Wet Sanding Lessons

I

imported_Detailing Technology

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Is anyone interested in learning to wet sand paint? It is very easy and something you should not be afraid of if you are a detailer. I have wet sanded thousands of cars with excellent results that would blow your mind. If I get a decent response, Ill set up a doc with the data for everyone to review.



Just an introduction:



“My paint has too much orange peel, can you wet sand it flat like glass?�

- I can get it pretty close. But you need to know that automotive clear coat has UV protectant in it that rises to the top while curing. Sanding all of the orange peel out of your finish will remove some of those protective qualities. Regular waxing will now be a necessity





“I am afraid I will sand through my clear coat and ruin my car.�

- You can do this easily! You need to be careful and keep your eye on the sanding progress. Constantly wipe the sanded area with a squeegee and towel as you go. Apply smooth flat pressure to the paper to avoid finger marks. Keep the water clean and add a little soap to it. Don’t let the sanding residue dry on the car.



“How much paper do I need?�



- I have sanded complete Lexus LS400’s with 3 sheets of 2000 grit 3M paper. I fold the paper in thirds and soak it for 30 minutes prior to sanding. Of course a poor quality paint job or an older finish will require more paper and coarser grit papers like 1500 and 1200. You can also use an air powered D/A with D/A sanding papers. I prefer the old school hand method; you have more control and security.



“What chemicals are involved?�

- I use only 3M Perfect-it materials and pads for this procedure. You will also need a rotary polisher with variable speed. If you try to do this with a D/A, good luck. The slower the speed, the better the job. After sanding, I use a 3M white foam pad and Perfect-it III compound. This will get the finish free of all sanding marks and shining. You can make your own calls from here on what to use. I use 3M foam pad glaze and a black 3M foam pad for 2 passes to polish the micro scratches out. Then I use a Cyclo or a Porter Cable D/A with black or blue LC pads and some paste wax to add protection and shine.





“Why wet sand?�



- Wet sanding is like starting over. You will get all of the imperfections out of the paint that are able to be removed. You then will be polishing a smooth even finish that will result in, if done properly, a perfect finish.



“How much do you charge to wet sand a car?�

- I would charge $500.00 (2006 dollars) to wet sand and polish a mid-size sedan regardless of color. I would expect to take 2 to 3 hrs to sand the car and 2 hrs to polish it. There is a risk involved and you need to be compensated for it. This is a professional’s only job.
 
I would love to wetsand, but more importantly in person under the guidance of someone else....but I have no idea where to learn....I talked to body shops and they said no because of liability and I am not covered in case of an accident like their employees....understandable....where else do you think I might be able to learn? orange county....apart from just reading up on it
 
I will start a video, Ill also try to set up a web cast on my site so you all can watch the progress and what I am looking for in the paint.



I read about some guy polishing a car 8x to get it to shine, but was afraid to wet sand. He probally removed more clear by polishing than he would have by wet sanding. Not to mention the time saved and end results.
 
I can't speak for the majority of the users on this board, but I'll go out on a limb and say that D/A owners probably out-number rotary owners just because of the ease of use with D/A orbitals. Again, this is just a guess...



With that said, I know there have been threads where people have been able to polish out 2500 wetsanding marks with a PC and combination of products. What would be a real neat trick is to show how-to videos (edited for time constraints) of the various results that may be obtained with a rotary & PC after wetsanding. Time is really what's on my mind in terms of tackling this daunting task (how long do I work the product with a rotary vs. PC to get out the sanding marks). Some of the noted control variables would be sand paper grit, foam pad (color, manufacturer), lubricant (polish), speed used and length of time to get achieved results.



This, I understand, would be very difficult, but would probably take the fear out of wetsanding if someone can actually "show" what's possible with the proper technique & tools. Before and after pictures are great, don't get me wrong, but to actually see it from start to finish with all the in-between work, would be taking things to another level. I for one, can't wait to see some stuff. I've got a PC and a few pads in my arsenal but, like everyone else, I am very gun shy about putting the sandpaper to the clear coat!



