Wool pad scratches

E

esahlin

New member
Ive been struggling with some small random looking small scratches that end up in my paint finish after using M105 and the W4000 MeGuiars wool pad with a rotary. The scratches actually look like a "texture" type of thing. So I am trying to figure out what is causing this cause I cannot buff them out. When I finish buffing with M105 with the wool W4000 pad and then M82 with MeGuiars yellow foam the finish looks like a mirror. But in the sunlight when you look very very closely at the surface at about a 45 degree angle or so you can see a small scratch texture in the paint.



Its difficult to describe the scratches but here goes:



Ive just painted some small engine compartment sheetmetal with 3 coats of black single stage followed by three coats of clear (a fairly soft clear).



Ive wetsanded with the clear with 1500, 2000, 2500 and 4000. I originally thought the texture I am seeing was left over wetsanding marks but Ive tried different types of paper, used the 3M finishing film with an orbital etc so I am not convinced its sanding marks. Ive done a seperate test starting with M85 on the wool pad and get the same texture after M82. As a seperate test Ive used 3M Super Duty on a seperate spot and it cuts the sanding scratches right out. Ive then followed the Super Duty up with the M105 on the the wool pad then the M82 on yellow foam. Finish is a mirror but the scratch texture still shows up at the right angle in the sun. I have washed my W4000 pad before each applicateion of M105 so Ive ruled out a dirty wool pad.



So, I am thinking the W4000 wool pad is causing this texture problem. Has anyone experienced problem with wool pads doing this or can anyone else think of anything that could be causing my problem?



I'm asking this to get some ideas before I go out and buy different pads or compounds. Some excellent people have already recommended different pad to try but Ive already thrown a ton of money at the problem in different sandpapers and even a different clearcoat to try so I am trying to get a handle on whats causing my problem so that the next amount of $ I spend I am will end up getting exactly what I need. THanks. :buffing:
 
I usually try to do 1000 rpm to 1500 rpm on the rotary speed. (Chicago electric Harbor Freight rotary). Ive tried higher speeds and lower speeds to no real benefit. I have several of the black pieces I have painted so I have tried several different tests of speed, compounds and pads.



THe amount of M105: Ive tried priming the pad or dispensing a thin bead all around the outer edge of the wool pad and working it in with my fingers. then I put a thin line bead across my work area. Work area is about 5 inches wide by two feet long. Ive also tried less M105 or small dots on the work area and no wool pad priming.



On the 5 inch wide by two feet long work area I try to make slow passes left to right....about 2 seconds to the right then 2 seconds tracing back over the area to the left. I try to quit after I see the M105 about dissapear.



I just tried again this morning.....starting with the MeGuiars maroon foam pad and 105.....after sanding with 1000, 1500,2000 and 2500 wet. Still leaving scratches that something like M82 wont take out.



Pretty frustrating cause I cant tell what the problem is. Could be left over wet sanding scratches or else the rotary/pad/M105 combo is leaving pretty deep scratches in the finish that are only visible at certain angles.
 
You know....I havent added an extra step after M105/ M82 with anything because I am under the impression that the swirls, scratches, texture or whatever it is that is left over will not be able to be removed with something like 3M UltraFina or Menzerna FPII. Is that correct?
 
See if the picture posts up.....I might be too new of a member.



In the pic....thats after M105 with wool pad and M82 yellow foam pad. It looks awesome straight on but looking at it at the correct angle in the correct light you can see the small texture scratches.
 

Attachments

  • P1010041.jpg
    P1010041.jpg
    66.3 KB · Views: 203
Do you own a D/A?



Almost sounds like you're talking about holograms from a rotary which is possible mainly due to the Meguiars Yellow pad. I've never had much luck finishing on black paint (esp not fresh black paint) with that pad.



However, I don't really consider holograms to be a "texture" soo much, your description of only being able to see it at certain angles in the light makes a pretty strong case for them. Generally sanding marks you'll be able to see at just about any angle.
 
esahlin said:
On the 5 inch wide by two feet long work area I try to make slow passes left to right....about 2 seconds to the right then 2 seconds tracing back over the area to the left. I try to quit after I see the M105 about dissapear.
Click to expand...



