Why, and when, strip wax?

[Johnny 5]

Hey good folks, I'm trying to understand the implications and concepts better here. I can see why someone would want to strip wax when using a different product from the existing wax. But otherwise, why do we need to strip it? Ok now that I've composed the query, I'd like to add that this is in the case where polishing will not occur. If there is absolutely no reason to strip wax when not polishing, then please let me know . . .



Does it become contaminated enough that it may be causing harm to the paint, or is it simply that it is no longer beautiful, or perhaps it's a combination of both? Is there a certain length of time where you anticipate any of these issues (if real)?



How are things similiar or different with polymer sealants?



Is this perhaps only an issue when polishing is going to be done? You see, I don't worry about a "wax stripping wash" when about to polish, because I figure between clay and possibly chemical paint cleaner, the wax would no longer be there. Perhaps a wax stripping wash would be "just for good measure" for some people, I could understand that.



You see, my nice (for pleasure) car doesn't see the elements so much, and the wax still looks ok after a couple of months, but I think it could use a bit more now. However, am I supposed to strip it first? If it "looks good", can't I just add more product (especially since it's not a very cheap product to me)?



Thanks for any of your thoughts and experiences. I live in the temperate climate of CA, for perspective.



Oh yes, I almost forgot . . . assuming you are going to convince me to strip my existing wax, I would love some product recommendations for the job (and I prefer not to use Dawn), thanks! (I do have a couple of brands of paint cleaner- just use that stuff I suppose . . .)

 

[Accumulator]

Hey good folks, I'm trying to understand the implications and concepts better here. I can see why someone would want to strip wax when using a different product from the existing wax. But otherwise, why do we need to strip it? Ok now that I've composed the query, I'd like to add that this is in the case where polishing will not occur. If there is absolutely no reason to strip wax when not polishing, then please let me know . . .



Does it become contaminated enough that it may be causing harm to the paint, or is it simply that it is no longer beautiful, or perhaps it's a combination of both? Is there a certain length of time where you anticipate any of these issues (if real)?

Sometimes the wax gets contaminated beyond what (a very gentle) claying can take care off, and then yeah...it'll look/turn out better if you strip things back to clean bare paint. And some waxes do seem to leave "dead wax artifacts" that result in so-so looks when you just lay on more wax without stripping first.



BUT....I rewax without stripping/etc. fairly often and it generally works out fine. I also [warning, Autopian Heresy follows ] sometimes just rewax without even claying! Yep, how awful of me :chuckle: Turns out fine 99% of the time.

How are things similiar or different with polymer sealants?

GENERALLY, they shed contamination better so they "stay cleaner" and you're less likely to have to strip for that reason. And they seem to "die cleaner" as in, no "dead LSP artifacts". I just re-UPPed the S8 after a wash, no stripping, no claying (there I go again!) and it turned out super.

Is this perhaps only an issue when polishing is going to be done? You see, I don't worry about a "wax stripping wash" when about to polish, because I figure between clay and possibly chemical paint cleaner, the wax would no longer be there. Perhaps a wax stripping wash would be "just for good measure" for some people, I could understand that.

It's that, and also *IMO* about people just being really....well, Autopian. "Doing it the right way" even if that's not always necessary.



Oh, OK..."if you're gonnad do it, do it right".



I will concede that it's easier to inspect clean/bare paint.



Plus, I've had a (very) few cases where existing LSPs did cause some minor issues when I merely "polished right through them". Enough of a bother that in some rare cases I'll strip before polishing, if only by using something quick and easy (e.g., PrepWash, AI/VG "A", IPA) after the regular wash.

You see, my nice (for pleasure) car doesn't see the elements so much, and the wax still looks ok after a couple of months, but I think it could use a bit more now. However, am I supposed to strip it first? If it "looks good", can't I just add more product (especially since it's not a very cheap product to me)?

That sounds like my situations where I just add more LSP. Here's something to watch for- if your wax applicator starts looking soiled, that's a sign that the wax is cleaning [stuff] off the paint through solvent action. IF the soiling looks bad enough to give you pause, that's a clue But even then, it's your life and I'm not gonna tell you that you *must* spend extra time strpping it all down to bare paint if you don't think you need to.

Oh yes, I almost forgot . . . assuming you are going to convince me to strip my existing wax, I would love some product recommendations for the job (and I prefer not to use Dawn), thanks! (I do have a couple of brands of paint cleaner- just use that stuff I suppose . . .)