Thanks again for putting this together!

-Mike
 
mixxmstrmike said:
I can't speak for the majority of the users on this board, but I'll go out on a limb and say that D/A owners probably out-number rotary owners just because of the ease of use with D/A orbitals. Again, this is just a guess...



With that said, I know there have been threads where people have been able to polish out 2500 wetsanding marks with a PC and combination of products. What would be a real neat trick is to show how-to videos (edited for time constraints) of the various results that may be obtained with a rotary & PC after wetsanding. Time is really what's on my mind in terms of tackling this daunting task (how long do I work the product with a rotary vs. PC to get out the sanding marks). Some of the noted control variables would be sand paper grit, foam pad (color, manufacturer), lubricant (polish), speed used and length of time to get achieved results.



This, I understand, would be very difficult, but would probably take the fear out of wetsanding if someone can actually "show" what's possible with the proper technique & tools. Before and after pictures are great, don't get me wrong, but to actually see it from start to finish with all the in-between work, would be taking things to another level. I for one, can't wait to see some stuff. I've got a PC and a few pads in my arsenal but, like everyone else, I am very gun shy about putting the sandpaper to the clear coat!



Thanks again for putting this together!

-Mike
Click to expand...



A sheet of notebook paper is rougher than 2500 grit paper. (kidding) I wouldnt try to remove sanding marks with a D/A, I'd be concerned that it would put a shine over the scratches and not remove them. You need some serious ampage to remove the sanding marks, I dont think a 3.9 amp Porter Cable D/A can do it. We'll try on the video - but be aware, it is not recommended.
 
I'm planning on filling in a keyed scratch and wetsanding it down to level with the rest of the paint. Then I'm going to polish, etc. Are you saying my PC with an SFX polishing pad and PB 2.5 will not be enough to make it work?



P.S. Your guide sounds like a great idea and I'd love to see it before I try my little touch-up :)
 
I would recommend that neophytes extend their knowledge of wetsanding **WELL BEYOND THIS POSTING**.



It is not 'easy', and it is not fun. It is also not correctible.



Write this down: Do Your Due Diligence.



Research this phrase if you must... but, Do Your Due Diligence.



Jim
 
jsatek said:
A sheet of notebook paper is rougher than 2500 grit paper. (kidding) I wouldnt try to remove sanding marks with a D/A, I'd be concerned that it would put a shine over the scratches and not remove them. You need some serious ampage to remove the sanding marks, I dont think a 3.9 amp Porter Cable D/A can do it. We'll try on the video - but be aware, it is not recommended.
Click to expand...



I wetsand with 3M trizact paper and then polish with Menzerna and a PC. I"ve never had a sanding spot come back on me. Do'nt underestimate the power of the PC and a good polish. :xyxthumbs
 
Sounds like good information..



I'm goin to wet sand the touch up paint on car in the future.. Hoping to see some pictures and some videos :2thumbs:
 
Sanding all of the orange peel out of your finish will remove some of those protective qualities. Regular waxing will now be a necessity
Click to expand...



So why will regular waxing be necessary?



If you feel wax has UV protection in it then this is ill advice because they don't. You may get great results but I always avoid wetsanding and only do it as a last resort. I have never seen in written form nor have I ever been told that OEM paint "should" be wetsanded...at least not from product and paint manufacturers.



I'm not saying it "can't" be done (I have sanded many OEM paints) just that it should be avoided. For all those seeking to wetsand.....tread cautiously!



Anthony
 
Jimmy Buffit said:
I would recommend that neophytes extend their knowledge of wetsanding **WELL BEYOND THIS POSTING**.



It is not 'easy', and it is not fun. It is also not correctible.



Write this down: Do Your Due Diligence.



Research this phrase if you must... but, Do Your Due Diligence.



Jim
Click to expand...



Believe half of what you see and none of what you read?



I agree. Do your oun due diligence. bt if you want to wet sand a car. I can show what to look for. Whatever this means to the readers, like Warren said, google it if you need to.



