Why?

Here is where there is disconnect with people on the forums. Not everyone wants paint correction. Yet everyone who has vomit in their car wants it out. Guys that detail cars with some regularity understand what the customer wants. 9 times out of 10 they are looking for a clean car. Not a corrected car. It seems like guys with high post counts spend more time on auto detailing sites deciding what customers should want on their cars instead of actually dealing with customers and listening to what they want.



Am I a real detailer? YES Is Afterglow a real auto detailing company? YES Do most of your customers want Paint correction? NO Do most of your customers just want you to just leave the vomit in the backseat? NO Are you saying more people are interested in removing stains and smells from their interior than making sure all swirls have been removed from their paint? ABSOLUTELY



I see the term "wash and wax guy" used a lot here in negative terms. There is a lot more to auto detailing then just paint correction. I don't have 33,000 posts online but I do have a nice little mobile detailing business.
 
rustytruck said:
Here is where there is disconnect with people on the forums. Not everyone wants paint correction. Yet everyone who has vomit in their car wants it out. Guys that detail cars with some regularity understand what the customer wants. 9 times out of 10 they are looking for a clean car. Not a corrected car. It seems like guys with high post counts spend more time on auto detailing sites deciding what customers should want on their cars instead of actually dealing with customers and listening to what they want.



Am I a real detailer? YES Is Afterglow a real auto detailing company? YES Do most of your customers want Paint correction? NO Do most of your customers just want you to just leave the vomit in the backseat? NO Are you saying more people are interested in removing stains and smells from their interior than making sure all swirls have been removed from their paint? ABSOLUTELY



I see the term "wash and wax guy" used a lot here in negative terms. There is a lot more to auto detailing then just paint correction. I don't have 33,000 posts online but I do have a nice little mobile detailing business.
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I think you hit the nail on the head here, the difference between boutique detail work and volume is simply customer expectations and needs. I personally prefer greatly to do paint correction work to nasty interiors, but I realize in my market clean interiors and shiny exteriors are where the money is at.



I don't "put down" any of the local detail shops, I simply try to improve my services to the point where people will choose my higher priced packages instead of theirs.



Example: there is a non profit organization in my area that runs two "detail shops" which offers "$65 full details" and is constantly SWAMPED with people purchasing their services. All of the boutique guys are by now going "omg how horrible off with their heads!", well the kicker is that this group employs disadvantaged, rehabilitating, and mentally challenged people, in an effort to give them meaningful work.



I do not see them as a competitor, in fact I think that what they are doing is a great thing! First of all, anyone who is not willing to pay more than $65 for a details is not someone I want as a client, secondly, if it gives people who need jobs a place to work, and gives people who don't want to pay a lot a "clean and shiny" car, what is the problem?



My point: we as detailers waste a lot of time trashing people that do "lesser" work than us, when they are really just people trying to make it in this world. There are PLENTY of cars to clean for PLENTY of different budget level clients. Competition is good, but why can't we just agree to live and let live?



Its like getting upset when the guy with the beat up pickup truck with the push mower and weed eater in the back is not doing as good as work as the professional lawn service with commercial grade zero turn mowers, and then complaining because the guy with the push mower charges less!



You get what you pay for, but that doesn't mean that the guy with the beat up pickup truck shouldn't be allowed to do business...
 
The last two posts before this, "excellent-real world" understanding of what the detailing industry is today.

Not everyone wants the "perfect finish" or such.

Mike, and I guess Mark, you guys got the real world, you deal in the real world, my hat if off to both of you.

And, I'll bet when that customer who comes in and wants the "perfect detail", you can provide it for a realistic cost for the amount of labor and such required.

Grumpy
 
rustytruck said:
Here is where there is disconnect with people on the forums. Not everyone wants paint correction. Yet everyone who has vomit in their car wants it out. Guys that detail cars with some regularity understand what the customer wants. 9 times out of 10 they are looking for a clean car. Not a corrected car. It seems like guys with high post counts spend more time on auto detailing sites deciding what customers should want on their cars instead of actually dealing with customers and listening to what they want.



Am I a real detailer? YES Is Afterglow a real auto detailing company? YES Do most of your customers want Paint correction? NO Do most of your customers just want you to just leave the vomit in the backseat? NO Are you saying more people are interested in removing stains and smells from their interior than making sure all swirls have been removed from their paint? ABSOLUTELY



I see the term "wash and wax guy" used a lot here in negative terms. There is a lot more to auto detailing then just paint correction. I don't have 33,000 posts online but I do have a nice little mobile detailing business.
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Is that supposed to be some sort of snipe against Accumulator and/or Scottwax?



