Well, this is where I start, YEA or NEA?

Decisions decisions, I am going to sleep on it!



Have you ever used Zaino ZPC, what is your opinion of the product in my situation?



Is it a one step from ZPC to sealent/wax? Is it compatible with Klasse AIO?



From what I have been able to figure out Menzerna is really a 2 step polish, first IP than the FP II, especially on "BLACK" paint.



As for the 05937 replacement, the guy in the paint store said the paint shops weren't to fond of it either, not his exact words, LOL.

Changeling
 
Heh heh, this is turning into quite a decision, huh?



I've never used any Zaino stuff except their tire dressing. I'd expect their ZPC to leave a ready-to-wax finish and I'm sure it's OK to use it before AIO.



Dunno about the Menzerna-being-2-step....it's just making it more complicated. You could use the FPII by itself (maybe too mild, same as maybe the 05937 would be too mild). Adding the IP and saying Menzerna is a two-step is like adding 3M PI-III Rubbing Compound 05933 before the 05937 and saying that makes 3M a two-step polishing process. Most manufacturers offer both a strong and a mild polish but it's not like everybody uses both steps all the time.



FWIW, those two 3M products are what I use, I almost always need something a bit stronger than the 05937 for *something*. I don't like the PI-3000 replacement for that rubbing compound either!



SO...one step means one product, one that'll leave a ready-to-wax finish but might not remove serious flaws. Two step means more time but better results. And you really won't go wrong buying Zaino, Menzerna, Optimum, you name it- most of the big names you read about here make great products.



I just think the 05937/Klasse approach has worked so well for me, and was so user-friendly (such as this stuff ever is) that it's still worth considering even though you don't hear much about it here any more. My recommendations tend to be stuff that I've had lots of good experience with and it's sure not like the other choices would be bad ideas.
 
Use the FPII to polish the paint to your level of "shine satisfaction", then the AIO and the SG. I have used this combo on my 97 black BMW and have been happy with the results. (Altho next time I will be follow the FPII with the Menzerna FTG then their FMJ).



I would echo someone's previous comment re the thinness of the SG: even when you think it's thin enough, you are probably still too heavy. It takes some getting used to the idea that even if you can barely see it, the SG is still going on. If you can see it, it's prob'ly too much.

Nick
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, this is turning into quite a decision, huh?



I've never used any Zaino stuff except their tire dressing. I'd expect their ZPC to leave a ready-to-wax finish and I'm sure it's OK to use it before AIO.



Dunno about the Menzerna-being-2-step....it's just making it more complicated. You could use the FPII by itself (maybe too mild, same as maybe the 05937 would be too mild). Adding the IP and saying Menzerna is a two-step is like adding 3M PI-III Rubbing Compound 05933 before the 05937 and saying that makes 3M a two-step polishing process. Most manufacturers offer both a strong and a mild polish but it's not like everybody uses both steps all the time.



FWIW, those two 3M products are what I use, I almost always need something a bit stronger than the 05937 for *something*. I don't like the PI-3000 replacement for that rubbing compound either!



SO...one step means one product, one that'll leave a ready-to-wax finish but might not remove serious flaws. Two step means more time but better results. And you really won't go wrong buying Zaino, Menzerna, Optimum, you name it- most of the big names you read about here make great products.



I just think the 05937/Klasse approach has worked so well for me, and was so user-friendly (such as this stuff ever is) that it's still worth considering even though you don't hear much about it here any more. My recommendations tend to be stuff that I've had lots of good experience with and it's sure not like the other choices would be bad ideas.
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Accumulator, I decided to get the 05937, I'll pick it up tomorrow, hell it's only money :bawling:

This will put one more thing out of the way.

So far this is what I have:

05937 (pick up tomorrow, Tuesday)

Klasse AIO and SG

S100 wax (same as ps21s, stated on this web site)

WOLFGANG 6" lambs wool polishing pad

5 " flexible backing plate (bought at Auto Geek, supposed to be LC or WOLFGANG.



The next order of business is the 6" pads for the backing plate. These are for doing as much with the PC 7424 as I can. I am considering the LC CCS pads that were introduced just recently. Only one company has them right now, but Autogeek will have them for sale starting January 1, 07.

I don't know if you have them or not but I read one review that sounded very positive on this web site. The reviewer seems to have a good reputation and seems to be an honest/sincere type of person.

I figure if I have to buy everything now I might as well go with the best, they only cost a dollar or so more than the regular pads (which are already ridiculously overpriced)

and after all, it's only money :bawling:



I am considering 2 polishing (white) and 2 red which are a finer polish I think. Still a little confused on the pad colors. I don't know if the colors are universally equal , like white would be polishing for all manufactures or not.

