With polymer's, what's your priority? Durability, shine or ease-of-use? I......

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by carguy [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>ZFX may save Zaino, but without it is a royal PITA. You need multiple coats - but you can't drive yoiur car while the suff is sitting there drying. I don't have that much time nor am I willing to do that much work. T

As for ease of use, nothing, Zaino included, that I have tried, is easier than Pinnacle Souveran. wipes on very easily, buff it out with no waiting, buffs out easily too. Shine is easily as good as Zaino. But it is a carnauba - perhaps won't last very long. I still use Meguiar's Gold Class polymer blend - it DOES like to sit on the car for an hour before buffing, but one coat is enough, shine is as good as Zaino (see my test and see if you can tell the difference), and longevity is "reasonable." I apply it and buff it out with the orbital - pretty painless.

Can't speak for Klasse which also gets good reviews - I just haven't used it. [/b]</blockquote>
Carguy, I'm not sure if I follow. One of your gripes of Z is that you can't drive your car while it's drying? Do you, by any chance mean curing? Does that mean you drive your car around while waiting for Gold class to dry? Furthermore, you say you don't have the time nor are you willing to do "that much work". But at the same time you are willing to use a wax that lasts two weeks at the most? I'm sorry, but I'd consider applying 1 or 2 coats of Zaino that will last me months and months as less work and less time consuming. No flames intended here...just not sure what you mean.

I agree with most of what you say about Souveran...however, I believe Paste Glaz is even easier.

Also, one does not "need" multiple coats of Zaino. Furthermore, at least it IS layerable, unlike other carnaubas which generally have a high solvent content and provide only marginal improvement with layered coats. Once again, no flames intended. I've seen your detailing jobs and I respect your abilities. It's just that I thought you were being a bit unfair with Zaino. ZFX may save Zaino? Hmm, I didn't know Zaino was in trouble. On the contrary, I think it's at the height of its popularity.
 
BRAVO to all! I love this stuff.



More opinions please!



I can only say what my opinions are not someone elses and I assume most people here state theirs as well not what they read or get from other sources.



The true test is to try the stuff out. Like mamma FLONI says "Try it honey you may like it". Or was that mamma guess?



Oh well try them all. I am on that quest as we speak. More coats of K on the GF white blazer lateer this week before I go to Atlanta!
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Cybercowboy [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Durability, shine, or ease-of-use?


Rad21, as for all the Z's - well, that's why I try to refer to the non-finish stuff by the product name such as Leather In A Bottle instead of Z10 (or whatever...) All there really is to keep straight is Z1, Z2 and Z5. How hard is that? Cripes.
[/b]</blockquote>
From the Zaino site:Z-5 can be used right over Z-2. They are completely compatible and interchangeable. For the highest optical paint enhancement always follow up Z-5 with a coat of Z-2.
Each ZFXâ„¢ kit comes with a 2ml vial of accelerator mix and several 2 ounce mixing bottles. A single ZFXâ„¢ kit provides enough mix to accommodate 16 ounces of Zaino Show Car Polish.

Pour one to two ounces of Show Car Polish into a 2 ounce mixing bottle. For each ounce of polish, add 4 to 5 drops of ZFXâ„¢ (no more than 10 drops for two full ounces), screw the cap back on, and shake vigorously for 60 to 90 seconds.

While you get your towels and applicators ready, allow the ZFXâ„¢ enabled Zaino Show Car Polish to sit for five minutes so the ZFXâ„¢ can begin activating the polish. Give the applicator bottle a final shake for 10 seconds before using.


So I apply Z-1, then use Z-2, then Z-5, then Z-2 again. Plus, I have to mix in ZXF with Z-2 and Z-5? This is starting to sound like a chemistry class. Now I'll need a stopwatch and mixing containers too, Blackfire or Klasse is a lot easier.
 
carguy writes:

"ZFX may save Zaino, but without it is a royal PITA. You need multiple coats - but you can't drive yoiur car while the suff is sitting there drying. I don't have that much time nor am I willing to do that much work."


"You need multiple coats." False, you do not have to apply multiple coats...that is an individual choice made by each user.

ZFX may save Zaino???? I didn't know Zaino was in trouble. Maybe you have some inside information about their sales that you can share with us?

