What Happened To Cheap Clay After The Patent Expired?

I traded my Speedy Towel. It was ok plus I have a stash of Mothers Clay (bought a bunch when Advance had an end of season clearance) to last me a long time.
 
Guys, as much as I appreciate all the clay-substitute and ebay clay suggestions, my point (which may not have been clear) was toward the business/legal angle of this, not the technical angle of the product or products themselves. In other words the business/market forces at work behind clay pricing.

ec90 said:
just because Clay Magic owned the patent it's not like numerous types of clay weren't produced, it was just all by them.
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I don't think Auto Wax Co./Auto Magic/Clay Magic ever made any clay. The patent holder is from Japan, Auto Wax Co. was simply the licensee of the patent(Auto Wax Co. did later on receive some patents for application of the clay, i.e. holders, baggie test, etc.). Clay Magic and most other clay that was sold here all said "Made in Japan" (they all had the rectangular bar shape and the crinkly plastic wrapping). There obviously was another licensed mfr. providing product sold here, and that was the "ball" clay such as Griot's yellow and the purple clay sold at TOL, those have more of a saran wrap packaging and are a ball (although sometimes squished into a rectangular plastic case) rather than the extruded bar look of Clay Magic and others.

PS I doubt the Erazer people would agree that "numerous types ofclay were produced", as their argument that their "elastic" clay was different than the "plastic" clay sold by Clay Magic (or at least different enough to skirt the patent) was shot down by the courts. (The Erazer/Riccardo (and some others) is a third shape, it looks more like it was cut out of a sheet.)


Dellinger said:
I think ADS has a Japanese clay, fine, for $12. 200 grams. (Have not tried it but will on my next order.)
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It's $12.95 with a regular price of $16. I don't think that's any/much cheaper than other off brand or sale clays have been.

It's possible that no one else (other than whoever has been doing it) has decided to manufacture clay, perhaps because of the perception that clay is passé now, so there is no competitive pressure on the clay makers, until and unless their sales start to drop. There are also several other clay patents, a couple of which are expiring later this year, which may somehow be restricting the market.
 
This is what I thought the Clay story was...

11/11/2011

"Auto Magic holds the US Patent on detailing clay. While they make a small amount in Texas, the great majority of clay comes from 2 companies in Japan, and they simply sell it.

Clay is made to vendor's specs - color, consistency, etc.

Auto Magic's clay patent expires in 2013. What happens then is anyone's guess, but I'd lean towards a big price decrease as others start making it.

The Japanese companies are much larger than Auto Wax is. They simply buy the clay from the Japanese (2 companies) and resell it here in the US. One of those companies helped Auto Wax set up a small production line in the Dallas area where Auto Wax is, so they can make small runs, but I'd wager it's less than 10% of what is sold here.

BTW, the original owner of Auto Wax sold it a few years ago to ITW (Illinois Tool Works). It's a bazillion dollar company that deals primarily in adhesives. If you go to the ITW website (Illinois Tool Works: Global Diversified Manufacturer) you'll have to look long and hard to find Auto Wax company in there - it's a really small part of a really big company now.

AWC doesn't license those Japanese companies - AWC is just a customer who buys from them.

When you look at total dollars, clay is actually an insignificant part of the appearance chemical business. Tire shines, for example, sell at about 9 times the dollar volume of clay bars. Clay is about 1.5% of the appearance chemical market.

All detail products companies purchase from Auto Magic. It would be interesting to see what Clay Magic generates in private label sales to so many of the detailing products companies."

Anyway in you want cheap Nanoskin Autoscrub Sponge - FINE GRADE <$15
 
Heh heh, just read through this thread...interesting point about the clay situation not changing in a big way and gee, guess it's I just knew there'd be some "use something else!" comments.

Noting that I probably have a lifetime supply of the clays I use, did the "elastic"/Smart/Ricardo/whatever clay ever return to the US market?

And no, I won't be replacing clay if only because *used properly* I can "clay my LSP clean" without having to reapply, and I simply *like* the sense of control I have with it. Also have a knee-jerk dislike for the idea of rubbing the "clay towels" against my paint; I just don't use clay that way and wouldn't cover square-inches at a time with a substitute either. Admittedly, I don't use clay for serious decontamination...
 
Accumulator said:
Noting that I probably have a lifetime supply of the clays I use, did the "elastic"/Smart/Ricardo/whatever clay ever return to the US market?
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Yeah, it's kind if interesting really, I remember back in the day when Bill D would post the press releases about the Erazer/Clay Magic lawsuit. If you remember in addition to the Smart Clay, Optimum had Opti-Clay, and it turns out that they never stopped selling it outside of the US. So yes, the elastic clay is back, the Opti-Clay is now in 2 2oz bars instead of one 4oz, just like the Riccardo. I don't know what the significance is of that, I used to wonder if the Erazer guy was making his clay for foreign markets, but it seemed like the punitive action from the court bankrupted him, so perhaps it's a different supplier that makes it in smaller bars.

