Why not circular motion application?

J

jrb23

New member
First let me say that I am OVEWHELMED by this website!! A treasure trove of information!!



Now my question, I read on a post somewhere here that a circular motion is NOT the way to apply wax. Is this true? If it is I'm not sure I can change, I have done it the other way for my whole life!







P.S. I drive a 97 Ford Thunderbird, Laser Red. I was referred here from TCCOA ( Thunderbird and Cougar club of America)
 
Yes alot of people believe that the circuliar motion promotes swirl marks. And since I have been reading about it I have tried the back and fourth motion myself and it just doesn't feel right. But nonetheless I hate swirls more so I do what I can to keep them at bay. I know there was a thread that said wax in the direction of the wind. I am not sure I ever found out why though?
 
Yes that was the thread I read but no one has told me why. I have a red car and have only occasionally had swirl problems. When I do, I just get out the big soft towels and buff my arms off and they go away. Thanks for the input!!
 
When you are driving the air flows over your car in a natural direction. That is also the direction that the debris and particles of dust and ice are going to go over your car. Waxing in that same direction is like sanding with the grain. You will get better results if you stay with the grain of the scratches and other problems that just driving your car creates on your surface. Think about how you sand when you want the smoothest surface. You sand in a circle to level it out, but you would sand in a straight line with the grain to smooth it out the best. I'm not a professional sander, but that is the way I've always done it.



Waxing in a circle over the grain will create the spiderweb type swirls that we see. Any kind of swirl is bad, but the ones we create ourselves are the ones that are circular and spiderwebby. Swirls can't be avoided, but you can reduce them by waxing and drying your car properly. You'll see fewer swirls if you go in the direction of the wind. That is just from my own experience. Your results may vary I guess.
 
I get it now. No hope for my six year old Thuderbird but perhaps if I take the leap and buy that new 350 Z I will do a better job with the paint!! Thank you.
 
The swirl formation during wax application theory is based on using a cleaner (abrasive filled) wax. If one is using a pure protectant that is totally free of any abrasives any motion with a clean applicator and surface will give swirl-free results. Some believe there is an optical difference achieved with the up/down of vertical panels and the front/back on horizontal surfaces. True?:nixweiss

I wash using only the straight line movement because of the higher possiblity of surface marring. Washing in circles.:scared

I use a combination of movements when applying wax/sealants and only QD a clean surface using straight line movements whenever possible.:wavey
 
I thought its was more a matter of if your applicator or buffing towel picked up any dirt, the scratch wpould be less likely to be noticed if done in a line. How do we see scratches? Light reflects off the hard edge of the scratch. Looking at the side panel of a car, a scratch running sideways will more likely reflect light for most people's eyes than one running up/down.
 
APT said:
I thought its was more a matter of if your applicator or buffing towel picked up any dirt, the scratch wpould be less likely to be noticed if done in a line. How do we see scratches? Light reflects off the hard edge of the scratch. Looking at the side panel of a car, a scratch running sideways will more likely reflect light for most people's eyes than one running up/down.
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Even a clean towel will cause swirls. Using dirty towels and applicators is a sure fire way to get swirls, but they aren't the only way they occur. The problem is that driving is going to cause horizontal scratches on your sides. By waxing and washing in a vertical motion it will cross hatch your scratches making them visible from every angle, wouldn't it? If your car isn't driven very often then I would definatly suggest doing it in the vertical way on the sides. If you just removed all the swirls then I would suggest going vertical on the first wax job too. But if this is a daily driver that doesn't have a perfect finish then I would think that it would be better to follow the natural (if swirls could be called 'natural') direction of the swirls. Any thoughts on that?
 
People are bringing up some good points about this. My .02 is that any "scratch" (broad use of term) is most visible from a certain viewing angle (for sake of an example, lets say 90*). This is especially true of the sort of MINOR scratches we refer to as "swirl marks". So a straight scratch will only be REALLY visible when looking at it from a single 90* perspective. If you looked at it from a different angle/perspective it would be much less noticeable (if you saw it at all). The more circular (360*) a scratch is, the more opportunities for the 90* viewing angle- there would ALWAYS be some part of the scratch that is at the 90* viewing angle and thus quite visible. Once that optimal perspective catches your eye, you're much more likely to see the entire flaw.



Hopefully, someone who really understands optical phenomena will chime in on this.
 
Jngrbrdman said:
Even a clean towel will cause swirls. Using dirty towels and applicators is a sure fire way to get swirls, but they aren't the only way they occur. The problem is that driving is going to cause horizontal scratches on your sides. By waxing and washing in a vertical motion it will cross hatch your scratches making them visible from every angle, wouldn't it? If your car isn't driven very often then I would definatly suggest doing it in the vertical way on the sides. If you just removed all the swirls then I would suggest going vertical on the first wax job too. But if this is a daily driver that doesn't have a perfect finish then I would think that it would be better to follow the natural (if swirls could be called 'natural') direction of the swirls. Any thoughts on that?
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Hmm, interesting. I don't know that I have experienced micro scratches from the wind carrying the dirt particles. I get them from rubbing whatever towels I use on the car I know. I notice them more on the horizontal surfaces than vertical and I always apply wax/dry vertically. Maybe the lighting favors the vertical ones, but I use some 500w lights on the sides as well as flourescent overhead in my garage. My car was in almost perfect swirl free condition in May, and it isn't now after 14k miles. plenty of opportunities to carry dirt. I may have the scratches in the direction of the wind on the side panels, but I don't notice them. I only notice the hood/roof/trunk. :nixweiss
 
For me this topic has been beaten to death. Maybe not on this forums but on others.



I will say wax as you want. A lot of people here wax using their PC. That isn't making straight motins and plenty of them aren't getting swirls from it.



I always wax in circular motions when doing it by hand. It just helps the wax spread on the surface easier. As long as the vehicle has been washed and there isn't any dirt on the surface and they wax doesn't have abrasives in it and the applicator doesn't scratch, then you won't get swirls from doing a circular motion.



You'll get swirls from circular motions and from doing back and forth motions and in my experience the back and forth scratches are a LOT easier to see than the circular ones.
 
I had no idea my silly question would raise such spirited debate and commentary. Thanks to all of you, I have alot to think about in the future. I love the fact that no one "flamed" anyone on the thread. As far as my "bird is concerned I think I will try the "straight line" approach this weekend and see if I notice a difference. I probably won't, as I have been waxing in circles since she was new. I can use the old 'bird as a practice palette for my new vehicle someday.
 
Intel486 said:
I always wax in circular motions when doing it by hand. It just helps the wax spread on the surface easier. As long as the vehicle has been washed and there isn't any dirt on the surface and they wax doesn't have abrasives in it and the applicator doesn't scratch, then you won't get swirls from doing a circular motion.

You'll get swirls from circular motions and from doing back and forth motions and in my experience the back and forth scratches are a LOT easier to see than the circular ones.
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Agreed. You can be as careful as you want, but over time the marring you create by obsessively detailing your car (QDing, waxing, washing, drying, etc.) will build and become more and more visible. The rationale for using straight lines instead of circular ones is that the inevitable marring/scratching you'll get will be less visible if they're in a straight & uniform pattern. This may or may not be true, but I think straight, uniform scratches are just as ugly as randomly patterned scratches, so I wax in circular motions.
 
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