VX-5000 still a preferred steamer?

Stokdgs said:
I have read in the past that Simple Green can harm some metals by ruining the finish on them..
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And not just the finish either...there's a reason why Simple Green makes a special version for Aviation/aluminum applications (or at least I was told that they did at one time). I don't hate Simple Green any more than WD40, but I don't use either on any of my vehicles as there's always something I believe to be better for that sort of thing.

bennylava said:
Hmm... if I'm getting the feel for this right, it looks to me like most of you guys don't really use a steamer on the engine. Is that fair to say?
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I dunno if I'd go that far; ask a different group of people on a different day and it might seem like *everybody* uses a steamer for that. I have, I will...but I don't have to (re)do engine compartments much and I never need to use a steamer (again) when I do. They *can* be nice for this as they can really emulsify certain stuff and they don't leave all that much moisture behind (at least not if you use 'em right).

Steamers are handy. HOW handy/handy enough to justify the price, IMHO everybody has to decide for himself.
 
bennylava said:
Hmm... if I'm getting the feel for this right, it looks to me like most of you guys don't really use a steamer on the engine. Is that fair to say?
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I just recently got my first steamer, and I intend to use it on engines, but I will say that it doesn't break up heavy grease as fast as I thought it would. When I did my engine compartment, I got quite a ways with the BF AIO Trim/Tire. However, there are lots of tight corners, corrugated materials, etc. that you can't easily wipe out. Those are areas where I think the steamer would be a great asset. Those are also areas where I use the aerosol dressings so that I don't have a pool of heavier liquid dressing.
 
Alright well I pretty much have the question answered to my satisfaction. Thanks all

But how about the interior? I bet that's a whole different ball game. All of you probably use one on the interior. But if you have a steamer, do you still need a Tornador?
 
bennlava- I might be some kind of outlier on this topic, but I don't use my steamers all that much on interiors (but I do like steaming pedals). And despite being happy with mine, I was really happy to get a Tornador Black for Christmas :D

kesmit- Welcome to Autopia! I bet a lot of people find that their steamers don't do stuff like that as quickly/easily as they'd expected.
 
Accumulator said:
bennlava- I might be some kind of outlier on this topic, but I don't use my steamers all that much on interiors (but I do like steaming pedals). And despite being happy with mine, I was really happy to get a Tornador Black for Christmas :D

kesmit- Welcome to Autopia! I bet a lot of people find that their steamers don't do stuff like that as quickly/easily as they'd expected.
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Thanks! I have to say that after getting my steamer I was a little disappointed. The first detailing project I took on was some greasy door jambs and hinges in a 16 year old farm truck. I figured I'd learn a lot about the machine doing that, and I did. I will say that it did a great job, but it took forever. It seems to me that steamers are great at getting into tight spots and crevices, but I don't think I'll be throwing away all of my interior cleaning products just yet.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but as far as the Tornador goes, that one still puzzles me. I've watched plenty of videos, but it always just looks like it makes a big wet mess on the interior. I don't have a compressor at the moment, so it couldn't use one right now anyway, but the love for these things does make me wonder.
 
kesmit- I gotta play around with the Tornador before I say much about it...but I plan to hook it up to the extractor when I use it in the interior and when it comes to that sort of work I'll probably just use it on floormats *out* of the car (we run the OE carpet mats in my wife's A8 even in the winter, believe it or not).

And "yeah.." on the steamers not working miracles. Even my good one (and it seems like a little extra performance goes a *LONG* way) just doesn't do stuff that I'd expected, or at least not fast enough for me. Back in the day I had a huge propane-powered industrial steamer and I guess it's spoiled me for life; that would've done that farm truck in the blink of an eye (did worse stuff that that really quick).

I think it's sorta like how people say you can clean stuff with MFs using just plain water...sure doesn't work that way for me.

And I oughta give you my standard "everybody needs a compressor!" lecture but I'll give it a rest for once ;)
 
Well maybe people are using steamers for bigger stuff than they're actually good for. A power washer would probably be first, followed by the steamer to get things that the power washer just couldn't. Maybe use the power washer to knock all the big crap off, and follow up with the steamer for the greasy film that is left over.

I wouldn't expect a steamer to really work miracles, I'm personally just thinking of using one for spots. Like if there is a stain on the interior. And for the engine, same thing. Knock all the big junk off with the power washer, follow up with a spot check with the steamer. To me, it looks like all a steamer really does, is take a significant portion of the scrubbing out of the picture. After watching all manner of youtube videos, it looks to me like if you own a decent steamer, you'll only scrub a little bit, instead of a lot. On those stains and bad spots. Both on the engine, and on the interior.
 
bennykava- But when using a steamer on stubborn spots, you gotta resist the temptation to get (even just a little) too aggressive lest you have an "oops!". I was utterly astounded when I trashed a spot of carpet with mine; thought I was being careful, never thought it'd happen..but it did. At least it was *my* vehicle and not one of the good ones.