I use TOL's PrepWash, AutoInt/ValuGard's "A", FinishKare's FK1119, Optimum's Power Clean, IPA, and yeah....Dawn. But I'd do a regular wash first as these generally lack lubricity and encapsulation. Get the paint "normal-clean" safely, without marring it, and *then* employ something to strip the wax; with the dirt/etc. off of there you'll be less likely to mar things with the (latter) process.

 

[Bill D]

BUT....I rewax without stripping/etc. fairly often and it generally works out fine. I also [warning, Autopian Heresy follows ] sometimes just rewax without even claying! Yep, how awful of me :chuckle: Turns out fine 99% of the time.

I agree and so do I, pretty commonplace for me. I still ( at least occasionally) do the plastic bag test first to see if I need to clay though.



I'm really into stripping everything before/during corrections, because doing so will show any marring still left behind and following the regimen produces the best looking results.

 

[Johnny 5]

Accumulator, thanks so much for the comprehensive reply!



That's a very good point about checking in on the applicator during a reapplication of wax. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience with me.

 

[togwt]

If you use a wax as a sacrificial barrier; cleaning the vehicles paint surface (Groit’s Paint Prep) and replacing the organic wax on a regular basis will ensure any acids are removed and the sacrificial protection is continued.

 

[Brad B]

I use sealants on most my cars so stripping isn't necessary very often. I maintain a barrier of protection. I do spot-clay as needed to maximize the silky feel I like. I then follow up with a touch up of the sealant.

 

[imported_MCA]

With regards to your question, if I need another sacrificial layer, I will directly apply another layer of wax or sealant - assuming the same sealant was used previously. I don't use dedicated chemical cleaners (pre-wax cleaners that require hand/machine-application and removal) very much these days. If I do need to "strip" the LSP and go back to scratch, then I add a few ounces of Zep APC to my foam gun mixture and spray away. Let it dwell for a few minutes to breakdown the old product and then I begin my normal 2-bucket wash method. Zaino and Klasse SG are the most durable stuff I have and even they fall victim to the car shampoo/APC foam mixture.

 

[SpoolinNoMore]

I recently discovered that Dawn foam baths have required a twice over usually before I don't see any beading left over (from polishing or LSP stripping). So yesterday when I needed to strip polishing oils, I rinsed the car, then did a full spritz of the vehicle with 50% IPA solution and then foamed it with Dawn. After a letting the foam do it's thing, I just rinsed the vehicle off and there was not a single water bead on the entire vehicle. This has been the most effective method I've found yet.

 

[b34tBoX]

Wash it with a non-wax based soap (Even though I've found most wash and waxes don't offer a very well waxed result anyways). Dry the surface of your vehicle.

Then soak a MF towel with vinegar and go to town. No, actually stay there wiping the paint with the soaked towel. Will also remove most water spots, do your windows too while you're at it.



Now go over the paint again with a dry MF towel.

Congrats you've successfully cleaned your paint for cheap, and not much effort.

 

[wascallyrabbit]

i also will re-wax without stripping depending on the condition of the existing wax.

 

[lostdaytomorrow]

When it comes down to it, this is basically an anecdotal opinion because I haven't seen any objections be studies done studying the scientific properties of applying the wax to a clean prepped surface vs. A surface with old wax on it. I like waxing so about 3 TO 4 Times a yr. I strip it and re do the application. Like life, 2 is 1 and 1 is none so a double application is always great to see.

 

[Phishy4]

I usually only strip paint 1) after winter when I'm getting ready to do a full prep on my/wife's car or 2) when I've got a car that I'm going to be correcting or polishing at all. I used to use dawn but after I tried CG Citrus Wash (straight citrus wash, not wash and clear or gloss or whatever) I'm never going back, stuff is ridiculous.

 

[Johnny 5]

Everyone, the responses are appreciated (even if I do not directly respond to your help).

GENERALLY, they shed contamination better so they "stay cleaner" and you're less likely to have to strip for that reason. And they seem to "die cleaner" as in, no "dead LSP artifacts". I just re-UPPed the S8 after a wash, no stripping, no claying (there I go again!) and it turned out super.

