Would different equipment help me any?

C

cptzippy

New member
I'm a weekend warrior (and not that many weekends at that). I've been reading on here and elsewhere since about '07 learning about detailing. I haven't tried in a while but the couple of times I did I wasn't as happy I wanted to be with the results. I'm sure some of it is my technique and probably some of it was my energy level (started this when I came back injured from Iraq). That won't change soon but I might be able to upgrade my equipment.



Here's my stockpile:

PC 7363

Collection of Prima foam pads (6.5 inch)

Tangerin and Cyan LC pads (5.5 inch)

Prima Polishes (Cut, Swirl, and Prime)

OPT Hyperpolish spray



So anything that would make an amateur better
 
cptzippy- Some of the more effective polishers are *so* much better than the original PCs that it's hard to put into words.



IMO, in most cases these days, correction should simply not be a big deal, it oughta go quick and easy. From correction major flaws to getting a wonderful gloss, this stuff should no longer be a huge challenge.



Machines like the Flex 3401 and the Griot's 6" RO are simply in another class from the original PC. And products like Uno and M105, teamed with the new MF pads, are awfully impressive too.



I'm a firm believer in not fixing what isn't broken, but in your case I do believe an upgrade would be worthwhile.
 
Follow on question: Where would the best bang for the buck be - flex, pads, etc?





Of course this would be a lot easier sell to the better half if we hadn't had to pay the IRS this year instead of get a small refund. :(
 
cptzippy said:
Follow on question: Where would the best bang for the buck be - flex, pads, etc?





Of course this would be a lot easier sell to the better half if we hadn't had to pay the IRS this year instead of get a small refund. :(
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Groits DA, MF pads, maybe some Surbuf pads for hard clear and heavy correction, M105, D300, and maybe even some better/more finishing polishes/pads. You should be able to get all that for less then the cost of the Flex and be able to do that same work.
 
Accumulator said:
cptzippy- Some of the more effective polishers are *so* much better than the original PCs that it's hard to put into words.
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:werd: My original PC is now relegated to exclusive duty for machine sanding and applying wax/sealant.
 
RaskyR1 said:
Groits DA, MF pads, maybe some Surbuf pads for hard clear and heavy correction, M105, D300, and maybe even some better/more finishing polishes/pads. You should be able to get all that for less then the cost of the Flex and be able to do that same work.
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Yeah, though I'd just get the MF cutting pads and skip the SurBuf ones, and I'd get Uno instead of the D300. That's just personal preference stuff though, the big thing is that overall the Griot's probably be a better choice than the Flex 3401 if you're only gonna buy one or the other. There are periodic sales on the Griot's too, sometimes you can get one pretty cheap.
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, though I'd just get the MF cutting pads and skip the SurBuf ones, and I'd get Uno instead of the D300. That's just personal preference stuff though, the big thing is that overall the Griot's probably be a better choice than the Flex 3401 if you're only gonna buy one or the other. There are periodic sales on the Griot's too, sometimes you can get one pretty cheap.
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The cutting ability of the Surbuf is noticeably higher than the MF, especially on really hard clears and you don't need heavy pressure with Surbuf either. While I definitely prefer to use MF, Surbuf definitely has their place, and IMO should be in every detailers arsenal for DA correction. ;)
 
So Uno would be a better choice than the OPT Hyperpolish I have now.



Cars I'd be working on - 2007 Acura MDX in Nimbus Grey, 1994 Jaguar XJS in Glacial White
 
captzippy- Heh heh, can't help with that Q as I've never worked on those paints :nixweiss



RaskyR1 said:
The cutting ability of the Surbuf is noticeably higher than the MF..
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It's weird, but I didn't get the same results with the SurBufs that others do :confused: That's why I put in that "just personal preference" disclaimer.



After chatting with Kevin Brown about it, I revisited the SurBufs, but nope....I do much better with the MF cutting pads for some reason. Probably just user-error, but it does't really matter to me as I can do anything I'll ever need to without 'em. Guess the SurBuf approach just isn't, uhm....Accumulator-proof :grinno:
 
Heard good things about both the flex and griots reading on here. With the flex being a little over twice as much as the griots, what would justify that premium?
 
cptzippy said:
Heard good things about both the flex and griots reading on here. With the flex being a little over twice as much as the griots, what would justify that premium?
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Not much justifies the Flex at this point, unless you prefer working with foam pads instead of MF pads or Surbufs.
 
cptzippy said:
Heard good things about both the flex and griots reading on here. With the flex being a little over twice as much as the griots, what would justify that premium?
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Compare this to C. Charles Hahn's reply:



The Flex and be considerably more aggressive with the same pad/product combos, so it can do the serious correction work faster (with the same combos).