There also seems to be a wide range of colors and amount that I need of each color to start without cutting myself short, what is your opinion? After all it's only money :bawling:



Changeling



If I am not being nosy, how in the world do you know so much about all these things, are you a auto painter, or is this just a life long type hobby?
 
Changeling said:
Accumulator, I decided to get the 05937, I'll pick it up tomorrow, hell it's only money :bawling:

This will put one more thing out of the way.

So far this is what I have:

05937 (pick up tomorrow, Tuesday)

Klasse AIO and SG

S100 wax (same as ps21s, stated on this web site)

WOLFGANG 6" lambs wool polishing pad

5 " flexible backing plate (bought at Auto Geek, supposed to be LC or WOLFGANG.



The next order of business is the 6" pads for the backing plate. These are for doing as much with the PC 7424 as I can. I am considering the LC CCS pads that were introduced just recently...



I am considering 2 polishing (white) and 2 red which are a finer polish I think. Still a little confused on the pad colors. I don't know if the colors are universally equal , like white would be polishing for all manufactures or not.

There also seems to be a wide range of colors and amount that I need of each color to start without cutting myself short, what is your opinion?



... If I am not being nosy, how in the world do you know so much about all these things, are you a auto painter, or is this just a life long type hobby?
Click to expand...



It's just a long-term hobby (well, more like a never-ending chore in my book ;) ) that I take pretty seriously. I've been pretty heavily involved in the whole car-hobby thing since the '70s. And I enjoy offering my $0.02 on stuff that interests me.



OK, hope you like that 05937. Post something about how it works for you and if it's a huge disappointment send me a PM about it (after all, I *was* a pretty hard sell on it and that's a lot of something to have if you don't like it).



I assume you got the wool PC pad to use under MF bonnets (I sure don't recommend using it to polish with the PC, but I've never tried that one). FWIW I prefer foam pads under the bonnets as the wool tends to compress after a little use and thus offer compromised cushioning. Heh heh, *now* I tell you, huh :o



No, I haven't tried any of the new pads, I'm still working my way through a zillion old pads I already have. And unfortunately the different makers don't use the same color coding :rolleyes:



With the mildness of the 05937 I don't see any point in a pad more aggressive than the white polishing pads.



For AIO, *I* tend to use polishing pads. As long as they don't have any functional cut (and the LC white pads don't on *my* b/c paint but I dunno for sure about yours) then a polishing pad is less likely to load up and I just like the firmer feel of 'em compared to a finishing pad. If there's some "very gentle polishing pad" I'd get that for the AIO.



I don't apply my KSG by PC as I just can't get that super-thin application I want (and goodness knows I've tried). If you *do* want to apply it that way, use a finishing pad.



I'm not convinced that we need all the different types/varieties pads for *most* applications but a regular polishing pad and a milder polishing pad is a distinction I'm OK with in this case.



In *every* case, get at least one spare pad of each type in addition to the ones you expect to need. No foolin' [stuff] really does happen at the worst possible moment.
 
I read your reply, answered, it all went down the drain when I tried to send it!

Right now, I just have to much to do to answer again! Dinner, clothes, etc,.

Who says the single life is so great!!



I'll get back to you tomorrow.



Changeling
 
Accumulator said:
It's just a long-term hobby (well, more like a never-ending chore in my book ;) ) that I take pretty seriously. I've been pretty heavily involved in the whole car-hobby thing since the '70s. And I enjoy offering my $0.02 on stuff that interests me.



OK, hope you like that 05937. Post something about how it works for you and if it's a huge disappointment send me a PM about it (after all, I *was* a pretty hard sell on it and that's a lot of something to have if you don't like it).



I got the 05937/05938 today, but they saw me coming! The price went up to $95.00 !!



I assume you got the wool PC pad to use under MF bonnets (I sure don't recommend using it to polish with the PC, but I've never tried that one). FWIW I prefer foam pads under the bonnets as the wool tends to compress after a little use and thus offer compromised cushioning. Heh heh, *now* I tell you, huh :o



That was my intention on the wool pad, but after your remarks, I guess I'll be changing my plan. I'll use the MF bonnets over a pad. Are the MF bonnets better than terry cloth bonnets, why?



No, I haven't tried any of the new pads, I'm still working my way through a zillion old pads I already have. And unfortunately the different makers don't use the same color coding :rolleyes:



I will order 2 white (polishing) and 2 finishing I think they are red or black on the CCS pads. I have to investigate this more.



With the mildness of the 05937 I don't see any point in a pad more aggressive than the white polishing pads.



