Which WOWA Sealant: UPGP, OS, Z-CS, JW Trigger, other?

[Rob Tomlin]

That's very strange, because we are on the same page 90% of the time. If anything, to me, the UPGP has a more solid "it's there" look to it, even from looking straight at it, compared to OS.



Am I just in the "honeymoon stage" since my UPGP was applied 5-6 days ago?

It's been more than a week now, and I have washed my car with ONR following 2 coats of UPGP.



Does ONR play nicely with UPGP? I would certainly think that it would, but this might be the first time EVER that I didn't feel that the paint looked better after its first car wash a week after applying a sealant. :think:



I thought the paint looked slightly dulled compared to what is was from a week ago. :nixweiss

 

[imported_Bence]

Yep, overall product performance is a wonderfully complex thing, isn't it?

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Yep, overall product performance is a wonderfully complex thing, isn't it?

Too true, my friend, too true!



I think there is a lot to be said for staying within a "system" where products are designed to work together, i.e, Optimum products, etc.

 

[Gemini13]

Too true, my friend, too true!



I think there is a lot to be said for staying within a "system" where products are designed to work together, i.e, Optimum products, etc.

So very true. After that its purely experimentation. Which in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. As long as you understand before hand that you're gonna win some and loose some.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

So very true. After that its purely experimentation. Which in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. As long as you understand before hand that you're gonna win some and loose some.

Exactly!



I'd still like to hear from other UPGP users who also use ONR to see what they think.

 

[ricka]

i use onr almost exclusively when washing the car. easy, fast and does a great job when applying the two bucket method. have not seen any diminished results when doing the onr/upgp combo.

 

[Dsoto87]

I use ONR also almost exclusively with it and I have never got diminished results soley from ONR. Of course time comes in to play but if I give it a wash in a few days (when it should be at its peak) Ive never seen anything negative happen from using ONR.



I remember superbee saying Dirt just falls off the car with vintage. I feel the same way about UPGP. If I use a hose the dirt just floats off. I have almost nothing left on my car after just a hose down.

 

[Dan]

Got a new bottle coming.... Autogeek rocks. I'll report back.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Well, I went ahead and applied another coat of UPGP after my wash with ONR. It now looks fantastic again.



It will be interesting to see what it looks like next time I wash with ONR again.

 

[Dan]

I took some pictures:

Your typical UPGP shot, extreme angle, looks amazing, almost like liquid chrome. Its 105(rotary)/205(PC)/DWG/3xUPGP.

Two side by sides. Fk1000 on the left and UPGP on the right. The difference in the picutres is subtle, but in real life it is pretty strong. The FK1000 looks great when looking straight at it, almost like there is another layer of clear. The UPGP looks just ok. The reflection on the left is much clearer. The second picture, they are pretty close, because its still a rather extreme angle. The last picture is amost straight 90 degree, and you can clearly see the detail in the brick reflection on the left, not so much on the right.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

^ I don't think you have nearly enough of the house reflecting in the UPGP side to be able to make any conclusion whatsoever based on those pictures.

 

[Dan]

^ I don't think you have nearly enough of the house reflecting in the UPGP side to be able to make any conclusion whatsoever based on those pictures.

Perhaps you don't see it, like I said, in the photos its subtle. I can see more of the lines in between the bricks on the left. IRL, its pretty strong. But then again, this is like a religious war, reminds me of when I pointed out that Zaino was prone to water spotting. Everyone hates when their LSP gets "pissed on."



I'm not saying UPGP sucks, I'm just saying that at 90 degrees, it doesn't have much bling. FK1000 is hardly a strong competitor in the bling dept. I probably should have used something more in your face like NXT.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Perhaps you don't see it, like I said, in the photos its subtle. I can see more of the lines in between the bricks on the left. IRL, its pretty strong. But then again, this is like a religious war, reminds me of when I pointed out that Zaino was prone to water spotting. Everyone hates when their LSP gets "pissed on."

Please don't be ridiculous.



Everyone hates when their LSP gets "pissed on"?!



Just fyi: I own, use, and very much enjoy: Werkstat AJT, Opti-Seal, FK1000p, and UPGP. I have posted in various threads about all of these sealants. As I said, I like ALL of them.



So this is clearly not a case of me being upset that you are "pissing on my LSP" and it is ridiculous for you to imply that that is the reason that I questioned your pictures.

I'm not saying UPGP sucks,

LOL. I wasn't saying that you did.

I'm just saying that at 90 degrees, it doesn't have much bling. FK1000 is hardly a strong competitor in the bling dept. I probably should have used something more in your face like NXT.

You completely missed the point of my post. It was pretty simple: I do not think that anyone can make any judgment about those two LSP's based on your pictures since there is not enough of the house on the side that has the UPGP on it.



That said, even with the little that is there, I certainly don't see any difference between either side, and I have a full 24" HD calibrated monitor.

 

[dcrc]

Why a comparison of a wax with sealant?

