What would you do?

Garry Dean

Garry Dean Quality!
I just wanted to follow up about the rant that I posted here a few weeks ago. I have recently talked to the owner and the employees that I was upset about and everything is good now. I went in there today to applogize about this post and to talk about my concerns. The owner took some time and explained some things to me that I was unsure about. I posted this because I was upset at the moment about my experience and as it turns out I should have thought about it longer before taking any irrational action.
 
The fact remains that their are many very good product lines for detailing. Everyone, including myself has their "favorites", however I hate when someone has a close minded attitude about competing products. I always like to experiment with new products and give new products an unbiased "real world" test, despite my penchant for using/liking several mainstays. I think you would be better served going elsewhere for your products. Sorry about your experience.
 
Sounds to me like the owner was a bit miffed that you would use the competition, instead of his brand. Which if I understand you correctly are exactly the same. So in that case it just comes down to the almighty $ and he's not making as much on the back end when you buy the competition.



I'd say find a new shop, or only go there when you have to and get in and get out.
 
Hey Premium, what brand are you talking about? Just go out at and say it so we know, its fair game on the internet.



As far as P21, R222, S100 they are owned by the same company. I BELIEVE (could be wrong) that some of the products are identical, and even up unti a couple years ago the wax was the same. P21s reformulated the wax slightly (made it better) to justify the price difference.



R222 is P21s but sold in specific countries do to trademarking. S100 and P21s have some identical and some different products, with the P21s leaning slightly more upscale if there is a difference. I personally cannot tell the difference between S100 and P21s even if they are no longer identical.



As far as the sealent debate, who knows... I'm not entirely sold on sealants creating a thicker coat (though with certain products I have seen an increase in gloss after several coats). I believe this has more to do with a more even coverage vs. building a thicker surface of wax. I have tested (I'm always testing) several different products for layering and here is what I found... (Again just my observations which in now way mean anything other then this is what I observed).



Zaino- Definite increase in durablity and slight increase in gloss with additional layers. I applied 5 coats (Z5x3, Z2x2) vs. 1 coat (Z5) on each side of my old cars hood. Not only was the side with multiple coats far more water repellent (even foaming the car would result in the foam sliding off) but the durability was increased from 5 months to 8.



Klasse- Increase in durability with multiple coats (I couldn't tell any apperance difference). 5 month of one coat of PRIME/SG vs 7 months with 4 coats of SG



Werkstat- Same as above, but then again the products are more or less identical. Only the durabilty was about a month less on each side, but it was during the summer which effects durabilty in Florida.



Collonite 845- Increase in slickness and water beading with 3 coats vs 1 coat. Both lasted about 4 months in the Florida summer (rain/sun ).



Now moving onto cure times, it is a tricky issue. Certain products (Zaino/Klasse for example) require/recommend 24 hours between coats unless used with a catalizer (Zaino ZFX for example).



Some products (Meguiars NXT/21) recommend 12 hours between coats but say it is okay if you apply the products back to back (but you should try to wait as long as possible for BEST results). When I used to use M21, I used to wait about 10-15 minutes between coats. I also waited a full day and noticed no difference what so ever.



I have been testing Blackfire sealant with Polycharger for a short while now. Here is a sealant that I have been told you can apply back to back (because it has a catalizer mixed into the product) but you should wait about 8 hours for optimal results. I have applied 3 coats back to back on one side of my wife's hood, and applied 3 coats with 8-12 hours in between on the other side. So far there is no difference but this is a new test and durabilty hasn't become an issue yet (neither side has shown any degradation).
 
nrengle said:
Sounds to me like the owner was a bit miffed that you would use the competition, instead of his brand. Which if I understand you correctly are exactly the same. So in that case it just comes down to the almighty $ and he's not making as much on the back end when you buy the competition.



I'd say find a new shop, or only go there when you have to and get in and get out.



Here is the trickiest part of it all...



If somebody sells both products then they might know the difference between them. Lets take brand X and brand Y for example...



The company sells both. Both X and Y are based around a similar forumla, with the more expensive being higher quality (lets say Y has higher amount of polymers if we are talking about sealants). So is the seller wrong for saying that Y is indeed better, when infact it is?



This happens all the time.



Should the product seller come completely clean and explain the exact differences (thus giving away some trade secrets) or should they try to defend there product with complete openness?



Premium, shoot me a PM.
 
Premium said:
They all gave me the impression that they dont like this particular product line at all. Im just curious as to why they would carry it if it werent any good. Maybe it sells? Then again, why would it sell if it werent any good and people didnt like it.



Sorry about the rant! I am just debating taking my business elsewhere.



Do you ever go into the supermarket and wonder why they have so many different brands/flavors of chips and pretzels? Are they all good and does everybody like each of them?



You can surely pick where you buy your supplies from, but it just sounds like you got your feelings hurt because the staff gave you a bit of a hard sell on the stuff they make the most money on. If you're a Chevy guy and you're in the Ford dealer, they might take a swipe at your truck, you gotta let it roll off your back, man.
 
The owner Im sure makes more $$$$$$$ off of his product line than the other, so naturally he promotes his brand as "better". The sales guys are making what, $10 an hour? I mean, they probobly think a "people skill" is a power tool company. Many business owners sadly still do not understand how to interact with people, and if you can't do this one simple thing in todays society, you will never reach the potential your business has to offer. There ia an old saying, "A man persuaded against his will is of the same opinion still." Point is, you can argue with people til your blue in the face and you won't change peoples mind. So in this situation again, I wouldn't waste my breath on trying to argue layering, sealing, etc, etc. You will not change there mind, they are of the same opinion still.
 
re-badging has been going on for decades, whether it be polish,cars or biscuits,

the sooner jo public see,s that the better for instance the mercedes slk is the

the same as the chrysler cross fire same running gear in a different skin
 
I do not think it is feasible to layer carnauba, Polymer sealants or any combination of those too. The solvents and carriers in paste/liquid waxes and polymer sealants simply strip the previous layers. Acrylic sealants seem to be the only products that can withstand layering.
 
I'd go in and buy whatever I wanted, who cares what they think. Do you have to be right?
 
If your experience is bad, stop giving them your business. People like that are not even worth debating. They are obviously biased because they are selling these products.
 
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