...but without it [ZFX] is a real PITA...Not if applied correctly...you can't glob it on like it is wax like you did in your test(Zaino is on the right side of the picture)...I have never needed to wait longer than 15 minutes before wiping off any residue.
Many people emailed you that you put it on too thick. In the picture I linked there is enough Zaino polish on the Zaino side to do a full size whole hood. If applied correctly you should barely see that there is anything there. More is NOT better with Zaino polish.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gheumann/zaino_test/images/wax_on_2_1024.jpg
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by rad21 [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>
So I apply Z-1, then use Z-2, then Z-5, then Z-2 again. Plus, I have to mix in ZXF with Z-2 and Z-5? This is starting to sound like a chemistry class. Now I'll need a stopwatch and mixing containers too, Blackfire or Klasse is a lot easier. [/b]</blockquote>
Hey Cybercowboy, is this almost nostalgic?:

"Not much chemistry involved in mixing two liquids. Can I have some NaCl with those fries?? How about some more H2O?" :D

Hehe, sorry rad21, just kidding. Just use Z-5 if you have swirls and use Z-2 if you can't see any swirls. As for ZFX, use it if you are into layering more than one coat a day. If not, just just use Z-1 twice a year. Some people (especially in the corvette forum) are a bit nuts about Zaino and so they try all kinds of Z-5, Z-2 combos. I personally use Z-5 exclusively. To be honest, one of the biggest complaints of people using Zaino is that it gets boring, not complicated. Actually, that's one of my biggest complaints as well. And to overcome that, I'm going to <gasp!> apply Souveran (gasp!) over a Zaino'd car as soon as I burn through a bottle of Z-5 mixed with ZFX.
 
It's really quite easy. After the car is properly prepped (should do this before applying any sealant), apply Z1 on the car. This acts as a very mild pre cleaner, but more importantly, it interacts with the zaino Z2 or Z5 and helps bond it to the paint better. After you apply Z1, apply Z2 or Z5 right over it. Z2 and Z5 are very similar, but Z5 is a thicker polish and hides swirls better by filling them in stages. You can use either, and interchange as often as you want. After that, let dry, and buff off. Now when you want to add more coats just add a coat of Z2 or Z5 and remove......easy as that. After 5-10 coats or 6 months, apply Z1 again before applying the next coat of Z2 or Z5. Got it?!? For best results and a 3D effect, use Z6 spray detailer just before applying the next coat of Z2 or Z5.................



Now if you go ZFX route, Z1 is not required. You mix the ZFX with Z2 and layer on as many as 3 coats in one day. ZFX gives an instant cure so you do not have to wait 24 hours between coats for the full layering effect.



Hope this helps
 
OK, OK - i was being snotty. let me clarify:

Cybercowboy - no problem - your feedback is completely welcome. I should be more clear- I don't think Zaino is hard to <strong class='bbc'>use[/b]. It does indeed wipe right on and buff right off once it has cured. Not as easy as Souveran, but as easy as MG stuff. But I still think it is a pain in the butt - at least to get going with it. In an earlier test you guys never saw I compared a single coat of the stuff to a single coat of something else, and reported i couldn't see a difference. Everyone complained to me that I wasn't being fair - that to get the "real" benefit you had to layer it on. So in my published test I did Z1 plus 2 x Z5 plus 1 of Z2. Before each coat I had to make sure the car was very clean, 'cuz I aint gonna rub on dirty paint. THAT was the PITA I was referring to. And I still couldn't see any difference, nor could any of the "blind taste testers" I invited to figure out which part of my car was Zaino'd and which was Meguiar'd. (The overwhelming majority picked the Meguiar's by the way, and I swear I didn't give them any cues.) Nor did the camera see any difference.

RIC: No, I didn't get a lot of emails saying I put it on too thick. The pic you refer to was the second coat of Z5. I applied the 1st thinner, but since Z5 is supposed to hide swirls and there was ZERO evidence of that after the 1st coat, I decided to try it a little thicker. Recognize that the camera is really, really amplifying everything here - those swirls weren't even visible outside - so it really isn't as thick as it looks. If it was too thick - that would as you point out extend the drying/curing time. But as Sal himself points out, drying time is mostly a factor of your particular environment's humidity and temperature. Your experience may not be all that relevant to mine.

Look - I don't think Zaino is BAD. It is right up there with the best products I've used. But it isn't BETTER, and so I have a huge issue on principle - I think its hype is way out of line with its reality and I tend to get incensed when I think people are being taken advantage of. It's a personal hang-up.

