Why am i getting swirls? Newbie question

E

Eastcoastdetail

New member
I am using a flex rotary with edge 2000 wave foam. Also, megs 105 then menzerna power gloss, then menzerna final finish. I move the pad about 4 inches a second and i overlap. After all this, why am i getting swirls? The never use the same pad on the same job. I rinse the pad with water and air dry overnight. I use the two bucket method with grit guard and clay bar afterwards. I dont let the clay bar drop on the floor nor the pad to ever touch the floor. My pads had never touched the floor. I rinse in mid air and air dry on my cart (which is aluminum with many holes). What am i doing wrong?
 
Eastcoastdetail- Can you be more specific about what the "swirls" are? You've mentioned washing, claying, and polishing and you can get marring from any of those.



If you're getting holograms from your rotary work, well...welcome to the club; plenty of people can't finish out 100% hologram-free with a rotary.



Do you merely rinse the pads with water or do you actually clean with with some kind of soap?



FWIW, I can't wash with (merely) the two-bucket method and avoid wash-induced marring.
 
If you are getting rotary swirls, are you keeping the pad flat? Are you using too high of a speed? Have you considered trying 3M Ultrafina and the blue Ultrafina pad? It is an excellent finishing polish for the rotary provided you aren't trying to remove deep swirling. If you are having a hard time finishing out with a rotary, consider getting a DA polisher and using the MF cutting and finishing pads. They can do as well as a rotary correcting paint on most cars.
 
Assuming that you mean holograms, it looks like your missing a median polishing step. M105 and Power Gloss are both compounds which do the same thing and Final Finish is well, a finishing polish. Try going from either M105/Power Gloss to something like M205 or SIP, and then to Final Finish.



Pad choice is also a huge factor so can you list what pads you are using and what speeds you're using the buffer at?
 
Power Gloss is a monster compound and final finish isn't enough to remove the holograms at all. You'll need an intermediate step such as Power Finish. What kind of car is this on?
 
Thanks for all the replies. This is a 2004 toyota camry in white. Holograms is what i am getting. If i look under the sun, i could look at VERY FINE circular marks. You would really have to be INSPECTING it to see it but its there.



I am looking at the menzerna chart on autogeek and you guys are right, im going from COMPOUND TO ANOTHER COMPOUND. From powergloss, what should i get for polishing on a soft and hard paint. Someone suggested power finish. That has a cut rate of 3.5 and a gloss rate of 3.8. Is that a good polish?



Again, thanks for all the replies.
 
Scott,



I am keeping the pad flat, should i be on a 45 degree angle? I am using a medium cut 2000 yellow edge pad then i went to a light cut edge 2000 pad. I am on 1500 rpm. Should i go slower? Maybe at 1200?



I want to work with the rotary because im blowing through my start up money. I opened for business about 2 weeks ago.
 
Pad should be flat, having it at a 45 degree angle will give you nasty swirls. 1200-1500 rpms is usually enough for swirl removal, 1200 down to 1000 for finishing-with the exception of 3M Ultrafina. Start at 1000 rpms to spread, 2-3 passes (50% overlapping) at 1800 rpms with enough pressure to lightly compress the pad, then ease up the pressure and finish back at 1000 rpms.
 
Thanks everyone for your BIG HELP. I will employ the tips very soon.



Accumulator,



I power wash the pads with only water. I hold it in mid air and power wash with the other hand. Then i air dry it overnight.
 
Wash your pads with normal sink water and some rubbing to get out the polish, much gentler on the foam :)



Power finish is a great polish, in fact it's probably my favorite. Able to finish down hologram free most of the time while removing the majority of swirls. Keep in mind you should try a mid-level polish before stepping it up to a compound.
 
don't mean to threadjack, hey scott.. i have 3m UF at my shop.. but don't find myself using it much.



Does UF have fillers in it?
 
Hijack but related with halograms....



Here is a nasty car..

YouTube - ‪Mf system‬‏



'98 BMW Black- flat. This was tonight with the new MF system. I did about 3 total passes with light pressure with the correction creme and then the finishing wax. Griots on speed just a click under 4 for the cc and then one click under 3 for the wax. This was a result of finding a chart on this site that someone posted. You can see a TON of marring and then flat- but still getting what looks like halograms. I did find halograms around the entire hood so maybe the cc did not induce those- I was under the impression that cc could not put in halograms.



Any thoughts on how to rid them? I tried a few things...205 with yellow foam, but they were still there.



Great and quick system so far..just need more practice.



Thanks, Rob
 
solekeeper said:
don't mean to threadjack, hey scott.. i have 3m UF at my shop.. but don't find myself using it much.



Does UF have fillers in it?
Click to expand...



I am not Scott, and he uses it way more than I do or have.

But, Ultrafina does indeed have a durable filler. Doesn't mean it won't refine, but it's got filling capability.



Which, as durable as it seems to be, it likely protects as well as a wax or polymer.

Perhaps not the same film build.. but if it protects and gets scraped instead of the paint... that's good! :nod:
 
WCD said:
Hijack but related with halograms....



Here is a nasty car..

YouTube - ‪Mf system‬‏



'98 BMW Black- flat. This was tonight with the new MF system. I did about 3 total passes with light pressure with the correction creme and then the finishing wax. Griots on speed just a click under 4 for the cc and then one click under 3 for the wax. This was a result of finding a chart on this site that someone posted. You can see a TON of marring and then flat- but still getting what looks like halograms. I did find halograms around the entire hood so maybe the cc did not induce those- I was under the impression that cc could not put in halograms...
Click to expand...



Those aren't "true holograms" as best I can tell, but rather some other form of micromarring.



For one thing the Griot's polisher isn't a rotary, so it shouldn't instill holograms. Plus, those look more like micromarring from wiping off the product residue (or some such procedure), especially since you can see them at night under the Brinkman. Most holograms are really only visible in direct natural sunlight or under a SunGun, and they just look...uhm...different from that.



Wonder if speed 4 is sufficient to break down that product...I do virtually all my correction at 5 or 6. I can't help but think along the lines of:



-contaminated pad or buffing towel

-too much product (also related to the next possiblility...)

-insufficiently broken down product

-wrong pad/product for the job
 
Thanks. According to the directions "4" should be the right speed for the MF system. I'm going to try the same deal and then follow with 205 and yellow foam. I followed the videos put out by Megs. to a "T", but will try a few different things today for fun.



Thanks- Rob



This car has always been a pain. I can scratch it with only moving my finger on the surface- it is that soft. Thanks again!
 
Just redid sections of the hood. Process:

Clay

MF pads with correction creme

205 with white LC foam

MF finishing pad with Finishing Wax

Opt. Gloss



Other section:

Same, but used white foam LC with Poly Seal



Both looked about the same, but I think the 205 really helped as an "in between". Now I need the sun!! I'm in freakin' SB, CA. and it's foggy time!!! UGH.



Thanks for the all the advice! Rob
 
WCD- Glad things seem to be going better. See how it looks in the sun. Only thing I wonder about is whether the oils from the M205 might be doing anything.
 
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