Which Car For $10,000 ???

While the video is entertaining it says NOTHING at all for being "sporty." A Miata wont do that but it's a reasonably quick car that takes corners and stops with some of the best right out the box. Altima 3.5, yep, that's a "sporty" car. Not a race car but it will accomplish the same thing that was accomplished in that video WITHOUT the use a supercharger. I'd like to see the 3800 compared to Nissans 3.5 or even Hondas 3.5. When it comes to refinement and being smooth while making the power there simply isn't any comparison.



Now for my recommendation. I'd say to find a 4 door GS-R Integra. I have tons of fun zinging my car to the redline on the regular and still turning back 19.x MPG around town. On the freeway it does well into the high 20's. If you're the modding type this car has an almost endless list of them available and Honda reliability to go along with them.
 
SpoiledMan said:
While the video is entertaining it says NOTHING at all for being "sporty." A Miata wont do that but it's a reasonably quick car that takes corners and stops with some of the best right out the box. Altima 3.5, yep, that's a "sporty" car. Not a race car but it will accomplish the same thing that was accomplished in that video WITHOUT the use a supercharger. I'd like to see the 3800 compared to Nissans 3.5 or even Hondas 3.5. When it comes to refinement and being smooth while making the power there simply isn't any comparison.
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To you maybe. Everyone has a different idea of what sporty is. If you'll notice, all I said was that if the LeSabre is too boaty for someone (which was not my description of the car), then the Bonneville would be sportier, as it has a firmer suspension.



To some people sporty means fast. To others it means it handles. To others it means it looks fast, regardless of how it drives. Everyone has their own opinion on what is a good car to drive, which is why there are so many different cars out there. I was merely offering a helpful suggestion to someone who expressed interest in a LeSabre.



In regards to your aside, I'd like to see Nissan or Honda do what the 3800 S/C does WITHOUT using 24 valves. Why? Well, why not, it's as arbitrary as your interest. The 3800 S/C cars can get 30mpg+ on the highway, they are reliable, low cost, and make a ton of power. Who gives a crap how it does that? There are also stock-blocked (though not stock) 3800 S/C's that run in the 13's and 12's. How many stock-blocked Honda Accords or Nissan Altimas do that?



I believe the Bonneville in that video runs 12's. How many "reasonably quick" Miatas come even remotely close to that? Do you know how well that Bonnie takes corners? Which would win on a road course? Mighten it depend on which course? Is one of those cars right and the other wrong? Is one "sporty" and the other not?
 
Well it would make more sense to compare the natural aspirated 3800 to the 3.5's wouldn't it? Your statement about the 3.5's doing it with less valves well the 3800 has 300 more cc's of displacement so now what? Fact is, the motor isn't smooth but rather course and thrashy sounding when pushed. Hey, the Honda 3.5 is so good that Saturn uses it instead of what is available from the parent company. That says a lot doesn't it?



I'm not going to crap on this guys thread any longer. I guess I really shouldn't have posted the response above in totality. You have your opinion and I have mine. We can let it be that way.:)
 
I have a Contour SVT for a daily driver. its a good looking, loaded and fun to drive car. the engine\exhaust note is nice to. I average about 23-25mpg in mixed driving and mines been very reliable too. You ahouls be able to find one between $3000 and $6000.



Dont forget about the Ford Focus either. Decent looking car, good mileage (around 30mpg), fairly peppy and the 2000 ZX# I had never gave me one single problem.
 
i get about 19-20 city out of my v6 firebird, even though its old and is close to 100k miles mark.

newer one probably do a little better. 200hp 225 torque :up , and all the looks of an exotic since not too many non-car ppl know what it is.

cost? probably half or three times less than what ure thinking, only paid 6,000$



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Corey Bit Spank said:
Oh goodness. Can a heavy car be sporty is like asking if a fat person can be a Navy SEAL.
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Yes and no it all depends on the suspension and the hp/weight ratio. For instance the RS-6 is sporty but way heavier than any economy car. Same thing goes for hardcore AMGs.
 
OK, maybe he should have said that FWD(I'm not bashing as all my cars are FWD) and heavy /= to sporty.



It's just tough to get a pig to be a cheetah!
 
SpoiledMan said:
OK, maybe he should have said that FWD(I'm not bashing as all my cars are FWD) and heavy /= to sporty.



It's just tough to get a pig to be a cheetah!
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I agree - you can make the fast but you can never make them handle.
 
2005GTPinMD said:
Yes and no it all depends on the suspension and the hp/weight ratio. For instance the RS-6 is sporty but way heavier than any economy car. Same thing goes for hardcore AMGs.
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You cannot mask weight. No amount of good suspension or powerful engine can do this.
 
Well now I wouldn't say that. The MBZ 65 cars aren't all that light and they are all rather sporty. The 7XX Bimmers are pretty sporty too.
 
Big cars can't be sporty and can't handle well? Huh? I am reading the typical spew from the import crowd here and lack of knowledge is the driving factor it seems.



Ever driven an Audi A8 or S8? It will kill your econo-box in the curves - so will a Mercury Marauder which does a .87 on the skid pad. Pretty good for a 4000lb car - it also has a 302 HP V8. Somone mentioned the AMG cars which handle on rails.



No sporty (looking) fwd Honda or Nissan or Mazda is going to out handle the cars above, sorry just not going to happen.