Sounds like you might be overbuffing and micromarring from the product drying out. Have you ever tried making 2-3 quick passes and inspecting the surface after? I've used this product with wool and every time I overbuff, I'll lay down a little more product and make a few more passes to clear the surface. and knock down the pad marring.
 
Perhaps the M82/yellow is just too mild for what the M105 is leaving behind. I sometimes have to use a surprisingly aggressive step after M105, something like M205/orange.
 
AudiOn19s: Unfortunately, I dont have a D/A. This is my first time trying to finish/buff out my own painting so I dont really know what the proper term is to call what Im seeing so my "texture" word could be wrong.





David Fermani: I could be overbuffing with the M105. I seem to get the same result with M85 (Diamond cut)....meaning I am getting the same resulting small scratches only seen in certain light and angles. M85 seems to have a bit longer work time than M105. Ive probably tried 7-8 passes with M105 and whatever results from my 1st and second passes with M105 just doesnt seem to buff out.



To add: When I first used M105 and wool.....Because I was getting these resulting scratches I was under the impression that the M105 doesnt cut out scratches worth a darn. Then I read several stories of the great success that people are having with M105 so then I started questioning my technique/wool pad etc.
 
Accumulator: Thats one thing I have thought about: that M82 wasnt strong enough after M105 and the wool. I checked the MeGuiars aggressiveness of cut chart and I believe the M205 and M82 are rated at a level 4 of cut but that might not matter I guess. Should I look to use something more aggressive than 205 but less aggessive than M105? Something in between? And then proceed to M205?



Thanks for everyones ideas cause I am beyond frustrated with this whole process. Its been a serious thorn in my side.
 
esahlin said:
Accumulator: Thats one thing I have thought about: that M82 wasnt strong enough after M105 and the wool. I checked the MeGuiars aggressiveness of cut chart and I believe the M205 and M82 are rated at a level 4 of cut but that might not matter I guess. Should I look to use something more aggressive than 205 but less aggessive than M105? Something in between? And then proceed to M205?
Click to expand...



Even though a few products rate a "4" on that scale (m205, M80, dunno bout M82), IMO there's still a difference in how they perform, at least in some cases.



M105/wool...eh...I haven't tried that *via rotary* but I have used M105/wool with my PC/4". It *definitely* needed a strong follow-up; I did M105/polishing foam before I stepped down to m205/orange and *then* M205 on a soft pad.



M205, used with an orange pad, is often my post-M105 step. Or the *Griot's* orange pad, whichis between a regular orange and a polishing pad. I find the M205 works surprisingly well with a somewhat aggressive pad, and can clear up things that a milder combo just doesn't fix. Normally I don't use aggressive pads with products as mild as M205 but the M205 is an exception to that rule; it's very versatile that way IME.



BTW, while *I* don't finish out via rotary, some people who do tell me that M205 is tricky to get 100% hologram-free. But it *should* get things to that "nothing left but light holograms" point. I think you just need to experiment with different pads in between the M105/wool and your very gentle final combo.
 
Polished and Waxed: Ive thought about that.....It think it shouldnt be a problem cause I used an epoxy primer sealer over the 2K Urethane primer I used for sanding/leveling. On top of the bare metal I used epoxy primer then the 2K Urethane primer then the epoxy priemr sealer. I sanded the epoxy sealer with 800 grit wet before applying my single stage. (Single stage manufacturer recommended sanding with 600-800 grit before single stage application).





Another thing I thought of was the M105 and the M82 and M85 I bought were in 8 oz sample ketchup bottles. I wonder if the contents came from a larger container that maybe wasnt mixed or shaken well enough before being put into the smaller bottles.....could poorly mixed product give me these bad results? I actually think this is a factor. :buffing:



I actually think I am going to give up on the meguiars (caused me way to much pain ....I shouldnt be having this much trouble) and get some proven menzerna PG, IP and Final Polish II and some new Lake country CCS white foam, Grey foam and a PFW pad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top