Beware all YouTube demonstrations. All of 'em ;)
 
65chevy said:
bennylava what brand of steamer are you using?
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Currently I don't have one. I was going to buy one after I talked to some people. I asked over at the garage journal, and they told me to come here.

And accumulator: How exactly did you over use the steamer? Just hold it in one spot for too long?
 
bennylava- Ah, OK..now I follow.

My honest, BEST advice regarding steamers (I've had a few) is to buy one of two ways:
1) cheap enough to be thought of as disposable, handy for light-duty work. "Better than nothing" kind of thing
2) genuinely powerful enough to make nasty/tough jobs go a whole lot better

In other words, I'd avoid the oh-so-common middle ground. Hey, that's just me. And if you do spend the big bucks, buy something that you can get serviced (realistically..shipping? local?) if the need arises.

With the cheapie ones, be careful such units don't fail in a way that'll injure you. I had a little hand-held model split open in a way that scalded me but good even though I was wearing the protective gloves that most people wouldn't have bothered with. Now how to actually "be careful..." well, I dunno but have some respect as it's one of those tools that can hurt you.

And yeah, I was too close, for too long, and I melted some carpet. Cheap Mazda carpet. I've also melted plastics but that was a case of knowing/accepting the risk and just doing it to see how it'd go.
 
Alright accumulator thanks for the input.

Having said that though, which expensive steamer would you actually recommend? Which one would live up to your quote of "Genuinely powerful enough to make nasty/tough jobs a whole lot easier"? Which steamer can make that claim? I would like a specific recommendation. I'll probably just spend the extra money, and get it. Cause I really am looking to take a lot of work out of all my detailing.
 
bennylava said:
Well maybe people are using steamers for bigger stuff than they're actually good for. A power washer would probably be first, followed by the steamer to get things that the power washer just couldn't. Maybe use the power washer to knock all the big crap off, and follow up with the steamer for the greasy film that is left over.

I wouldn't expect a steamer to really work miracles, I'm personally just thinking of using one for spots. Like if there is a stain on the interior. And for the engine, same thing. Knock all the big junk off with the power washer, follow up with a spot check with the steamer. To me, it looks like all a steamer really does, is take a significant portion of the scrubbing out of the picture. After watching all manner of youtube videos, it looks to me like if you own a decent steamer, you'll only scrub a little bit, instead of a lot. On those stains and bad spots. Both on the engine, and on the interior.
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In my post way up there - #19, I outlined what works in my Shop all day, every day, and I have never used my VX5000 for anything under the hood...

The chemical I talked about and the 2gpm pressure washer with a wide fan tip totally removes everything out of an engine compartment, the engine itself, the underhood, and all the little areas in front of the inner fenders, radiator, in front of it, the grill areas, etc...

Unless you have a humongous Steamer - putting out say over 200psi, doing engines with my 100psi VX5000 is going to take a really long time and the longest attachment will not get down there deep to work on the bottom of the frame area under the engine, etc., like a good pressure washer will do for you AND a pressure washer can be outfitted with a longer wand to get really everything way down there, and even in the front and rear fenderwells...

The pressure washer will remove everything the first time and there will be no need for a Steamer under there to remove any "greasy stuff leftover, etc.."..

All the engines and compartments I do using this process are perfectly clean, you can see everything that before might have been covered in grease and dirt, etc., and all my Clients and their mechanics love it, because they can now spot any potential trouble spots that they couldn't see before because it was dirty down there...

They all get a brand new engine and compartment that you could eat on if you wanted to.. :)
Good luck,
Dan F
 
bennylava said:
..Having said that though, which expensive steamer would you actually recommend? Which one would live up to your quote of "Genuinely powerful enough to make nasty/tough jobs a whole lot easier"? Which steamer can make that claim? I would like a specific recommendation. I'll probably just spend the extra money, and get it. Cause I really am looking to take a lot of work out of all my detailing.
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DO NOT go by just my take on this as I'm not a Pro and what works for one guy won't for another. I'd rather go with the recommendation of somebody like Stokdgs, for instance.

But, that said...I have a Daimer 1500C and I wouldn't want anything less powerful than that. I actually wish I'd spent even more for increased performance. But I will say that their customer service is good.

As previously pointed out, it seems like a lot of these steamers are made in Italy and that the same units are sold under different names with different specs. AFAIK, "Steambox mini" is what mine is called, generically speaking.

