When is a gallon not a gallon??

He said that if I mention in my next order that I was receiving chemicals that were short, that he would throw in 16 ounces of whatever product that I was shorted.
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Why must you wait for your next order? providing you even do re-order, after being shorted I would be hesitant. They sell 16 oz sizes of their product, let them ship it now. they would have to send it in a seperate container anyways because they were having problems getting a full gallon in a gallon, so I don't think that they will be able to but an extra 16oz. in your bottle. They want you to pay the freight

If all else fails you could try to contact consumer affairs, both for your state and theirs (if they are not the same). I am sure that you would love to hear that a company is knowingly shorting a consumer.

"J"
 
Keep in mind that mention was made that the jugs were filled to approximately the same line in each case.
Like I said before, it could be an honest error based on a misunderstanding of how much the containers actually hold.
The people filling them may not realize that the fill point they are using is 8 oz. short.
The U.P.S. story may be a quick, (and IMO wrong), explanation from someone that needed to come up with some sort of an answer immediately. Kind of like some of the explanations we hear when someone is caught with their hand in the till. Or a government type spin.:)

Charles
 
I went to the CG site and pulled some pics for comparasion. To add to the mix I added a few more pictures of similar bottles from other companies. Note- the Optimum No Rinse says right on it "128 fl. oz." so thats done by the product and not weight of the bottle.

Differences in 2 CG bottles (same type)
CWS_104-2T.jpg
WAC_116-2T.jpg


A different set of bottles:
WAC_117-2T.jpg
CLD_104-2T.jpg


Other companies:
autogeek_1929_33038266
autogeek_1928_112729284

autogeek_1930_544584

yhst-36459273653932_1929_19213876
DC1559tn.jpg


It's hard to tell what is really a gallon with all of the different bottle shapes but there is an obvious difference in the amount of products in the chemical guys that have the same bottles.

I agree with Jay. Talk to them now and say you want their 16 oz. now. Why should you have to pay the additional shipping or even order from them again when they are ripping you off?
 
Where you can see where each plastic container and Mfg-er has a different fill line, and that could be for the expansion factor while shipping. What is really being discussed here is misrepentation of the product.

I don't care how you slice it, talk about shipping issues, or whatever else.

120 oz is not a gallon.

I also agree with what Charles just wrote start to do the math on the shortage based on their volume and that little 8oz starts to become quite profitable
 
When in Law School, I remember one of my professors telling the class about how Heinz Ketchup was sued because they only put 11oz of Ketchup in bottles which were labeled 12 oz.. He said there was a pretty nice fine/suit against Heinz, but the actual numbers are escaping me. I did a quick search and could not find the case, but I bet this happens in a lot of industries. One company gets caught, hit with fines, and then the rest of the companies take note and do what needs to be done to correct the problem(kind of like Arthur Anderson and KPMG).

The thing that burns me is the CG KNEW about what was going on and had an explanation for it. I can understand an over-sight or a miscalculation, but the intent to sell less product than advertised gets me.
 
But if you look closely at the top 4 pictures you can see the ones on the left contain a lot more product than the ones on the right. Side by side comparision shows that CG does alter the amount of product in the same bottles.

The other pics are there just as a reference that the bottles do change from one mfg to another. It would be interesting to compile a list of products and actually measure out the contents and see what they equal.

The ONR specifically says 128 fl. oz on the bottle (there goes the weight measurement) and if that doesn't have the right amount of product and is measured with fl. oz, then there is a huge product misrepresation. The ONR bottle looks identical to the DP 4in1 bottle but DP has more. Anyone have either (full) and want to measure?
 
Either way it was done intentionally , if by machine the machine was set to 120oz if by hand then they were told not to fill it, but there is no way UPS told them not to fill them!! I checked UPS's site for any mention on liquids and they only have shipping regulations for toxic or dangerous liquids and it is mostly about paperwork and strength of packing containers.
 
Here is a copy of the email I sent to CG this morning. I will post when I receive the 16 ounces.