Warren Buffett (Berkshire Hathaway is much more prominent)- If you do this for a living, no it isnt fun. I did it during college and during my masters degree. Working in a body shop that a friend owned gave me the flexibility to go to class (almost 12 years ago) and earn enough to pay for necessities. (books, car ,drinking, clothes)
 
Anthony Orosco said:
So why will regular waxing be necessary?



If you feel wax has UV protection in it then this is ill advice because they don't. You may get great results but I always avoid wetsanding and only do it as a last resort. I have never seen in written form nor have I ever been told that OEM paint "should" be wetsanded...at least not from product and paint manufacturers.



I'm not saying it "can't" be done (I have sanded many OEM paints) just that it should be avoided. For all those seeking to wetsand.....tread cautiously!



Anthony
Click to expand...



The finish on the car will take a beating from the sun. You will see a moderate reduction in color depth if wax is not regularly applied.



Dont be confused by "beads" of water. That only signals a healthy paint finish. Wax usually carnauba starts to melt away on a 90 degree day.
 
To all that decide to follow along with this you need to understand that you only know when you've gone too far when the paint doesn't shine any longer. The only way to fix this is through repainting. You have been warned! A paint thickness gauge is USELESS on a repainted panel and only a guide on a factory painted panel. It will only give you TOTAL film build and NOT how much clear there is to sand away.



Again, you have been warned!!!
 
Jimmy Buffit said:
I would recommend that neophytes extend their knowledge of wetsanding **WELL BEYOND THIS POSTING**.



It is not 'easy', and it is not fun. It is also not correctible.



Write this down: Do Your Due Diligence.



Research this phrase if you must... but, Do Your Due Diligence.



Jim
Click to expand...





Why not just advise the novice to practice on discarded body shop panels??? Wet sanding paint isn’t like drilling on teeth. Please make the video!!!
 
jsatek said:
The finish on the car will take a beating from the sun. You will see a moderate reduction in color depth if wax is not regularly applied.



Dont be confused by "beads" of water. That only signals a healthy paint finish. Wax usually carnauba starts to melt away on a 90 degree day.
Click to expand...



I mean no offense here so please don't take it personally, but I read elsewhere, and please correct me if I am in error on this, but you stated that you have not waxed a car in 10 years....correct?



I am not questioning your wetsanding skills as I am sure you do a great job but wax will not help in any way shape or form in regards to UV protection. This is what fades color and this is why waxed single stage paints continue to oxidize. So you are telling guys to wetsand their cars knowing full well that they are messing with the UV protection which resides in the upper most levels of the clear coat, which you have also warned them of, and then telling them to wax their cars often to reduce any damage yet wax won't do anything to replace nor protect their cars from UV damage....unless UV abosrobers are added to a wax that's the only way you'll get protection.



You are handing out misinformation.



In regards to beads of water and it being a signal to healthy paint......what if my paint is healthy yet it sheets water? While a wax beads water a polymer will sheet water more that bead it, correct?



Yes wax does begin to break down at higher temps but getting the clear coat too hot during buffing can be very serious also and the more clear one removes the faster heat builds up thus increasing chances of burn through. The clear coat is basically plastic, a polyurethane, and if you get it too hot what happens to the scratches?



I wish you all the best and again wetsanding CAN be done but to do it for only cosmetic reasons on an OEM finish is very risky. On a re-paint where the clear is normally thicker then wetsanding is a great way to get a glass finish.....especially if the owner tells the painter to lay it on thick!! :waxing:



Take care,

Anthony
 
JSATEK...with all the warnings (rightfully so) to the novice detailers aside, I would love to learn more about wetsanding. I've never wetsanded an entire factory-painted car before, but when I've sanded repaints (years after they've cured), it usually takes me at least 3 hours to sand the entire car and only in my wildest dreams could I have the entire car wax-ready in 2-3 hours of polishing! I still have a lot to learn in this department.



And good advice on keeping the water clean and debris clear from the paint - I was a little slow to figure this one out...otherwise you get a few "rogue" scratches much deeper than the rest.
 
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