Ok, but what would happen if you used a light cutting pad with 05937, how does it change the polishing relative to just using a polishing pad??



For AIO, *I* tend to use polishing pads. As long as they don't have any functional cut (and the LC white pads don't on *my* b/c paint but I dunno for sure about yours) then a polishing pad is less likely to load up and I just like the firmer feel of 'em compared to a finishing pad. If there's some "very gentle polishing pad" I'd get that for the AIO.



OK, it shall be done!



I don't apply my KSG by PC as I just can't get that super-thin application I want (and goodness knows I've tried). If you *do* want to apply it that way, use a finishing pad.



I'll try doing it your way, which seems to be the way most put the KSG on.



I'm not convinced that we need all the different types/varieties pads for *most* applications but a regular polishing pad and a milder polishing pad is a distinction I'm OK with in this case.

I understand, I believe this would be the red ccs for regular polishing and black for final detail polishing, but I'll have to check to be sure.



In *every* case, get at least one spare pad of each type in addition to the ones you expect to need. No foolin' [stuff] really does happen at the worst possible moment.
Click to expand...



This statement seems to be the same answer most of the really experienced guys recommend, I'll do it.



Changeling :up
 
The last sentence is meant to reflect the number of pads in each category I should get.



Is there anything else that you feel I should consider getting to "Do it right" ?



Changeling
 
Accumulator, now that I am sitting here looking at a gallon of 05938, it hit's me that it is going to be a pain in the tush to put a small squirt of it on a polishing pad from a "gallon" jug as I progress in the polishing!



What do you do? It says to shake thoroughly before using.

I was thinking of using a bottle like you see in a restaurant for "Ketchup", the kind you just squeeze! Then after using what I want/need after the polishing, to just put the remainder back in the gallon jug, does this sound like a "Plan" or is your technique better/different/whatever?

Changeling
 
Get the smaller bottle. If it seals up well (there are good plastic bottles available...maybe check out Danase) you can just keep the polish in there all the time. Pouring in and out will end up wasting product as a fair bit will stick in the smaller bottle (and probably go bad, requiring a cleanout, etc.).



Yeah, find a good bottle and use that. The place where you got the 05937 might have one, pros almost always buy in bulk and transfer to a squeeze-bottle.



EDIT: hey, check out http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/82832-polish-bottle.html



My approach won't help you- I pour it into an old 32 oz. bottle of 05937 I have left over.



When you polish- DO NOT use too much product! DO NOT work it until it's completely dry. If you use too much and/or work it too long it might be a pain to buff off. If you use just enough (think of it as keeping the pad lubricated), clean the pads from time to time so they don't load up, and stop polishing before the stuff is completely dry, you should do fine. Don't be afraid to go over any trouble spots numerous times (it's the price you pay for not using a more aggressive approach).
 
The 3M will do the job... but thats like saying that every car actually drives



-Its a pain to take off

-It contains oils which will make bonding an issue

-Tons of Dust

-Will turn trim white





Sorry Accumulator but the 3M just does not stand a chance against the newer and more advance products out there it is a dinosaur........ and I dont think I am alone in this case.



But good luck.
 
FidoAUTO said:
The 3M will do the job... but thats like saying that every car actually drives



-Its a pain to take off

-It contains oils which will make bonding an issue

-Tons of Dust

-Will turn trim white





Sorry Accumulator but the 3M just does not stand a chance against the newer and more advance products out there it is a dinosaur........ and I dont think I am alone in this case.



But good luck.
Click to expand...



Well, we'll see how it works for Changeling (as I implied in the one post, I'll make it up to him if he dislikes it). I have Menzerna, BF/Menzerna, Optimum, and numerous others here to compare it with, so I didn't make the choice without considering plenty of options. We all have our favorites and our also-rans and I'm still a big fan of the Machine Glaze.



Never had any isues with oils/bonding, never had anything "come back" after using AIO after it.



I've never let it dry on trim and it's never stained trim when I've wiped it off promptly. But OK, it's a good idea to keep most polishes off trim- good point. I never have to tape trim when using 05937 with a PC/Cyclo/hand; it seems easy enough to keep it off places where you don't want it.



I'll be looking forward to Changeling's report on how it works out for him.
 
Accumulator said:
Well, we'll see how it works for Changeling (as I implied in the one post, I'll make it up to him if he dislikes it). I have Menzerna, BF/Menzerna, Optimum, and numerous others here to compare it with, so I didn't make the choice without considering plenty of options. We all have our favorites and our also-rans and I'm still a big fan of the Machine Glaze.



Never had any issues with oils/bonding, never had anything "come back" after using AIO after it.