Hi.

I am ready to place an order but I talked with Dan (I think I remember his name) and asked him about why my previous orders (most recent order #XXXX placed on12/28/06) of gallons of product were short 8 oz. I actually l measured the product very carefully with a measuring cup. He said that it was due to UPS having a problem with expanding chemicals, so in actuality the gallons really contained 120 ounces instead of 128. He also said that now he has new containers and that is not a problem. He offered to compensate me with 16 ounces of each product that I ordered that was not a full gallon. I really would like to place a new order but would like to have this straightened out first. Are you able to send me the following of 16 ounces each in order to make up for product before I place the order? I really don’t want to pay extra shipping. If this sounds too confusing, just click on this link, as it details everything I have been talking about:

http://www.detailcity.org/forums/detailing-product-discussion-misc/20447-when-gallon-not-gallon.html


These are the products that I have ordered from you and would like the offer Dan made to me of 16 ounces each:



MicroFiber Rejuvenator Microfiber Cleaning Detergent Concentrate Product CWS_201
Citrus Wash & Gloss Synthetic Citrus Based Hyper-Wash+GLOSS (No-More Spots) CWS_301
ACID LIKE Grime Reaper - Kills Grease and Grime, Stronger as Acid! (1 Gal) CLD_104
EXTREME BodyWash & Synthetic Wax/Gloss Enhancer –SHAMPOO CWS_107


I will look forward to receiving 16 oz. of each of the above.

Thanks for your offer of making this right. I will post to detailcity.org when I receive the products. "

(Name & address removed)
 
That's a great letter but I don't know that linking him back to here was the best thing.

Good luck with getting this settled and by all means keep us updated
 
Well, problem solved. Here's the email I received:
I requested that CG ship the products separately. Case closed, I guess.

:yay
===========================================
Dear Jack,


Thank you for your E-mail and everyone here at the Chemical Guys Wishes you a Happy New Year.

We are always more then happy to accommodate our customers. If a Customer rep. at Chemical Guys tells you something we will always honor it : ) No worries. We are unlike most companies we really care about our customers and our friends. As always if you have any problem concern or question simply call us. We make an effort to answer calls around the clock and if we miss your call we attempt to call you back very fast. Sometimes we are very busy with large orders and increasing demand for products and I may take us up to a day to return a call but this is rarely the case.

The gallons you received were from a small batch of gallon we had from last year. Chemical guys has our own mold for F Style gallons to accommodate USPS, UPS and FedEx requirements for products that are computer filled and manufacturedto full 1 gallon.. The new batch is heavier duty and more resistant, last year we received a few gallons temporary from a supplier because ours had not finished being molded. The suppliers' bottles were heavier duty but as we later found out were 8 oz smaller in size. Only very few gallons were shipped the rest were returned to the vender. As with most Chemical guys Products we always strive to give our customers more of the best quality products at the best price.

Making you happy matters to us because we want to keep you as our friend not simply our customer. Dan noted on the boards your call, and a note is also placed on your account regarding the 3 16oz bottles that Dan mentioned he would send to you. You mentioned during the phone conversation that you were planning on getting some towels and extras, if you wish you can place your order on line and simply put the list of 16oz products we are to send you into the "NOTE" box. You will not be charged for the 16oz bottles or for shipping so please do not worry. Chemical Guys never charges for products or shipping on the products we include with your order. Instead of shipping you 8oz bottles we figured 16oz bottles would be a nice bonus and as mentioned before you will not be charged for them or the shipping. If you are not placing an order or would prefer we ship you the 16oz bottles first, that is also fine, it is because you mentioned you were getting a few things that it would have been much easier for Dan to simply include the items in with your order.

If you would like the 16oz bottles sent first simply send us an e-mail with name, address, and the 3 bottles and we will have it sent out today. Little matters like this are easily solved life is short Play hard, smile and enjoy the shine of a beautiful auto. : ) Chemical Guys is here to help.

Have a great weekend we await your response.