I love how suddenly high post count = not a successful "real detailer." That's a real slap in the face to a lot of us here, so thanks for that! :rolleyes:
 
I don't see the post by IHA Mark as a "slap in the face", but one of reality.

Each "professional detailer" operates in "their market place", which may be an entirely different market place than others.

If a detailer has been in business and making a living for more than 3 or 4 years, they are reacting in a business like manner to that market place.

Each of these detailers who have been able to produce a profit and stay in business for those years have learned what the market place expects and will pay. They are good enough business people to adjust their personal feelings, wants and desires regarding a "detail", to meet the expectations of that market.

That's doesn't make them a "hack" or such, just smart business people in my opinion.

Grumpy
 
Ron, I was talking about Mike's post, not Mark's.



"It seems like guys with high post counts spend more time on auto detailing sites deciding what customers should want on their cars instead of actually dealing with customers and listening to what they want."



"I don't have 33,000 posts online but I do have a nice little mobile detailing business."



Those statements aren't a snipe/slap in the face? Really?
 
Life is to short for an old fart like me to take such as serious.

We all say things, sometimes they fit the subject, other times we go beyond the subject and others we are like my old mind, "just forget what I meant to say".

That's doesn't make one a bad person, just the way life is.

Grumpy
 
rustytruck said:
Not everyone wants paint correction. 9 times out of 10 they are looking for a clean car. Not a corrected car. It seems like guys with high post counts spend more time on auto detailing sites deciding what customers should want on their cars instead of actually dealing with customers and listening to what they want.
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While I tend to agree with you somewhat, I also think alot of detailers leave quite a bit of money on the table by being an order taker instead of a saleperson. i.e. Upselling. How can a customer tell you what they want when they might not even be aware of what is available? If people take the time to educate a prospect it will do alot of positive things for not just them, but the industry. How many times do we try educating our clients on the proper care of their paint or interior? I tell my prospects that I will be doing a dis-service to them if they spend the money and the time to have me get their paint looking near perfect when they aren't willing to put in the effort to maintain it. I gaurantee if we offered to do more clay demonstrations and 50/50 shots of how much different their paint looks after polishing you would get more income. It's the little things like treating the glass, removing the excess tar and odor remediation that can add up to alot.
 
David Fermani said:
While I tend to agree with you somewhat, I also think alot of detailers leave quite a bit of money on the table by being an order taker instead of a saleperson. i.e. Upselling. How can a customer tell you what they want when they might not even be aware of what is available? If people take the time to educate a prospect it will do alot of positive things for not just them, but the industry. How many times do we try educating our clients on the proper care of their paint or interior? I tell my prospects that I will be doing a dis-service to them if they spend the money and the time to have me get their paint looking near perfect when they aren't willing to put in the effort to maintain it. I gaurantee if we offered to do more clay demonstrations and 50/50 shots of how much different their paint looks after polishing you would get more income. It's the little things like treating the glass, removing the excess tar and odor remediation that can add up to alot.
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I think you have hit on an important point with the value of up-selling. There have been times where I have doubled or tripled my revenue on a detail by selling the next package up and adding a DrivePur treatment. Just because someone does lower dollar per detail packages does not mean they can ever underestimate the value of being a salesman.



Let me add this on a more personal note... I really admire the guys on here that do full corrections on high end vehicles a majority of the time, they truly are the top 1% of all detailers in this country, and maybe the world.



That being said, I also find no shame in charging sub $200 to do a full interior on a minivan that is trashed and wax the outside. Why? Because that is simply part of my business. Maybe one day I fill have the high end clientele to do primarily paint correction, but right now even moderate paint corrections accounts for less than 25% of my business.



I have also geared my business plan and marketing to doing more volume oriented work, and know exactly how much profit I can make in my non-correction package work. If someone does 2-3 details a week and makes $1500 profit, and another guys detail 8-12 and makes $1500, who is really the wiser?



I know this is a forum that caters primarily to high end boutique detailers, part time high end detailers, and do it yourself enthusiasts, but the volume guys are further advancing the business of detailing as a whole in their own way also, so why not let bygones be bygones? Its not as if the $100 "full detail" guys are stealing business from the ones charging $800 for two full days work on a vehicle....
 