I've never let it dry on trim and it's never stained trim when I've wiped it off promptly. But OK, it's a good idea to keep most polishes off trim- good point. I never have to tape trim when using 05937 with a PC/Cyclo/hand; it seems easy enough to keep it off places where you don't want it.



I'll be looking forward to Changeling's report on how it works out for him.
Click to expand...



Accumulator, stay cool ! Doesn't it strike you odd that some dude who frequents this forum a lot more than even I do and followed this posting ( going for quite a while now) has waited till I purchased the product 05937/38 to post negative comments! :heelclick

I contacted 3M by phone before I committed to the product and your advise, I was told flat out that the product was in his opinion the "best" I could consider, but it's cost of manufacture had priced it out of the market ! :wow:

We/I am committed with a direction you have designed for me from extensive "EXPERIENCE" in this field "detailing". I would follow experience in any type of endeavor before jumping on an unproven bandwagon for the sake of following the "Crowd", this is not the way I work in all areas of my life.

I am completely satisfied with my affiliation with you and consider your advise the best obtainable! Others may not think this way, that is there prerogative, especially with a forum background of August 2006, LOL :nono



Accumulator, as for making anything up to me, I "DO NOT" consider excellent advise from an individual experienced as you are lightly!! You tried to be a gentleman to this dude in your reply but I am not that dam nice by any stretch of the imagination

and will not put up with attacks of BULL.

I've jumped off my pedestal and calmed down now, reality has been spoken, my karma is glowing !!:cooleek:

Thanks Accumulator for the link on the bottles, I'll check them out. I had some more questions , but I had better cool off a little more before I ask!

Take care, and thanks. Changeling :cool:
 
Changeling- That's interesting, what 3M said about the PI-III MG. I figured it was VOC-regs compliance issues that brought about its discontinuance.



Oh, and I do want to repeat that I don't have a monopoly on good advice and I have been wrong before. So if the 05937/38 doesn't work well for you, I do want to know about it as I'd hate to leave somebody stuck with a gallon of something that they purchased in part because of my specific recommendation.



I think we've covered all the major caveats that go with the product, but post back with any Qs. With the PC, I'd start polishing with this stuff at speed 5 and see how it goes. I generally use speed 6 (there's no actual speed 5.5 on either of my PCs even though the dial stops in that position) but some find the vibration objectionable. The 05937/38 breaks down OK at the lower speed and it's so mild that IMO using 6 probably doesn't make all that big a difference in this case. When working by hand just keep working it until it's nearly dry. FWIW I usually do my hand work with a MF but there's sure nothing wrong with using a foam pad (and many like it better). Buff off the still-not-quite-dry with a high-quality plush MF.



Do a section where you can clearly evaluate your work (and have good lighting so you don't have any surprises later) and see how it goes. I wouldn't do the whole vehicle with *any* product/approach until you have an idea of how it's working out for you, so let the first panel be a test case. I'd proably steer you towards doing the trunklid first if I were there looking over your shoulder.
 
Not that it really matters, but the 3M twins (PIII RC and MG) are still two of my favorite polishes, and I've used a bunch and have a couple I haven't even had a chance (or need) to try yet. I think you'll (Changeling) find MG to be pretty user friendly. Not everything in the 3M line is stellar, but those two are pretty hard to beat.



BTW, this is a public forum and you did ask for advice, so I wouldn't be so quick to condemn a member just for expressing their views on the subject...... after all, it's only wax and polish we're talking about here. I also wouldn't make the mistake of equating the knowledge a member has with their post count or the date they joined. You don't have to agree with every post, but life is too short to get bent out of shape because someone has had a different experience with a product or product line.
 
No trunk lid on a Tacoma. I will do the driver side front quarter. This is the worst and if it responds well the rest of the truck will be a breeze (I hope).

I still have a few things to get like the pads and some MF towels (big) for buffing off the residue from the polish/Klasse AIO&SG. I want to have everything I can possibly need before I start. Once I start a project I hate to stop!



Question: On the rear fenders of my truck there are these Big decals that say "TRD OFF ROAD" I don't know if they clear coat over these decals or not, so I don't know if I can polish offer them, do you have any idea?

Also, I should I tape off the black trim with some kind of tape before I polish, use the AIO, or SG?

Thanks, Changeling



PS. I probably won't tackle this project till spring when things warm up (Because of health) and I am sure I have everything including all the instructions I need. So, in a way you will be looking over my shoulder, because I am doing it the experienced way, your way. Before I forget, that gallon may not be to much after all! Some of the local guys have already heard what I intend to do, and starting to drop by to discuss doing it on there vehicles.
 
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