. Z2Pro and Z6 still work fine for me under these conditions, just like any other solvent, water evaporates and leaves the resins to bond to the paint.
Just my 2 cents...
imported_memnuts
New member
Mike, understand the heat, I'm in southern Va on NC border. :xyxthumbs
Sounds like there are legimate reasons to use Z6 in diluted form. That's what so good about this forum. Discussions about topics and presentations on why we do things.
Sounds like there are legimate reasons to use Z6 in diluted form. That's what so good about this forum. Discussions about topics and presentations on why we do things.