Best Wishes,

 
You spend a life time building a good reputation, but it only takes one screw up to ruin that.

To me this letter is very resettable of someone getting caught and covering there tracks best they can, what else are they going to say?

I'd watch every product that is ordered from this point forward..I suspect that you will see the same thing again.

Good luck and thanks for the followup
 
I think that they are handling the problem in a way that is fair to you. The problem is that this situation has been something that they knew about and made no one aware of it until they were questioned as to the problem. I know they said that a relatively few gallons of product left the factory in these containers but that still doesn't justify the fact that no effort was made to adjust the selling price of the actual product. It could have been as simple as adjusting the price on those relatively few gallons that left the factory to accurately reflect the cost per ounce. How many people like you aren't being compensated for the same practice. Unfortunately it is an integrity issue. I'm sure they probably have corrected this but I'll look twice next time I buy a gallon of anything from them.
 
The positive is that they are willing to make good. It very well could be an honest mistake. If they say that it is then give atleast give them the benefit of the doubt.
Now that deosn't mean that this couldn't or wouldn't happen again, and I personally would be scrutinizing the amounts of what I would be getting from that vendor. Never hurts to ckeck every now and then juist to keep people on the up and up... On the same note it's nice if people check and mention that they got the lucky bottle with extra product in it.

It's nice to hear both the good and the bad.

Jlift thanks for letting us know about the problem and that it got resolved.

"J"
 
Not to stir the pot, as you seem to be satisfied with the outcome, but I'm wondering about the "answer" from CG's. You said:
jlift said:
I noticed that the fill line on the products that I received were not quite all the way to the top of the gallon jug (but it does seems that they were filled all exactly to the same height, about two inches below the cap).
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Which I interpret as meaning the jugs had a noticeable amount of empty space at the top of the jug. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) The answer you received said:
The new batch is heavier duty and more resistant, last year we received a few gallons temporary from a supplier because ours had not finished being molded. The suppliers' bottles were heavier duty but as we later found out were 8 oz smaller in size. Only very few gallons were shipped the rest were returned to the vender.
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-which I interpret as meaning that the jugs were smaller than a gallon, so not as much fits in.

If the jugs were smaller, you wouldn't have had a larger empty space in the jug. (Only if the jugs were made to hold MORE than the gallon would there be extra space in it since it *should* be obvious when filling the first jug (esp. if automatic/by machine calibrated to dispense exactly 1 gallon) that there was a different amount being put in the jug-Keeping track of the amount being put in for tracking inventory/costs/etc. especially if you were using a "new" jug style.) Also, you said you had an identical empty jug to measure against, and it held the full gallon, right?
It seems to me that the answer didn't address the reason for the concern (extra emptiness), .

Again, as long as you're happy, I guess that's what counts, but to me it seems that the answer doesn't make sense.:confused:
 
CharlesW said:
It doesn't seem to be a problem with Meguiar's APC, Final Inspection, Final Detail, Four Star Ultimate Gloss Enhancer, Poorboy's Spray & Wipe, Roll-Off gallon containers. I have received all the above products via U.P.S. Full containers, no visible shortage. In other words, the containers were full, but I didn't actually measure how much the containers had in them.
As far as bottom line, if the product is $30 a gallon, that's a little over 23 cents an ounce. That 8 oz. shortage is $1.84 pure profit on each $30 sale.
As I said before, I doubt that Chemical Guys are intentionally shorting people, but it is more than just a casual oversight. What do they sell per month, 10,000 gallons, 500 gallons? 500 gallons, it's "only" $920. If it's 10,000 gallons, it's only $18,400. No big deal?

Charles
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That's one side of it.. look at the other side. If you can do 3 cars with 8 oz that's a loss of 450-600 per gallon...
 
That would be a good thing, any one who purchases product should get what their hard earned dollars worth, and be aware of any problems.
Also if I remeber correctly one of their sponsor sells CG products and I would hate to see any forum's sponsor get caught in the middle of something that they have no control over.

"J"
 
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