The imports are great cars but anyone who wants to talk about good handling isn't driving a front wheel drive car. Are you serious? You think your FWD handles well? As well as a pig wallowing in the mud? Take a Lincoln LS or a BMW 540 for a spin and you will know what real "great handling is". The fact is even a Mustang (which seems to be hated the most by import guys) will out handle any of the FWD imports. The Roush 360R Mustang handles identical to an M3!



Oh well, this will fall on deaf ears of course. Happy reading.
 
I'd agree with most of that but truthfully there is no end all be all. Have you seen the way the FWD Acura TSX deals with the RWD 3 series Bimmers in the (I forget what it's called) racing series? It's all about how it's set up and learning to do things a little different in with braking, turn in, apex and exit too.



The rags that did testing on the Integra Type R didn't call it one of the best handling FWD cars ever, they called it one of the best handling cars ever.
 
Handling is a function of chassis setup, not drivetrain layout. I believe the Honda Prelude SH was named the best handling car under $30k by Car and Driver in the late 90's, FWD and all. It beat out several RWD competitors, IIRC.



Skid-pad numbers != handling. Skid-pad numbers define "grip", which is mostly a function of tires, not chassis or suspension. Handling is a subjective term that describes not only grip, but how well a car transitions into and out of corners, on and off-throttle, on-and-off camber, etc. Almost every aspect of handling is improved by removing weight. That's basic physics, and Newton's laws at work.



Given similar suspensions, a 2500 lb. car with 190 hp has the same hp/weight ratio of a two-ton beast with 300 hp. Which will handle better? The lighter of the two, of course. Newton says, "Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it." The larger the mass of the object, the larger the external force required to alter its motion. All other things being equal, a lighter vehicle will outperform the heavier in the handling department.



While you can certainly make a big car "sporty", and even make it handle quite well compared to other vehicles on the road, you can't overcome the fact that changing direction is directly related to mass. A smaller car with similar power/weight and suitably competent suspension will have the advantage.



"To make it go faster you will have to add lightness." -- Colin Chapman



Tort
 
Mr. Glass said:
Big cars can't be sporty and can't handle well? Huh? I am reading the typical spew from the import crowd here and lack of knowledge is the driving factor it seems.



Ever driven an Audi A8 or S8? It will kill your econo-box in the curves - so will a Mercury Marauder which does a .87 on the skid pad. Pretty good for a 4000lb car - it also has a 302 HP V8. Somone mentioned the AMG cars which handle on rails.



No sporty (looking) fwd Honda or Nissan or Mazda is going to out handle the cars above, sorry just not going to happen.



The imports are great cars but anyone who wants to talk about good handling isn't driving a front wheel drive car. Are you serious? You think your FWD handles well? As well as a pig wallowing in the mud? Take a Lincoln LS or a BMW 540 for a spin and you will know what real "great handling is". The fact is even a Mustang (which seems to be hated the most by import guys) will out handle any of the FWD imports. The Roush 360R Mustang handles identical to an M3!



Oh well, this will fall on deaf ears of course. Happy reading.
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I'll agree with you that some big cars CAN handle well. I'll also agree that SOME of the import crowd doesn't really know good handling. And I'll also agree that your examples of heavy handlers are good.



However, I am NOT going to agree that no fwd Honda/Nissan/Mazda is going to outhandle say the Marauder that you mentioned. Skidpad numbers don't mean jack and is not what it means for a car to handle well. It's a small, small part of what handling is. And while you can make a heavyweight car a handler, lightness is the name of the game when it comes to handling/performance--always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS. Try transitioning thru a chicane in an Integra Type R versus a Lincoln. Please.



You say import guys generalize this and that and then you go and do the same thing in your post, making BIG sweeping generalizations about cars and people.



A Mustang will outhandle ANY fwd import? You just really hate fwd don't you? I like rwd as well, but I wouldn't dare make a statement like that cause I've seen more than a handful of fwd cars spanking mustangs at autoxes.



Oh well, this will fall on deaf ears anyway....



Edit: Basically what TortoiseAWD said. ;)
 
Realizing that I'm sorta partial to big sedans (my current performance project is the Caprice, my good car is the S8, etc.), IMO the best handling car is almost always the one driven by somebody who knows what they're doing ;)



At Mid-Ohio in the early '90s my wife was passing track-prepped cars- really great handling, fast sports cars- in a stock S-Class Benz with just good tires. She knew how to drive, had the line down cold, and the guys in fast cars were apparently suffering from testosterone-induced stupidity. A friend of mine who was an instructor there passed a ZR-1 in his Hionda CRX- I'd driven it for a day's worth of laps and I can assure you it was all driver skill, no way was *I* passing 'vettes in it :D



Just buy something you like driving and learn how to do it better.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Handling is a function of chassis setup, not drivetrain layout.



...



"To make it go faster you will have to add lightness." -- Colin Chapman



Tort
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There was a time when Lotus felt that the ideal platform for performance was FWD. It was the Elan that came out in 1990 or 91. It also had a pretty interesting front suspension arrangement and tires of a special construction to reduce torque steer. Of course, lightness was a key ingredient. And a 1.6L engine's lack of torque probably helps with torque steer also... ;)



But I agree, any car can be sporty. And different people will like different things. Trying to debate what is best is pretty pointless. I think rarely is one thing inherently better than another.



Even with mass, there are times more is better. Take a great handling light car. Would it perform better with the extra mass that comes from adding more engine, more tire, and more brake? Probably.
 
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