In some odd twist, I just looked at the Riccardo clays in the PBMG stores, and the yellow clay has disappeared, they only have the blue (described as "moderate" vs. the yellow "mild") now, which comes in a 5oz or 8oz bar.

Since there are multiple patents, I never thought the first one that expired in 2013 would be the one that would allow the elastic clay back into the market, but I was wrong. There are a couple of more patents expiring this year, not sure if that changes anything.
 
I was one of those that had to get the Ricky Ricardo clay and jeez, stuff was some of the worst I ever had,almost as bad as that megs crap. I wish I could find a sucker to buy that stash off me. And George, I just thought of who you remind me of, that T-bird guy in that Cheech and Chong movie! I know we're the same age and I figured you know what I am talking about.
 
Accumulator said:
Ah, wonder how many people use it, I've always liked that stuff for jobs where the Sonus SFX is too gentle.
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Junebug said:
I was one of those that had to get the Ricky Ricardo clay and jeez, stuff was some of the worst I ever had,almost as bad as that megs crap. I wish I could find a sucker to buy that stash off me. And George, I just thought of who you remind me of, that T-bird guy in that Cheech and Chong movie! I know we're the same age and I figured you know what I am talking about.
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Blue clay is kinda harsh, the yellow is great.

Also have some PB and new PB clay, both great
 
Ronkh said:
{Riccardo}Blue clay is kinda harsh, the yellow is great.
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Well, this weird, as I noted before they only have the blue now at the PBMG stores, AG calls it "aggressive", ACC calls it "moderate" (but for neglected finishes). I was wondering why they don't have the yellow (which was referred to as "mild"), and whether they are dropping the line, so I went to eshine to see if they still had the yellow. Well, now eshine is calling the blue "mild", and the yellow "medium" and they have a new heavy black. And the sizes on the yellow now match the blue.

Aside from the fact that swapping colors makes things really confusing for people that use this clay (reminds me of Lake Country inverting the colors on they Hybrid pads), it would appear that they may have changed suppliers...which means perhaps the premise of my thread is wrong. Perhaps it's just taken this time for new suppliers to ramp up, perhaps they also thought 2015 was when the patent would expire and were unprepared to enter the market in 2013. Perhaps the clay pricing revolution is right around the corner.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Well, this weird, as I noted before they only have the blue now at the PBMG stores, AG calls it "aggressive", ACC calls it "moderate" (but for neglected finishes). I was wondering why they don't have the yellow (which was referred to as "mild"), and whether they are dropping the line, so I went to eshine to see if they still had the yellow. Well, now eshine is calling the blue "mild", and the yellow "medium" and they have a new heavy black. And the sizes on the yellow now match the blue.

Aside from the fact that swapping colors makes things really confusing for people that use this clay (reminds me of Lake Country inverting the colors on they Hybrid pads), it would appear that they may have changed suppliers...which means perhaps the premise of my thread is wrong. Perhaps it's just taken this time for new suppliers to ramp up, perhaps they also thought 2015 was when the patent would expire and were unprepared to enter the market in 2013. Perhaps the clay pricing revolution is right around the corner.
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Dunno/don't care, I got enough to last thru 3 generations I think.
 
Ronkh said:
Dunno/don't care, I got enough to last thru 3 generations I think.
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Yeah, me too. Truth be told I've never used my Erazer-type clay, by the time I got some and got to the point where I might use it, it was already unavailable and then the hoarding instinct kicked in and I decided not to use it. Over time I have...er...accumulated so much clay through sales etc. (and most recently that Advance Auto nickel thing), and when you work on the same cars all the time they don't need much claying, so, well, let's just say I have plenty of clay. I'm pretty sure there is an old thread on here with me suggesting I had plenty of clay to last until the patents ran out...and here we are and I have even more than I thought I would!
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, me too. Truth be told I've never used my Erazer-type clay, by the time I got some and got to the point where I might use it, it was already unavailable and then the hoarding instinct kicked in and I decided not to use it. Over time I have...er...accumulated so much clay through sales etc. (and most recently that Advance Auto nickel thing), and when you work on the same cars all the time they don't need much claying, so, well, let's just say I have plenty of clay. I'm pretty sure there is an old thread on here with me suggesting I had plenty of clay to last until the patents ran out...and here we are and I have even more than I thought I would!
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Pretty much same for me. I was down to my last3 containers of PB and about 4 3/packs of ricardo when I posted the thread asking when patents expired. The patents expired about 3 weeks later. So I bought some more ricardo from pbmg. Then I ordered the new PB clay, and then my son brought all my stuff down from CT. So yep, I am a hoarder.


Desperately seeking a detailing addiction cure............................
 
If someone wanted to make really cheap clay they could but they'd have to sell it direct. Every time any product changes hands the price gets increased. Even with that, there's no real incentive for manufacturers to compete on price. As a whole, they're only going sell so many bars, so competing on price just means they all divide up a smaller pie and there's no fun in that.
Robert
 
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