You can often use a more aggressive combo with the Griot's to make up the diff, but that might not leave as nice a finish, so you'd end up doing more follow up work.



But the Flex doesn't leave as nice a final finish either. It can be handy to have the Flex when you're doing a big job on a messed up vehicle, but most people can get by just fine with the Griot's, which will probably leave things nicer in the end anyhow. That final finish is why I put in the "if you're only buying one" disclaimer; using the Flex for the serious compounding and following up with the Griot's makes for a nice combo!



Shopping list then:

Griot Polisher

MF Pads (OPT? 5.5 inch?)

HD UNO or Megs 105
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IME, with the Griot's it's not as critical that you use the smaller 5.5" pads, and I was *NOT* prepared to say that either but experience showed me that my assumptions were wrong. Not saying it wouldn't sometimes be a good idea, but it's not critical as with a PC.



Between Uno and M105....eh, I can't really say :nixweiss The Uno is sure a lot more user-friendly!
 
From an economic standpoint--With your first 6 pack of 5.5" pads you save almost enough to buy a 5" backing plate ($35 vs $50) so every pad purchase after that you are ahead.
 
cptzippy,



Lots of folks have provided some interesting advice. While I might have missed it, I don't understand you mean by:

I wasn't as happy I wanted to be with the results.
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Specifically what is the issue you're seeing? Not correcting big scratches? Spider webs all over the place? Just not shiny? Please be specific.



Regards,



Dan.



p.s. I have a PC that has done some good work on an Audi, a Toyota RAV 4 and two Subarus. I use Menzerna polishes and Zaino sealants. I've been very happy with the results. So the issue may not be with your polisher. It could be pads, backing plate, polishes, or LSP. That said, after looking at your other post about the Jag, you might want to use a Flex polisher for that. But it's hard to tell without more information.
 
Pics make it hard to tell but here was my first attempt at my wife's almost new MDX (which we still have)

IMG_0904.jpg




Here's the 3 year old Mini I had at the time:

IMG_0890.jpg




Hard to tell but you could still see some swirls when I was done.
 
cptzippy,



To paraphrase the famous line in Jaws*, "You're going to need a bigger polisher!" Or maybe not... I don't have any experience with the polishes that you're using. For the MDX, you may be fine. But for the Jag, you'll need something more serious, IMO.



As a starting point, I'd suggest trying a different brand of polishes with your current polisher. I prefer Menzerna polishes. Mine are the old style - IP (Intensive Polish) and FPII (Final Polish II). Currently I think these equate to IP 2000 - Intensive Polish PO91E and FF 3000 - Final Finish PO85U. Here's a chart comparing the agressiveness of several polishes including Prima and Menzerna: http://www.autopiaforums.com/Todd-Helme/polish-chart.jpg. This is a descriptive page showing the different menzerna polishes: Menzerna USA: The World's Finest Polishing Materials. Here's another comparison chart: http://www.menzernausa.com/Charts/Liquid Summary 2012.tiff. I think you'll want something pretty aggressive like Menzerna SI 1500 - Super Intensive Polish PO83 or maybe even PG 1000 - PowerGloss S34A. You might try a new polish before getting a new polisher.



Next is the question of the Flex 3401 or the Griot 6" polishers. From what I understand, both have an 8mm orbit. (I know the 3401 has that orbit and believe the Griot's does also.) That's one of the things that make them aggressive. OTOH, the Flex is a forced rotation DA whereas the Griot is a standard DA. The Flex will be more aggressive with foam polishing pads. (However neither are rotary polishers.)



I just ordered a Flex 3401 Sunday after reviewing a lot of polishers, to replace my current PC. So I'm a bit biased. But the 3401 has the power, features and handling that I want and the Griots did not.



One less than obvious feature on the Flex is the variable speed trigger. This means that you can feather the speed for the more sensitive spots and then go full bore on the tougher spots. I never appreciated that feature until I got a Mirka Ceros sander. Instead of fiddling with a speed control wheel, you just set the maximum speed and then feather the paddle when needed. It makes for much more efficient sanding and I understand that the same applies to polishing. I believe the Griot's polisher does NOT have this feature.



Here's a comparison of the Flex vs the Griot's polisher: Flex3401 vs Griot's Garage 6" ROP - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum.



Good luck with your decision.



Regards,



Dan.



* You're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat - Jaws (4/10) Movie CLIP (1975) HD - YouTube
 
captzippy- Even with the Jag's needs, I still sorta think that the Griot's is the better idea. But OK, I won't really argue against the Flex. After all, I *did* use the Flex for the aggressive work on my (white) Crown Vic.



So I could also argue *for* the Flex, along the lines of "anything that makes the tough jobs go easier...".
 
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