wasted money. rant
- Thread starter Barry Theal
- Start date
salty
Active member
I totally agree Barry. We are being charged for water.
Glass cleaner is the biggest rip off. Usually 95% water and most still don't clean well, eg Windex.
Having problems with windows? Try this simple solution. Water wet a MF and wring it out. Lightly mist the cloth with a degreaser or ONR and scrub the window. Remove with a lint free MF or paper towel (Bounty). Rub until water is gone. Also a lot safer than breathing in chemicals.
My dilution rates of degreaser are 4:1 engine, 25:1 interior-carpet spotting.
Carpet pretreat 40:1, extractor 120:1.
Glass cleaner is the biggest rip off. Usually 95% water and most still don't clean well, eg Windex.
Having problems with windows? Try this simple solution. Water wet a MF and wring it out. Lightly mist the cloth with a degreaser or ONR and scrub the window. Remove with a lint free MF or paper towel (Bounty). Rub until water is gone. Also a lot safer than breathing in chemicals.
My dilution rates of degreaser are 4:1 engine, 25:1 interior-carpet spotting.
Carpet pretreat 40:1, extractor 120:1.
Barry Theal
New member
as i wrote this im not trying to confuse people, because im on who will buy nicer chemicals as needed. i can't use chemicals with fillers for polishing, but we as a consumer haver to draw a fine line and i would love to show the tricks of using certain chemicals in other ways. I was on detailers domain page here is http://www.detailersdomain.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=02
Product Details
P21S Total Auto Wash All Purpose Degreaser
1000ml
P21S Auto Wash gets the dirt and grime out of rocker panels, engines, and other hard to reach places. This formula is great for removing diesel soot and other tough stains that ordinary car wash products just can't seem to cut.
P21S detergent formula, plus the addition of a powerful citrus solvent add up to unmatched cleaning power.
Helpful hints on engine cleaning:
Engine washing Dust and water splashes build up over time, but do not damage the engine. The time for engine washing is after the winter, when water and road salt have splashed up and left a white deposit.
The best place to clean the engine is at a commercial self-service car wash; this ensures that cleaning chemicals and (for older cars) rinsed-off oil do not get into groundwater. Aggressive products such as acid-containing cold cleaners should not be used to loosen dirt, however, since they can attack electrical equipment and plastics. Water-soluble engine cleaners are more suitable.
How to Clean your Engine
1. Spray the degreaser evenly onto cool, dry surfaces and let stand for three minutes.
2. Carefully remove oil, soot and other deposits using a Swissvax Detail Brush (if you use any other brush, make sure the brush head has no sharp metal edges), reapplying degreaser cleaner occasionally.
3. Spray with plenty of clean water to rinse.
4. Dry the engine with compressed air (if available) or old towels.
5. Dress with your favorite dressing, Swissvax Pneu, Einszett Rubber /Vinyl Care, Adam's VRT
now everything is right off there page. now your paying 17.95 plus tax and shipping for a bottle of citrus based degreaser? lol now this is a spray bottle full. now you figure when its all said and done your looking at $25.00 for a total sale. now someone recomended purprle power which is availble for 13.00 at you local advance auto parts for 2.5 gallons. now lhere is how learning how to do this first off your ganna have to dilute this stuff 50/50 right off the start beacuse of how strong it can be. so now you have 5 gallons for $13.00 dollars. thats less then $3 dollars a gallon. now once you break it down 50/50 again which will make a 4 to 1 bottle for tires and door jambs. and 10 to one for interior use like carpets vinyl and other stuff. now you eliminated a lot of chemicals. in your arsenal, and i can be certain that your cost will be cheaper.
im not trying to bash on detailers domain there were just an example company with that x product. im just trying to show you guys how to save on some cash and not fall into some marketing hype. now this is just my 2 cents.
Product Details
P21S Total Auto Wash All Purpose Degreaser
1000ml
P21S Auto Wash gets the dirt and grime out of rocker panels, engines, and other hard to reach places. This formula is great for removing diesel soot and other tough stains that ordinary car wash products just can't seem to cut.
P21S detergent formula, plus the addition of a powerful citrus solvent add up to unmatched cleaning power.
Helpful hints on engine cleaning:
Engine washing Dust and water splashes build up over time, but do not damage the engine. The time for engine washing is after the winter, when water and road salt have splashed up and left a white deposit.
The best place to clean the engine is at a commercial self-service car wash; this ensures that cleaning chemicals and (for older cars) rinsed-off oil do not get into groundwater. Aggressive products such as acid-containing cold cleaners should not be used to loosen dirt, however, since they can attack electrical equipment and plastics. Water-soluble engine cleaners are more suitable.