Sorry I'm not being of more help here, but I don't want to steer you wrong and my *big* lesson has been that "more power than you'll ever need" is not enough.

And yeah, I'd much rather buy a pressure washer if I had to choose between the two (utterly different) devices. I use my pressure washer every time but I hardly ever use my steamer. But for the umteenth time... that's just me :D
 
What got me started on loving steam, was when I was a detail boy at the Ford house. I was only 18 so this was about 14 years ago. They had this extractor for carpets and seats that was one of those push cart types, and it seemed amazing to me at the time. It would make even greasy carpets in diesel trucks look pretty good again. Even seemed to fluff the carpets back up a good deal. I asked how much it was, and the boss said that if he remembered right it was about $2500. That thing sold me on steam cleaning. It made those carpets and seats look so good. Many of them went from looking like they might need to be replaced, to looking nearly new again. No idea what brand the thing was.

But obviously, an extractor wouldn't work on an engine, unless it was some kind of two-in-one deal that also came with a wand. And I've talked to some mechanic friends of mine, who said that the only thing they've ever seen just melt the grease and dirt off of an engine and make it look new again, was a steam cleaner. And you see these engines that look nearly new, in older cars, and people will say its been steam cleaned. If my experience with the extractor was any indicator, I'd have to say that its probably true. Then you have the youtube videos that do show them working pretty well. So to me, thus far, the evidence did point to them doing a pretty good job.

But here is what I take away from this thread. In order for steam cleaning to actually work great, you need to have a very powerful steamer. Generally, the ones being mentioned are about $3,500 and up. Is that about right?

So basically, those ones like the VX5000, really just aren't all that great for engine cleaning? What do you guys use such steamers for? Some of you have said that you do have them. Just general spot cleaning on the interior?
 
bennylava- I'm getting confused here...your experiences with an *extractor* (I have a "cart type", namely a Ninja by Century) seem to be influencing your opinions regarding *steamers*. There are 1) extractors, 2) steamers, 3) combination extractor-steamers, with the latter being somewhat uncommon.

Plus people say "steam cleaned" when that's not what was *really* done. The whole "carpet steamer" thing is, IMO, mostly people talking about *extracting* with no actual steam involved. Take a peek inside the truck when a carpet cleaning company is doing a house, or take a close look at what's coming out of their machine's wand ;)

My beaters were utterly *FILTHY* under the hoods when I got them, looked like they'd been spraypainted black. I got them back to near-showroom and IIRC the steamer wasn't a significant factor in how I did the work. I probably wouldn't need to say "IIRC" if the steamer had been a big help. Yeah, they do emulsify greasy messes very well, and they can be good for those jobs, but that's sure not the only way to do that kind of work.

When I do want to steam stuff, by Daimer 1500C is generally powerful enough, and I only qualify that with "generally" because I've used genuine industrial steamers that are IMO in that "don't try this at home, kids!" category where you could do some serious damage just working through the learning curve (you simply don't need one of those for detailing work IMO).

I'm all for overkill equipment, but I think you're getting into a false dichotomy of "either off the deep end or nothing at all".
 
Quote - So basically, those ones like the VX5000, really just aren't all that great for engine cleaning? What do you guys use such steamers for? Some of you have said that you do have them. Just general spot cleaning on the interior?

Last Time --

1. For heavy duty Engine Cleaning, the VX5000 does not have enough psi, a long wand and a longer hose, to be as effective as a 2gpm Pressure Washer with a really long hose and wand, in my experiences..

2. The VX5000 is better utilized for cleaning the Interior, cloth seats, headliners, that really tight space between the seat and the console, really nasty cupholders with gunk stuck to the bottom of them, the inside of a/c vents, any little place that has dirt in it that cannot be removed with a brush, the front door jamb hinges, under seats, etc...

3. Through a towel, the VX5000 can be used with a good APC sprayed on before, to get all the gunk, body oils out of seatbelts, off of cloth/fabric seats, carpeted floor mats, carpeted floors, etc...

4. The Steamers you saw, were industrial sized units, and they were way more powerful than the VX5000, ok ???

I remember them also, and the guys would even put the car on the lift and steam clean underneath the engine compartment from there too..
Yes, everything was really clean, but then they had to deal with all the blobs of grease all over the wash rack floor too...

And, if you went too crazy with it, you had better get out the grease gun hose and re-grease all the fittings underneath the car, especially the Idler Arm, and Upper and Lower Balljoints..

5. The same or better results can be had with a good gas-powered or electric pressure washer, and Meguiars Super Degreaser, for engine, engine compartment, under the hood, etc., areas of any domestic vehicle, in my experiences..