IHA Mark said:
If someone does 2-3 details a week and makes $1500 profit, and another guys detail 8-12 and makes $1500, who is really the wiser?
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Confucius say: The one who hires people to do the $1500 of work instead of breaking their own back.:tinfoil3: :rofl
 
David Fermani said:
While I tend to agree with you somewhat, I also think alot of detailers leave quite a bit of money on the table by being an order taker instead of a saleperson. i.e. Upselling. How can a customer tell you what they want when they might not even be aware of what is available? If people take the time to educate a prospect it will do alot of positive things for not just them, but the industry. How many times do we try educating our clients on the proper care of their paint or interior? I tell my prospects that I will be doing a dis-service to them if they spend the money and the time to have me get their paint looking near perfect when they aren't willing to put in the effort to maintain it. I gaurantee if we offered to do more clay demonstrations and 50/50 shots of how much different their paint looks after polishing you would get more income. It's the little things like treating the glass, removing the excess tar and odor remediation that can add up to alot.
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:werd: That is without doubt one of the biggest problems I encounter on a regular basis -- people who do know what they want, but don't know how to ask for it.
 
There is a difference between a detailer who has the skill/knowledge to do high end work taking on a basic detail vs. a person who only knows how to wash and wax selling a correction and doing a hack job of it. The problem is the latter often isn't even aware of how little they know and that is what makes them a liability to the industry.
 
For the record, I'm not real familiar with any posters on this forum yet. The two guys you mentioned I do not know who they are but will look them up and read some of their posts. The name of this forum is professional detailer general discussion. I figured this would be a good place to talk shop. I like exchanging business ideas but from the tone of some of the posters it seems like they don't fully understand the calls that professional detailers get. Here's 3 from just the past few months 1. Hi this is Cumberland farms gas station our fire suppression system just went off I have 12 cars covered in foam I need a detailer up here now to clean these things up. 2 I just found out my son left a gallon of milk in the trunk for a few days and it just broke open can you help? 3. We just got home from our summer vacation and my son got car sick the whole way home can you help? bonus call my daughter took my car to camp for two weeks now it is covered in sap can you help? I get the cherry calls also. Can you detail my Porsche I had it done in the fall and have not taken it out of the garage since but would still like it done. I think the professional detailers on here know what I am saying. A paint correction geared detailing operation might be a great idea in South beach but not in most places. Again guys I am here to make friends not piss people off but lets be real about what professional auto detailers do. I'm not a hack I just deal in the real world.
 
Nth Degree said:
There is a difference between a detailer who has the skill/knowledge to do high end work taking on a basic detail vs. a person who only knows how to wash and wax selling a correction and doing a hack job of it. The problem is the latter often isn't even aware of how little they know and that is what makes them a liability to the industry.
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rustytruck said:
I'm not a hack I just deal in the real world.
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Real world detailing doesn't make anyone a hack, no one is saying that. Chris nailed it though. If you're charging a lower price for a more modest detail, that's not a bad thing. But when someone applies wax or "glaze" with a rotary on a dirty wool pad at 2500rpm and THINKS they are doing a great job, that's the problem many here are rallying against. Do it right or don't do it at all.



Doing interiors all day long doesn't make you or anyone else a hack. It's the guys charging $99 for a full detail that includes "high-speed buffing" in their packages that makes them hacks. That same detail without the hologram application might be well worth the price, they just don't know to leave well enough alone, in this case. Lower prices don't always equate to hack work, but lower prices while promising way too much to reasonably expect for the price usually does.
 
Automania said:
Why do detailer's here speak disparagingly of big production detail shops, auction shops, car washes and dealer shops or it seems that way to me. Have a few bad shops tainted the entire industry?



Why do I get the feeling there is some kind of snobbery going here we vs them... The "we" meaning we are better.. Wouldn't better depend on what the consumer wanted or is willing to accept?
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I really think this thread went off on a tangent, big time! Gina asked the above in bold and the simple answer is the picture below!!! It has nothing to do with volume shops doing less correction, wash n' waxes or Autopians thinking they are better than volume shops because they do full correction. It's because most volume shops hack up and damage cars paint, trim, interiors....