How to Clean your Engine
1. Spray the degreaser evenly onto cool, dry surfaces and let stand for three minutes.
2. Carefully remove oil, soot and other deposits using a Swissvax Detail Brush (if you use any other brush, make sure the brush head has no sharp metal edges), reapplying degreaser cleaner occasionally.
3. Spray with plenty of clean water to rinse.
4. Dry the engine with compressed air (if available) or old towels.
5. Dress with your favorite dressing, Swissvax Pneu, Einszett Rubber /Vinyl Care, Adam's VRT
now everything is right off there page. now your paying 17.95 plus tax and shipping for a bottle of citrus based degreaser? lol now this is a spray bottle full. now you figure when its all said and done your looking at $25.00 for a total sale. now someone recomended purprle power which is availble for 13.00 at you local advance auto parts for 2.5 gallons. now lhere is how learning how to do this first off your ganna have to dilute this stuff 50/50 right off the start beacuse of how strong it can be. so now you have 5 gallons for $13.00 dollars. thats less then $3 dollars a gallon. now once you break it down 50/50 again which will make a 4 to 1 bottle for tires and door jambs. and 10 to one for interior use like carpets vinyl and other stuff. now you eliminated a lot of chemicals. in your arsenal, and i can be certain that your cost will be cheaper.
im not trying to bash on detailers domain there were just an example company with that x product. im just trying to show you guys how to save on some cash and not fall into some marketing hype. now this is just my 2 cents.
WhiffySpark
New member
Simple green will cloud clear coat.
I don't disagree with you
It really depends on what you're trying to clean, too.
I don't disagree with you
It really depends on what you're trying to clean, too.
215Detailing
New member
Thanks Barry Good Post, I to use products by ARDEX and AGAuto if you go to warehouse on ByBerry Rd ask for shawn he may be able to help with answers as well and his online name is ArdexShawn I believe aol
I completely agree with you!Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
salty said:
Wait...you mean I can just go back to cleaning my windows with Bounty like I did before I found Autopia and not have to look at that annoying microfiber lint? I can do that?
SuperBee364
New member
mmarmarou said:
I have to admit, I've been moving that way. I use ONR for just about everything on my car now. If it won't come off with ONR, I'll use something with some more chops to it, but that doesn't happen very often on my well-maintained cars. Client cars, yeah, but I'm still surprised at how well ONR will clean at different dilutions. And the fact that it leaves very little resiude and NO SHINE behind (on things like dashes) are huge pluses.
I'm one of those "I gotta try everything" guys, and I do like to post my own experiences with the products I buy and test, but my intent has never been "you gotta have 50 different APC's to clean your dash", and I apologize if I've ever been taken that way. I just get excited about detailing and trying a new product is like crack to me.
But I do agree with Barry. The list of products you really need to perform a professional level detail on your car is very short, and can be really inexpensive, too.
CocheseUGA
New member
This is an awesome thread, guys. Especially for us novices who don't want to spend a ton from thirty different online stores to find what we need.
I like Meg's APC, but I'm going to give that Purple Power a try. Especially as I can get it locally and not pay for shipping. I think the APC will always have a place in my bin, but I may make room for this.
Especially if it works well on wheel wells. Definitely a better buy than stuff from CG or Megs.
I like Meg's APC, but I'm going to give that Purple Power a try. Especially as I can get it locally and not pay for shipping. I think the APC will always have a place in my bin, but I may make room for this.
Especially if it works well on wheel wells. Definitely a better buy than stuff from CG or Megs.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
SuperBee364 said:
You know sometimes we get wrapped around the axle on this forum because we have members who range from people who flit in here because they have a problem or a new car and never come back, to hobbyists/enthusiasts to weekend warriors to pros.
The hobbyists/enthusiasts are likely to try/buy many more products than they need to and be more into product nuances...but what's wrong with that? They have different needs/expectations than the others. I can think of a few members who buy every "secret sauce" marketing hype from certain vendors/mfrs and some of us remember the big rebottling scandal from a few years ago where one of the boutique products that was "painstakingly developed" turned out to be some bulk stuff with the "development" being the fragrance and the label art.
Bottom line, different strokes for different folks. If for some people trying new and different products all the time in little bottles is part of the enjoyment, fine, while for some people who are getting the job done, a 55 gal. drum is more appropriate, fine. In the same way that a pro photog is going to use a different camera than someone taking a few snaps of their grandkids, or a garage is going to put your car on a lift to rotate the tires while you at home use a floor jack.