Dan F
 
Accumulator said:
Plus people say "steam cleaned" when that's not what was *really* done. The whole "carpet steamer" thing is, IMO, mostly people talking about *extracting* with no actual steam involved. Take a peek inside the truck when a carpet cleaning company is doing a house, or take a close look at what's coming out of their machine's wand ;)


I'm all for overkill equipment, but I think you're getting into a false dichotomy of "either off the deep end or nothing at all".
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To clear this up, the extractor I was using had such hot steam that would come out, that it would burn you. You had to keep your hand away from, and off of the extractor head or you'd be sorry. Now I guess there was some small amount of water also coming out, as it was a vacuum unit. It would blow out the steam and water from one part of the handheld piece (which you would drag along the carpet) and the hose was of course directly behind that, sucking everything up. There was even some kind of liquid that they would put in there, after about every 5 vehicles. I didn't really handle that part. It was the same color of that meguires stuff that yall keep talking about, sort of a light, opaque orange color. I guess in this thing may not have been a true "steamer", but what you saw was mostly steam. And the steam would burn the pizz out of you, so who knows maybe it was a "steamer".

And stokdogs, I will try your method before buying a steamer. I have a pressure washer that is 2.2 gpm, and I'll get some of that meguires engine degreaser. If I'm understanding you right, and everyone else, that stuff probably works a lot better than I think it does. I've power washed many engines without it, and the results were pretty unsatisfactory. Sure, the power washer would knock off all the chunks. And even some of the clinging dirt. But if there was any oil or dirt mixed with oil or grease, that was all staying. You'd be there all day trying to get that stuff off with a pressure washer. But I've never used the meguires, maybe that's the key.

And what you just said about the extremely powerful steamers:

"I remember them also, and the guys would even put the car on the lift and steam clean underneath the engine compartment from there too..
Yes, everything was really clean, but then they had to deal with all the blobs of grease all over the wash rack floor too..."

I don't mind cleaning up the shop floor, and "really clean" is what I'm looking for. Maybe the difference is the areas we live in. I live in a smaller town, which is right between the vast rural areas, and the Dallas/Fort worth metroplex. The people from the rural areas ALWAYS look the engine over thoroughly, looking for any signs of a leak (or other problem). When they see an engine that is super clean and looks like its been garage kept by an old lady that only drove it to church on sunday, they love it. That kind of thing can really sell a car. A dirty engine or a mediocre engine usually gets a "eh..." and at that very point, the price they want to pay drops. That's why I'm so obsessed with getting the engine sparkling clean.
 
Bennylava -

I am also wanting the engine, compartment, underhood, every nook and cranny perfectly clean..

The VX5000 just cant do this as easily, quickly or completely..

Certainly, the big Industrial Steamers can do this, but I don't have one and have no intention of ever getting one.. :)

Again, I get beautiful, clean, shiny where it is supposed to be shiny, engines and compartments, and no oily, sticky, residue, etc.. on the clean surfaces..

Meguiars D108 Super Degreaser has worked very well for over a decade now, and I like to use it at a 6:1 ( 6 parts water, 1 part D108)

If you have a long handle soft bristle brush, it will work well to get some of that hard to remove greasy, oily stuff that gets under the hood all around the front hood closer mechanism, after you spray it with the D108..

Try to have the engine as cool as possible, and certainly never spray cold water on a hot engine... The steamer works ok on a hot engine because the steam is over 100 degrees anyway...

I just wet the engine with the pressure washer, knocking off stuff quickly with just the water, then go back and spray it all down with D108, let it dwell for awhile, and come back and rinse it all off...

It will be amazing how much gunk comes off of dirty engines onto the floor, driveway, etc...

Then I like to get the Master Blaster out and blow as much air as I can all over especially on the underhood insulation, leave the hood up as much as possible, to aid in all the water draining down and off, and to wash the rest of the car, first with the pressure washer to get a lot of little hard to reach place gunk out, and then come back and wash it by hand with a good soap...

Good luck !
Dan F
 
bennylava- Ah,OK...thanks for explaining about the unit you'd used. NOW I understand!

Unless you're gonna spend that kind of money (and I don't even know where you'd find that sort of equipment), I'd just buy the VX-5000 or maybe something from Daimer.

I just used my 1500C on the Tahoe's interior, and it's plenty potent for that (gotta turn it down for a lot of the work).

And you gotta watch using steamers on the undercarriage/etc. as they can really mess with the factory rustproofing if you don't 1) know exactly what you're doing on that specific vehicle and 2) avoid having an "oops!". I do use them for stuff like that but oh, man! can I see somebody (who's smart/sensible/etc.) having it go haywire (hopefully not in a big way, but still...).

And *!OH YEAH!* to having the engne compartment/undercarriage clean enough to 1) spot problems right away and 2) be pleasant to work on.
 
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