I use sealants on most my cars so stripping isn't necessary very often. I maintain a barrier of protection. I do spot-clay as needed to maximize the silky feel I like. I then follow up with a touch up of the sealant.

With regards to your question, if I need another sacrificial layer, I will directly apply another layer of wax or sealant - assuming the same sealant was used previously.

This brings up another scenario that I didn't think about. What if I put on a sealant first, followed by a carnauba coat a day later . . . I suppose it all depends on how much time I want to invest in the hobby. Perhaps I should find a happy medium, and maybe for me that could be stripping wax twice a year (followed with new sealant), but applying a fresh coat of wax every two months for example.



(This might become a really big tangent very quickly, but wtheck, I'm going to say it anyway: I find that the composition of "sealants" and "waxes" can be confusing; doesn't HD Poxy have carnauba in it, and don't some waxes have polymers in them, like Collinite? I suppose understanding the compositions could be important to the above scenario.)

Wash it with a non-wax based soap (Even though I've found most wash and waxes don't offer a very well waxed result anyways). Dry the surface of your vehicle.

Then soak a MF towel with vinegar and go to town. No, actually stay there wiping the paint with the soaked towel. Will also remove most water spots, do your windows too while you're at i

You know, I think the only time I've ever used vinegar on a car is to remove some rust from (I don't even know the proper terminology- I think I need to take a class with Ron Ketcham or buda), the areas near the brakes. Maybe I should try the stuff more often, because for me it is the best glass cleaner in the home, I've got a big jug of it.

i also will re-wax without stripping depending on the condition of the existing wax.

Are there any tell tale signs? Does it look murky or perhaps just not quite right, or perhaps a clay test, or a sun gun test, or . . . I'm just pulling things out of a hat . . . and I'm curious.

When it comes down to it, this is basically an anecdotal opinion because I haven't seen any objections be studies done studying the scientific properties of applying the wax to a clean prepped surface vs.

I could see that and appreciate the distinction, but by the same token I am ok with anecdotal opinions here. After all, when many concours d'elegance contestants win a prize by using a fancy carnauba, it succeeded by the votes of opinion.

I usually only strip paint 1) after winter when I'm getting ready to do a full prep on my/wife's car or 2) when I've got a car that I'm going to be correcting or polishing at all. I used to use dawn but after I tried CG Citrus Wash (straight citrus wash, not wash and clear or gloss or whatever) I'm never going back, stuff is ridiculous.

I've been meaning to try some of this stuff- can you please recommend a vendor? Thank you.

 

[SpoolinNoMore]

Using a sealant and then topping with a carnauba is very common practice (with a lot of skepticism about wether products will actually bond to the surface with another superficial layer of sealant below it). I believe the rule is you can't top with any waxes with cleaners in them otherwise it'll 'clean'/rub off the sealant.

 

[Phishy4]

I've been meaning to try some of this stuff- can you please recommend a vendor? Thank you.

I get it from Detailed image, here's a product link: Chemical Guys Citrus Wash - 16 oz | Detailed Image

 

[Accumulator]

Johnny 5- I can't help but think that you could find a sealant that gives the look you're after all by itself (e.g., BF looks awfully "wax-like"). And IME the particular look of the LSP isn't always gonna be a big deal, at least as long as you don't do something weird (e.g., the Zaino Z2 look might not look right on some older cars, too "bright and reflective" to be period-correct).



And regulars here will remember my "Collinite 476S story" where people at a show thought an old Jag I did with 476S had Dodo Juice on it ("I use that, and nothing else looks quite like it!"). That car won its Class too



The 476S is undobutedly a wax/sealant/whatever hybrid, but I really never think much about that; if something has the characteristics I value (looks, how it cleans, durability, how it works over underlying glazes/etc., and so on...) then I don't really care what's in it. Heh heh, one of my favorite sealants, FK1000P, is called a "high temperature wax" by its manufacturer.

 

[Johnny 5]

Using a sealant and then topping with a carnauba is very common practice (with a lot of skepticism about wether products will actually bond to the surface with another superficial layer of sealant below it). I believe the rule is you can't top with any waxes with cleaners in them otherwise it'll 'clean'/rub off the sealant.

Ah thanks- I'll keep my eye out for the cleaner component from now on.