SuperBee364
New member
Well said, Setec. Good stuff.
imported_Jakerooni
New member
Well I've been saying most of this since I first joined up. probably one of the reasons I get hated on alot LOL. But the most important thing anyone on here can do is know your products. If you know your products truely you'll save a buttload of cash. And I'll even go so far as to break a few things down for you guys.
The absoulte best cleaners out there are Citrus. All natural and extreamly effective. very little side effects. Unless for some oddball reason I just can't find it all my APC's are citrus based.
The bug cleaner that "Instanly" dissovles bugs.... Is just a diluted down version of the orange coolant Dexcool. It was found by accident by students in automotive school awhile ago and it got marketed very well. ALL of them are some variation of that forumula. So If you want to save some cash and can't afford the stoners, Meg's, etc etc etc versions of the marked up little bottles or cans try it out. 10:1 dilutions
Filler products add gloss. They get slammed alot on here for being a cheap way to correct (or look like a correction) But they can have a very valid purpose to a LSP as long as you've already properly corrected the surface the fillers once broke down will add a great amount of gloss to the top of the surface. (besides all products have fillers to some extent anyways... Pretty sure that's already been proven)
$30 wax and $3000 wax last roughly the same amount of time
Glass cleaner seriously has a 1000 different uses... Try out a few.
And never underestimate the power of an air compressor and a goo air gun...
I'm sure I can add a lot more later... But I'm about to run out the door.
The absoulte best cleaners out there are Citrus. All natural and extreamly effective. very little side effects. Unless for some oddball reason I just can't find it all my APC's are citrus based.
The bug cleaner that "Instanly" dissovles bugs.... Is just a diluted down version of the orange coolant Dexcool. It was found by accident by students in automotive school awhile ago and it got marketed very well. ALL of them are some variation of that forumula. So If you want to save some cash and can't afford the stoners, Meg's, etc etc etc versions of the marked up little bottles or cans try it out. 10:1 dilutions
Filler products add gloss. They get slammed alot on here for being a cheap way to correct (or look like a correction) But they can have a very valid purpose to a LSP as long as you've already properly corrected the surface the fillers once broke down will add a great amount of gloss to the top of the surface. (besides all products have fillers to some extent anyways... Pretty sure that's already been proven)
$30 wax and $3000 wax last roughly the same amount of time
Glass cleaner seriously has a 1000 different uses... Try out a few.
And never underestimate the power of an air compressor and a goo air gun...
I'm sure I can add a lot more later... But I'm about to run out the door.
This is an excellent thread and comes at a great time as most are trying
to stretch that dollar. I have lots of various products for different tasks,
but it's becoming clutter. Like many, i got caught up in the hype...
We should have another thread showing folks how to save money by buying
multitasking products that work. And why it works.
Isopropyl alcohol, for example, has many uses. Excellent on glass and cheap.
OK, gonna get get some citrus based cleaners... Thanks!
Good read:
Oxygen, Citrus, Soy: Bio-based Cleaning Products
Citrus: A Non-Toxic Household Cleaning Alternative
to stretch that dollar. I have lots of various products for different tasks,
but it's becoming clutter. Like many, i got caught up in the hype...
We should have another thread showing folks how to save money by buying
multitasking products that work. And why it works.
Isopropyl alcohol, for example, has many uses. Excellent on glass and cheap.
OK, gonna get get some citrus based cleaners... Thanks!
Good read:
Oxygen, Citrus, Soy: Bio-based Cleaning Products
Citrus: A Non-Toxic Household Cleaning Alternative
Accumulator
Well-known member
I go from one side of this to the other...I've used certain APCs for nearly everything (with various dilutions) and I also enjoy using specific (and sometimes boutique) products for certain jobs. Those don't always do a better job, but I simply *like* them better. I bet I'd do differently if I were doing this to turn a profit or otherwise being more cost-conscious, but I'll admit that if I simply *like* using some stuff then I don't mind paying for it.
Don't anybody take this as an :argue but I'm curious about using APCs for tires. I've used a *scad* of different products on tires over the years, I bet I've tried dozens. But *nothing* works as well for me as Griot's Rubber Cleaner or, for tricky ones that have odd issues, Griot's Rubber Prep. Even other companies' rubber cleaners don't work as well. I'm not crazy about spending that kind of money on tires, but my APCs/wheel cleaners/degreasers either don't get them truly clean or else leave them dried out/gray looking; they just don't turn out rich and black looking. On tires I don't dress this is a serious problem, and even on ones I do dress I don't think it's a good sign.