(Pic borrowed from Mike Phillips of AGO)



Horrendous005.jpg
 
Well everyone can agree that's bad work. Nope I would never do that to a car. I only use a cyclo so that would not be possible. I used a rotary when I went for training on wet sanding and compounding. I decided not to purchase because I never do more than a 2 step polish job. 90% of what I do is an AIO. The cyclo is perfect for that.
 
RaskyR1 said:
I really think this thread went off on a tangent, big time! Gina asked the above in bold and the simple answer is the picture below!!! It has nothing to do with volume shops doing less correction, wash n' waxes or Autopians thinking they are better than volume shops because they do full correction. It's because most volume shops hack up and damage cars paint, trim, interiors....



(Pic borrowed from Mike Phillips of AGO)



Horrendous005.jpg
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That's a mighty big brush you painted with.

How about "some" rather than "most".

Not disagreeing that there are "some shops" or "individual's" who hack up vehicles.

Grumpy
 
Ron Ketcham said:
That's a mighty big brush you painted with.

How about "some" rather than "most".

Not disagreeing that there are "some shops" or "individual's" who hack up vehicles.

Grumpy
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This could be the dealer as well as it could be off the assembly line or enroute to the dealer... port work, carrier damaged in shipment and stopped off somewhere to do a quick job... who really knows.



At the dealer level it is the management that is causing the problem... they have little respect for the job that is being done and are hiring the wrong persons for the job... Their Ads usually read looking for Lot Porter, Lot Boy, Clean up Man ...in other words they are looking for a jack of all trades, clean the lot, drive the car around, buff the car without any consideration or understanding that they need a qualified person... They also would not know what a qualified person should do or what the job should look like ... as long as he/she says he can buff or he is a detailer ..that means to the dealer he is qualified...



The management directs the work, purchases the products and equipment needed and often they are high speed buffers with wool pad only, .and the time given to these detailers at the dealership are also unrealistic... get this out in 2 hours, or they schedule customer maintenance with a detail the same day... so the detail department will have about 1 hour to 2 hours after the mechanic to get the car done so the customer can pick up at end of day. Consumers must also bear part of the blame they have unrealistic turn around times ...car is in poor shape and want it back right away... so the the shop guys will often oblige the consumer to keep their jobs and give them a whack job right away....



My sense is from what I read if you are not polishing 60 hours you are not "professional detailer" The fact is there are many great shops out there doing excellent work that many Autopian detailers could not match... the body of experience and ability to solve problems so far exceeds what many Autopians have ever been exposed to.. and it should not mean that an one is superior to another...
 
Most shops that "autopians" don't hold in high regards use a rotary. The picture is a perfect example. Maybe extreme, but I haven't seen 1 shop in Portland that delivers a hologram free finish. And believe me, detailing shops are everywhere here.





rustytruck said:
Well everyone can agree that's bad work. Nope I would never do that to a car. I only use a cyclo so that would not be possible. I used a rotary when I went for training on wet sanding and compounding. I decided not to purchase because I never do more than a 2 step polish job. 90% of what I do is an AIO. The cyclo is perfect for that.
Click to expand...
 
Automania said:
Why do detailer's here speak disparagingly of big production detail shops, auction shops, car washes and dealer shops or it seems that way to me. Have a few bad shops tainted the entire industry?



Why do I get the feeling there is some kind of snobbery going here we vs them... The "we" meaning we are better.. Wouldn't better depend on what the consumer wanted or is willing to accept?
Click to expand...





I think for the most part your question has been answered. I will add another reason is general "Lack of knowledge v. shady marketing" And it's a compounded issue. The "Volume" sales pitch usually (not always but usually in my experience) is something along the lines of scratch and defect "Removal" So the customer also sharing in the lack of knowledge (again generalizing here) of what is in fact removal, thinks they are getting one thing. What gets presented to them a mere 1 or 2 hours later is what appears to be a "defect" free vehicle glazed over and filled in nicely. once the filler is removed the damage presents it's true form in the case of swirls, RIDS, etc etc. (Rasky's pic is a perfect example)IMO it's just like shopping around for cars, a guy walking in saying "Hey I'd like a red one" vs. a guy walking in saying " I see you have a 2012 Red Chrysler with the optional 3.6 liter with leather, heated seats, and an invoice of $xx.xx per the KBB,NADA listing, I'd really like to look at that" An informed customer is always better. I think once the knowledge base on both sides goes up the stigma you mention will start to fade. And like mentioned there are a few out there that people know of that are delivering quality details but those are still in the minority.. But times are ever changing.
 
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