I have said all along that otghers may get different results - on different colors and/or different mfg's paints. All I know is nobody can find the Zaino'd quarter of my car.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by DETAILKING [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>It's really quite easy. After the car is properly prepped (should do this before applying any sealant), apply Z1 on the car. This acts as a very mild pre cleaner, but more importantly, it interacts with the zaino Z2 or Z5 and helps bond it to the paint better. After you apply Z1, apply Z2 or Z5 right over it. Z2 and Z5 are very similar, but Z5 is a thicker polish and hides swirls better by filling them in stages. You can use either, and interchange as often as you want. After that, let dry, and buff off. Now when you want to add more coats just add a coat of Z2 or Z5 and remove......easy as that. After 5-10 coats or 6 months, apply Z1 again before applying the next coat of Z2 or Z5. Got it?!? For best results and a 3D effect, use Z6 spray detailer just before applying the next coat of Z2 or Z5.................

Now if you go ZFX route, Z1 is not required. You mix the ZFX with Z2 and layer on as many as 3 coats in one day. ZFX gives an instant cure so you do not have to wait 24 hours between coats for the full layering effect.

Hope this helps [/b]</blockquote>DETAILKING,
Muchas gracias my friend, that definitely helped-you should redesign the Zaino website instructions, orders will increase by 100%:cool:
 
the day you apply it. You have to live with for a few weeks appreciate it's best qualities. To this date my car keeps looking better with every carwash........I can't explain it....it just "does."
 
I should'a known, but it was not my intention to pit one product against the next, just to see what was best for my personal application, but I do love the friendly debate! You guys are the most civil forum around, all the other forums tend to want to fly out to the other guy's state and fight him over something they really don't even care about!!! (I've had guys want to kick-my-*ss

over my opinions on Bimmers, by the way which I have) Like I said, it's very surprising all the different opinions you gentlemen (and ladies) have, seeing as how I rate you all as semi-proffesional and proffesional detailers by virtue of you being here.

(Especially the "Veterans") I respect Carguys opinions, by virtue of his love for very nice sports cars and the time and effort it took him to test and post his results, as I respect all of your opinions.

To tell you the truth, I love the debate and diversified responses

because this forum would be VERY BORING if we all liked Zaino or Klasse, ect. I will admit, the Zaino users are VERY loyal, to the point of being "fanatical". Klasse users normally say they like the product and that's it. Question for the Zaino users, do you think some of the Zaino users try to "justify" the slight increase in price, (over the other products) ease-of-use and complexity to the point of going "overboard" in their support for the product, or is Zaino really that good and they want others to experience the same results also? I really wish I could try some of the stuff, if anybody wants to send me a small sample (enough to test on a panel) I'll pay for the shipping. (I work at Fedex so I'll use my company discount) I think all the products are good, I'm trying to replace the FirstFinish polymer I used a couple months ago. (It was "Ok", but I think Klasse or Zaino will kick it's butt!) Sorry so long.
 
you started a good one is right!!....:) All I'll say is if you dont think any klasse users ever get"upset", then post that you couldnt buff it out or you had trouble with applying it "as directed". I mean some have posted "haze " problems and the first guy that did it got flamed...until others chimed in with similar problems.



Anyway you cant have any of my Z cause it is my "lifeblood" and when the big bomb drops(not by birdies) and you all try to break down my bomb shelter door to get my Zaino(ZFX an regular) you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands...;) :p :eek:
 
I love detailing my cars. The reason I use Zaino is the fantastic results I have received. The cost is not a factor of which product I use. The results are. Maybe because I have a medical background the so-called complexicity of Zaino usage is great. I have globbed on carnuba products for over 30 years looking for the results that I'm getting with the Z. Yes, I had to try a few deviations from the basic directions ( Z2 x 3 then Z5 x5,then Z2/Z5 combo then Z1/Z2 ,etc) to get the results I wanted --Showcar Shine and depth. What I'm trying to say is that Zaino usage is a stimulating adventure in car detailing. I can see the same type of adventure with Klasse ( which topper carnuba works best ).

Basically, what I'm stating is that car detailing is a hobby a form of relaxation and gratification. There are enough time pressured events in our lives without adding our hobby to this list. If Zaino took 3 hrs to dry I would still use it .While I waited for it to dry I am sure I could find something else to detail on my car. The use of a sealant should be based on your personal conditions in which you must detail your car. Without a clean garage Zaino might be a problem in the cold weather. But this problem can be solved by applying during the fall and just washing and QD'ing all winter.

Right now I have 1 car with carnuba and one car with Zaino. The Zaino shine,depth and durability is superior. But the carnuba looks great also. The Zaino is for my show-off car and the carnuba is for the working horse go to church on Sunday car. I think it is a sin to be flashy;).