So what are people using to clean tires? Something that leaves them looking like brand-new rubber...
Another one I simply have to spend on is Glass Cleaner. A few work like miracles but 99% of them just don't work as well for me. And I've tried all the home-brew routes too...some of those work well enough for the windows on my house, but not for autoglass. Somebody once said that Griot's Glass Cleaner is nothing but IPA, but a side-by-side test gave very different results :nixweiss Newspapers used to work well before they changed both autoglass and the paper/ink...messy though. MFs with just water? Not even close to acceptable.
Again, I don't want this to come across wrong. This is an area where I don't mind spending money if it makes the job (chore, actually..
) of detailing more enjoyable for me. For me it's not a business, or a hobby, it's just something that I need to do and making it more enjoyable is worth some bucks to me. But I can certainly understand people *not* wanting to spend unnecessary money too.
Heh heh, a good analogy might be using Hoppes #9 and ClenzOil just because I like how they smell, even though I could do the same job cheaper with something else. Now if they didn't work well, that'd be different...
Don't anybody take this as an :argue but I'm curious about using APCs for tires. I've used a *scad* of different products on tires over the years, I bet I've tried dozens. But *nothing* works as well for me as Griot's Rubber Cleaner or, for tricky ones that have odd issues, Griot's Rubber Prep. Even other companies' rubber cleaners don't work as well. I'm not crazy about spending that kind of money on tires, but my APCs/wheel cleaners/degreasers either don't get them truly clean or else leave them dried out/gray looking; they just don't turn out rich and black looking. On tires I don't dress this is a serious problem, and even on ones I do dress I don't think it's a good sign.
So what are people using to clean tires? Something that leaves them looking like brand-new rubber...
Another one I simply have to spend on is Glass Cleaner. A few work like miracles but 99% of them just don't work as well for me. And I've tried all the home-brew routes too...some of those work well enough for the windows on my house, but not for autoglass. Somebody once said that Griot's Glass Cleaner is nothing but IPA, but a side-by-side test gave very different results :nixweiss Newspapers used to work well before they changed both autoglass and the paper/ink...messy though. MFs with just water? Not even close to acceptable.
Again, I don't want this to come across wrong. This is an area where I don't mind spending money if it makes the job (chore, actually..
) of detailing more enjoyable for me. For me it's not a business, or a hobby, it's just something that I need to do and making it more enjoyable is worth some bucks to me. But I can certainly understand people *not* wanting to spend unnecessary money too.Heh heh, a good analogy might be using Hoppes #9 and ClenzOil just because I like how they smell, even though I could do the same job cheaper with something else. Now if they didn't work well, that'd be different...
MarcHarris
New member
good thread, and with some folks i've gotten PMs from about advice for products (dont know why they're PMing me!) i tell them the same thing. If you're going to work lots of exotic / picky owners, then MAYBE i can justify it. outside of that......
Buy a 32oz bottle of ONR. dilution for clay lube is 2 oz per gallon. Your 16 dollar purchase of ONR just net you 16 GALLONS of clay lube.
Hyper dressing. Sure it's a little pricey - but now you have something for engine bays, wheel wells, tires, and trim.
APC/degreasers: already covered.
high priced waxes are luxury items. Not needed or necessary.
As long as someone understands this - if they want to buy specialty items, so be it. Just don't get mad at those that save twice as much money as you...
Buy a 32oz bottle of ONR. dilution for clay lube is 2 oz per gallon. Your 16 dollar purchase of ONR just net you 16 GALLONS of clay lube.
Hyper dressing. Sure it's a little pricey - but now you have something for engine bays, wheel wells, tires, and trim.
APC/degreasers: already covered.
high priced waxes are luxury items. Not needed or necessary.
As long as someone understands this - if they want to buy specialty items, so be it. Just don't get mad at those that save twice as much money as you...
dave40co
New member
plouffy said:
Will the citrus based degreaser remove dressings?
citizen arcane
New member
On topic: Am I the only one here who cleans their tires and wheels w/ car wash solution? I use the leftover solution from my last wash, wheels first and a few minutes of scrubbing per tire w/ a stiff brush - they're clean and I don't strip the dressing.
Polished&Waxed
New member
I want to get zep's citrus cleaner for a stong degreaser. Any one used this?
This is a good thread for sure. What about the other side of the coin. What are the boutiques that are necessary, waxes, dressings?
This is a good thread for sure. What about the other side of the coin. What are the boutiques that are necessary, waxes, dressings?