 

[Dan]

You completely missed the point of my post. It was pretty simple: I do not think that anyone can make any judgment about those two LSP's based on your pictures since there is not enough of the house on the side that has the UPGP on it.



That said, even with the little that is there, I certainly don't see any difference between either side, and I have a full 24" HD calibrated monitor.

And, that's where I have a problem with what you said, you don't think anyone can, how about speaking for yourself?



And as mentioned before, FK1000 does not have that in your face shine. So what I'm saying, and you can't see in the pictures is, at some angles, UPGP really lets me down.



Last but not least, what does "a full 24" HD calibrated monitor" mean? You are looking at an 800x600 picture. I don't think that will push a 10 year old monitor to its limits.



Regardless, say what you will, I'm standing by my point. I am disappointed in the reflectivity of UPGP at viewing angles close to being perpendicular to the painted surface. I'm not going to argue the point with you or anyone else anymore. Maybe a few other people will start noticing when they use the product some more. It is a terrific product, very easy to use, very slick, but there is a sacrifice for me.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

And, that's where I have a problem with what you said, you don't think anyone can, how about speaking for yourself?

How about I give my opinion, which is exactly what I have done?

And as mentioned before, FK1000 does not have that in your face shine. So what I'm saying, and you can't see in the pictures is, at some angles, UPGP really lets me down.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it obviously. I don't really care. Again, you miss the point of my post, which is that your pictures really don't do anything to justify your opinion.

Last but not least, what does "a full 24" HD calibrated monitor" mean? You are looking at an 800x600 picture. I don't think that will push a 10 year old monitor to its limits.

Because often times people will question what monitor one has when someone says that they don't see something in a picture posted on the net when others supposedly do. I am simply saying that my monitor is not the issue here in terms of what I am (or am not) seeing.

Regardless, say what you will, I'm standing by my point. I am disappointed in the reflectivity of UPGP at viewing angles close to being perpendicular to the painted surface.

This just proves that you missed the point of my post (again). It has to do with your pictures that supposedly help prove your opinion.



Believe me, I know better than to try to argue with anyone about their personal opinion regarding an LSP, especially with something as subjective as "reflectivity of UPGP at viewing angles close to being perpendicular to the painted surface", other than to say I either agree with it or don't. To argue about that issue will not get anyone anywhere, and simply lead to frustration and :wall

I'm not going to argue the point with you or anyone else anymore. Maybe a few other people will start noticing when they use the product some more. It is a terrific product, very easy to use, very slick, but there is a sacrifice for me.

That's just it, though. Nobody was arguing with you about your opinion. I don't agree with it, but it isn't something that I am interested in arguing with you about. I just don't think any conclusions can be made from those pictures that you posted in any way, shape, or form. And yes, that's my opinion.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Well, I went ahead and applied another coat of UPGP after my wash with ONR. It now looks fantastic again.



It will be interesting to see what it looks like next time I wash with ONR again.

<sigh>



I washed with ONR again today. Exact same effect as before. The UPGP simply does not look as good after washing with ONR. The depth is not as good.



As I said before, this is the only time that I have ever experienced this with any wax or sealant. They have always looked better after the initial car wash (though this was not always with ONR depending on how far back you go).



This really doesn't make much sense to me, and I know there must be many, many people using UPGP with ONR that are more than happy with the results, but all I know is that for me, these two products really do not seem to play well together at all. :nixweiss

 

[Dan]

<sigh>



I washed with ONR again today. Exact same effect as before. The UPGP simply does not look as good after washing with ONR. The depth is not as good.



As I said before, this is the only time that I have ever experienced this with any wax or sealant. They have always looked better after the initial car wash (though this was not always with ONR depending on how far back you go).



This really doesn't make much sense to me, and I know there must be many, many people using UPGP with ONR that are more than happy with the results, but all I know is that for me, these two products really do not seem to play well together at all. :nixweiss

Can't say I experience that, I have FK1000P on one side of the hood and UPGP on the other, both look pretty close after a wash.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Can't say I experience that, I have FK1000P on one side of the hood and UPGP on the other, both look pretty close after a wash.

It's very strange.



I've never heard of anyone else having any type of issue like this. Like I said, it doesn't make sense to me either.



But this is the second time I have done it now (I applied another coat of UPGP after the first wash with ONR, and it looked fantastic again), and I have convinced myself that something is different, and not in a good way.



With every other sealant that I have used ONR with (AJT, OS, Z-2, UPP) the ONR always made them look better after the initial wash following application.



With UPGP, it seems to have a negative impact, with a slight, but noticeable, reduction in the appearance of depth.



I can just imagine all the people out there reading this post going , but all I can do is tell people what I see, even if it makes me look like a boob! :nixweiss

 

[Dan]

I can just imagine all the people out there reading this post going , but all I can do is tell people what I see, even if it makes me look like a boob! :nixweiss

I know your pain, we've gone back and forth on how I don't think it looks that great at some angles. I do love how slick the stuff is. Dirt just rolls off....