What is the thinnest factory paint you've found? (for those with a PTG)

Nth Degree

Nth Degree

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I seem to be cursed recently with facing really thin paints but a recent Mini Cooper S had me dumbfounded. 1.9-2.1 mils over most of the car. Hood was a little thicker at 2.6-3.0. Car is less than a year old.



I'm sure some have found where someone has thinned the paint so please limit answers to unadulterated factory paint.
 
I've seen quite a few around the 100 micron range, and a few in the 80 range, nothing below that for factory fresh paint.
 
toyotaguy said:
my mazda cx5...50-90 TOPS...probably a two step and coating coming once I get a shop lined up and thats its!
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Yep. Two of the vehicles I was referring to were Mazdas. A CX-9 and a 3speed. Both with similar (lower end) ranges.
 
OK. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but it touches on a couple of question I've had about using a PDG.



So if one of the above vehicles comes into my shop and needs/wants paint correction and I measure 80 microns (3+ mils - which would have given me great pause before I read this thread.) do I still have 40- 50 microns of clear to work with?



And how is one to know just how much clear may have been removed previously? I've seen readings on the same car vary by 50 microns.
 
i had once a client with an z4 with 50 microns on the hood , instead of full correction got an one step with da and final polish, the whole car was normal paint over 100 microns and god corrected , my meter saved me that day.
 
LeMarque said:
OK. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but it touches on a couple of question I've had about using a PDG.



So if one of the above vehicles comes into my shop and needs/wants paint correction and I measure 80 microns (3+ mils - which would have given me great pause before I read this thread.) do I still have 40- 50 microns of clear to work with?



And how is one to know just how much clear may have been removed previously? I've seen readings on the same car vary by 50 microns.
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You don't really "know" how much clear there is. Just a general presumption that the clear constitutes roughly half the thickness. Logic would dictate that the E coat/primer coats don't vary much. The color coat probably varies a little depending on the color and how much paint it takes to achieve consistent coverage. I would presume the clear coat is where the largest variance is so the thinner the overall thickness, the lower the percentage represented by the clear. (I suspect Ron would have more insight on this.)



There is little you can use to know how much has been removed. I would base that upon the readings over a whole panel. There are few times where the whole panel will be thinned consistently. Usually any significant thinning will be due to spot repairs and will be obvious by the variance from the rest of the panel. As Cosmin noted, sometimes a certain panel will vary from the rest of the car so that isn't always a reliable indicator. I had a Lexus LS460 where the top surface of the trunk lid averaged ~4 while the rear, vertical surface was ~2.4. It was unusual but not unheard of for different parts of a panel to vary. I also find lower doors are generally thinner than the upper part. You just have to observe the patterns and look for variances in it.
 
I do find this thread a bit interesting.

First, all the vehicle manufacturer's paint rep's that I have worked with over the past 3 or 4 decades, do not use "micro's" for measurement, unless a couple of Mazda guys out of Japan back in the mid 90's

Second thing is "what is one is measuring, humm, just what are you actually checking?".

An electronic thickness gauge measures the "entire" paint film build, and so one must address the information that is out there regarding the "average" film build of the clearcoat of an OEM paint application.

Go back to a couple of my old, mid 70's vehicles, with all original factory (OEM) paint, no refinishing, and most would have their jaw drop!

Example, my 1977 T-Bird will measure out at 2.5 to 3 mil, anywhere on the panels, all original paint, no refinish at all.

So, what "may you have to work with?"

What is "paint and what is primers?", "What is the actual all important clearcoat film build", etc.

Then, let's move forward to a period of time when the US manufacturer's were using, on some models, a "powder coat" primer. That would raise the total mil readings to 1.5 to 2.5 of increased total film build readings.

In those cases, vehicles, of the same model, but assembled but built in a different plant, would give a big difference in the total film build readings. One plant's production off the line would show a 4.5 to 5.5 average total film build reading.

From another plant, building the same vehicle/model, could show at total film build of 6.2 to 8.5 mils.
 
So, Ron, in your opinion are the thinner paints being found likely to be a reduction of all layers or is it more likely that the clear is simply being reduced? Or, in other words, is the clear coat becoming a lower percentage of the make up of the paint?
 
I just picked up a delivery for a daihatsu luxio white color readings are 50 microns all around the car.. can't figure whether it's single stage or not...any way to know whether it's clear coated or not ? the color white and white polish doesn't help much.
 
sulla said:
I just picked up a delivery for a daihatsu luxio white color readings are 50 microns all around the car.. can't figure whether it's single stage or not...any way to know whether it's clear coated or not ? the color white and white polish doesn't help much.
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Menzerna SF4000 on a black pad or D300 if you want to be a little more aggressive. Won't take but a few seconds to have the white transfer if it is single stage.
 
Ron Ketcham said:
I do find this thread a bit interesting.

First, all the vehicle manufacturer's paint rep's that I have worked with over the past 3 or 4 decades, do not use "micro's" for measurement, unless a couple of Mazda guys out of Japan back in the mid 90's

Second thing is "what is one is measuring, humm, just what are you actually checking?".

An electronic thickness gauge measures the "entire" paint film build, and so one must address the information that is out there regarding the "average" film build of the clearcoat of an OEM paint application.

Go back to a couple of my old, mid 70's vehicles, with all original factory (OEM) paint, no refinishing, and most would have their jaw drop!

Example, my 1977 T-Bird will measure out at 2.5 to 3 mil, anywhere on the panels, all original paint, no refinish at all.

So, what "may you have to work with?"

What is "paint and what is primers?", "What is the actual all important clearcoat film build", etc.

Then, let's move forward to a period of time when the US manufacturer's were using, on some models, a "powder coat" primer. That would raise the total mil readings to 1.5 to 2.5 of increased total film build readings.

In those cases, vehicles, of the same model, but assembled but built in a different plant, would give a big difference in the total film build readings. One plant's production off the line would show a 4.5 to 5.5 average total film build reading.

From another plant, building the same vehicle/model, could show at total film build of 6.2 to 8.5 mils.
Click to expand...





I just had a Audi Q5 in my shop, and one panel had previous strike thru already present with 4.7 Mils so this is why I will upgrade from a DFT DeFelsko to a model like I have from them which I use for composites/carbon fiber/FRP etc...... which measures multiple layers, clients do not know what has happened to their car previously but if YOU go thru YOU will be the one paying.
 
With modern clears, the factory's normal application is two coats of clear, resulting in 1.5 to 2.5 mil of clear. Any less and it prematurly fails due to lack of sufficent UV blockers and density.
 
Ron Ketcham said:
With modern clears, the factory's normal application is two coats of clear, resulting in 1.5 to 2.5 mil of clear. Any less and it prematurly fails due to lack of sufficent UV blockers and density.
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So 1.9 to 2.3 total paint build = "Your new car will look like crap long before you pay it off."
 
Ron Ketcham said:
With modern clears, the factory's normal application is two coats of clear, resulting in 1.5 to 2.5 mil of clear. Any less and it prematurly fails due to lack of sufficent UV blockers and density.
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It seems like "Tag, Your It". So the mini, etc. with 2.0 Mils +/- , using your above specs, the panels would have to have the 'color' blended into the panel, i.e., the sheet metal rolls off the mill blue, white or whatever color, other wise the clear would fail.
 
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