Choose what is best for your situation and end result needs and run with it. Zaino, Klasse, BF, carnuba, etc are all good products, from what I have read on this forum. Your technique , love and hard work in detailling your car will be the deciding factor for how your car appears. There are no miracle products out there .:cool:
 
Lately things have been friendly, but we all still stick by our products. What bothered me the most is when I tried KLASSE and had some concerns and trouble with use I got flamed to death, till others chimed in with the same problems. Now most of the "flamers" don't post here anymore, so it's not fair to point the finger. What happened, is that the directions that came with my KLASSE (either from klasse of one of the distributers) were very poor. I worked through it with tips from people on this board and finally had very nice results with a lot less effort! I agree there are zaino flamers out there too that are very critical, but most of the zaino users find it interesting if people have concerns or trouble with the product and try to help. I really respect SAL's business plan. He always puts quality first. He tested ZFX for over 3 years fine tuning it before it hit the shelves, both in the lab, himself, and a large part by his users. This shows the best usage techniques, what it can and can't do,etc,etc,etc. It's idiot proof! He might be slow in releasing his new products, but let me tell you they are worth the wait.
 
Carguy, thanks for clarifying. At least you took the time to try an objective test. And your impressive detailing abilities are there for all to see.



Rad21, I think the best way to put the ZZZZZZZ issue to rest is this: All the instructions on applying Z seem to be overwhelming at times. However, once you actually follow them you very quickly pick up the process and start refining it. I think DK once said that "Hey, at least they tell you how to use it!" Maybe too precisely, but sometimes too much information is better than too little. Kind of like when you overhear your parents talk about sex - TOO MUCH INFORMATION!



I really don't think Zaino is all that expensive at about $2 a coat tops (counting Z1, Z2/Z5, Z6, Z7). But that is my personal opinion. Certainly no worse than Blackfire, which also seems reasonable to me. Klasse seems to be pretty darn economical - I'll give it the edge on that. What do you get, 80 coats for $40 or something? If I was a teenager again I would certainly look at price first. Then again, if I was a teenager again I would most likely be concerned about other stuff...Hey baby...



To everyone else: The reason this forum is so great is exactly because we can all agree or disagree with an aire of civility.
 
Frankly, I'm a little dumbfounded whenever I hear someone say that Zaino is "just too complicated" or "takes too long." I started using it about 4 months ago, three days after I picked up my new black Type S. I wasn't overwhelmed at first (maybe because the car looked so good already), but I've become more impressed with each use. And it just gets easier and easier, and smoother and shinier.



For years I used Eagle One carnauba paste on my metallic grey 90 Maxima SE, and it got people's attention. Then I couldn't find it any more, so I went to Meguiar's No. 26. Also produced a very nice look. But once I tried the Z, there's been nothing else on my new baby. It's easy on, easy off, it lasts (or at least it seems to, since I can't seem to go more than a week or two without another coat), it's slick as snot, and it shines like mad. Acura's Nighthawk Black Pearl has a metallic blue undertone, and after all this Z, in the right light it just freakin' GLOWS.



A few weeks ago, I offered to detail my sister-in-law's black 96 Avenger, after I ran the back of my finger over her spoiler and it felt like sandpaper. While she was shopping, I did a Dawn wash, Z claybar, wash, Z1, Z5, Z6 and Meguiar's tire gel. Total time about 5 hours, including brushing out all the white residue from everywhere from her prior wax jobs (and quite a few breaks for the sake of my tequila hangover - love ya, Don Julio!). She was so floored when she got back that she went and bought a bra (for the car;) ) the next day because she didn't want to get bug guts on it.



To each his own, but for me it's about the process (therapy) and the results (satisfaction). So far, the Z has fit the bill the best.
 
Carguy, thanks for clearing that up. It takes a big person to admit that perhaps he was being bit "snotty" instead of starting a big flaming session. Although I'm sorry you didn't get the results that I did using Zaino, I'm glad you are getting great results with MGC and PSouv. By the way, I just ordered two bottles of Z-5 and ZFX.
 
... welcome to the board. It's good to have another KC-er around here! Where do you live? I'm smack in midtown between Westport and the Plaza.



Sorry for being a bit off-topic. I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of "Polymer Priority."



:D
 
Very good info indeed. Zaino has proven itself to be a very fine product for me. Its not my overall favorite product or system but it does the job pretty well. One of the things that I do like about it is that it is pretty easy to use. I think its the Z names that gives the impression that it is difficult to work with or requires numerous steps. Not a bad system at all. Laters
 
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