I get it from Detailed image, here's a product link: Chemical Guys Citrus Wash - 16 oz | Detailed Image

Thanks, Phisy4. One day, I will order some from here. BTW, thanks again for your cart recommendation that I bought, it's going to save me a lot of time, with probably many miles saved from no longer repeatedly walking back and forth from my shelving, and maybe also helping to save my back by not having to bend over to reach products sitting on the ground as much. Anyway, your handle didn't register with me yesterday, maybe because I was responding to so many here, cheers.

Johnny 5- I can't help but think that you could find a sealant that gives the look you're after all by itself (e.g., BF looks awfully "wax-like"). And IME the particular look of the LSP isn't always gonna be a big deal, at least as long as you don't do something weird (e.g., the Zaino Z2 look might not look right on some older cars, too "bright and reflective" to be period-correct).



And regulars here will remember my "Collinite 476S story" where people at a show thought an old Jag I did with 476S had Dodo Juice on it ("I use that, and nothing else looks quite like it!"). That car won its Class too



The 476S is undobutedly a wax/sealant/whatever hybrid, but I really never think much about that; if something has the characteristics I value (looks, how it cleans, durability, how it works over underlying glazes/etc., and so on...) then I don't really care what's in it. Heh heh, one of my favorite sealants, FK1000P, is called a "high temperature wax" by its manufacturer.

Interestingly, Dodo is what I have on right now, and I also have a full large tin of 476S. I read the thread where 476S vs FK1000P is discussed (was it you that was the big "convert" to the FK from previously being the 476S' biggest fan . . .), and it seems the latter is favored here- however, I still chose the 476S because a second coat wasn't "required", and that it is more forgiving with trim. This is going to be used for others' cars, and I really like the Dodo on my car. I've only tried two sealants, Meguiar's NXT 2.0 and Ultimate Synthetic Wax, and neither look as good as the Dodo, IMO. However, I admit the differences with various LSPs are more subtle than I was expecting, and I agree it's all about the polish.



I almost bought some BFWD, but between some apparent confusion (to me) of where people could restock (since the closure of PAC), and that its durability was starkly minimal, particularly for a sealant, I ended up passing and instead pulled the trigger on the HD Poxy sale here recently. The next time I was to seal my own car, I was hoping to try this, but I'm not sure if it's ok to top with carnauba if the HD Poxy already has said ingredient. (I believe I learned this after pulling the trigger).

 

[Johnny 5]

I get it from Detailed image, here's a product link: Chemical Guys Citrus Wash - 16 oz | Detailed Image

So I was about to order a gallon (and the wash mitt on sale, so that I can break the $35 mark for a free additional mitt), but the shipping is over $15. Shoot. I wonder how I can diminish this charge- I don't yet see anything about free shipping if the order is large enough, nor do I know about any special coupon codes. Hm.

 

[Accumulator]

Interestingly, Dodo is what I have on right now, and I also have a full large tin of 476S. I read the thread where 476S vs FK1000P is discussed (was it you that was the big "convert" to the FK from previously being the 476S' biggest fan . . .), and it seems the latter is favored here- however, I still chose the 476S because a second coat wasn't "required", and that it is more forgiving with trim. This is going to be used for others' cars, and I really like the Dodo on my car. I've only tried two sealants, Meguiar's NXT 2.0 and Ultimate Synthetic Wax, and neither look as good as the Dodo, IMO. However, I admit the differences with various LSPs are more subtle than I was expecting, and I agree it's all about the polish...

Noting that there are, IIRC, different versions of Dodo, it'd be interesting to hear your take on how it compares to the 476S. Very different that way compared with just looking at some stranger's car that you've never seen before! I bet you'd think the two LSPs look completely different But maybe you'd like how the 476S looks on that particular paint :nixweiss



But yeah, I went from 476S to FK1000p on the dog-hauler. Still using Collinite stuff on the beater-Audi though so it's not like I'm down on 476S these days. Perfect stuff for imperfect finishes and/or when you're only doing one coat.

I almost bought some BFWD, but between some apparent confusion (to me) of where people could restock (since the closure of PAC), and that its durability was starkly minimal, particularly for a sealant, I ended up passing and instead pulled the trigger on the HD Poxy sale here recently. The next time I was to seal my own car, I was hoping to try this, but I'm not sure if it's ok to top with carnauba if the HD Poxy already has said ingredient. (I believe I learned this after pulling the trigger).

Hmmm..I'll be interested to hear what you think of the Poxy.