Vertical surface polishing with what?

[Changeling]

What is the easiest tool to use when polishing the vertical surfaces (sides) of a vehicle with compounds through final polishing products? How much is tool weight a factor in this overall experience?



I would think the rotary would beat out the orbitals like a PC or Cyclo but I don't know. I am sure "Weight" is an important aspect of this equation, but so is speed of completion. I guess one part of this equation is the fatigue factor, but how do you apply it in comparing the PC vs Cyclo vs rotary?



Changeling

 

[Accumulator]

While everyone has their own preferences, I find the Cyclo to be the most user-friendly machine no matter what the application.



But yeah, the speed of the rotary means you spend less time doing stuff. The weight of the machine and their ergonomics *will* factor in and different peole will feel differently about this so it's hard to generalize. Weight? No way I'd want to use a Milwaukee rotary on the sides of something and I'm used to handling fairly heavy objects.



I switch from the rotary to the Cyclo ASAP, but I know there are people who stick with the rotary.

 

[Invigor]

but I know there are people who stick with the rotary.

That's me!



All I can say is suck it up princess and get used to a rotary. The weight of the makita doesn't bother me anymore, but took quite a few cars before I could do a full session without resting. I can do a 3 step polish on a car now without stopping in between. I work up a good sweat, but it's not SO difficult that I have to stop for a bit.



The only thing I use a d/a for now is 3000grit sandpaper for smoothing my wetsanding marks before I polish it...and cleaning my stove top!

 

[Accumulator]

All I can say is suck it up princess and get used to a rotary...

I'm *certain* that the above was not directed at me personally



Heh heh, I never had to set the Milwaukee down, but that doesn't mean it was fun like the Cyclo is. The Makita and the Metabo are nice and light, but that isn't the only consideration.

 

[Changeling]

That's me!



All I can say is suck it up princess and get used to a rotary. The weight of the makita doesn't bother me anymore, but took quite a few cars before I could do a full session without resting. I can do a 3 step polish on a car now without stopping in between. I work up a good sweat, but it's not SO difficult that I have to stop for a bit.



The only thing I use a d/a for now is 3000grit sandpaper for smoothing my wetsanding marks before I polish it...and cleaning my stove top!

I guess this is aimed at me.!

Well Invigor sucking it up is the problem sorta. I have a repository disease and can't breath worth a dam. My lungs won't metabolize the oxygen you normally suck up and convert it to the fuel that runs your muscles/body as efficiently as normal people. A choir that you would take for granted would make me start gasping for breath. Therefore my original question is very meaningful to me. :waxing:



Changeling

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

Consider getting a Metabo Changeling. You can knock out the job from start to finish in maybe half the time of a PC, and it weighs a bit less than the Makitas, way less than the Milwaukees.



Vertical surfaces just suck in general though - I like to sit on a 5 gallon bucket turned upside down, so that I don't have to crouch.

 

[Invigor]

Ah, I'd say just do a panel at a time and take breaks in between. And since a rotary works faster, maybe it'd become an advantage to you to use. I find them easier on you to use because they're smooth, whereas a PC shakes your arms and hands senseless. I can hardly finish a car with a PC because my hands start to tingle, which is another reason why I prefer to use the rotary.



My comment about sucking it up wasn't aimed at anyone. Sorry if it came off that way. I love my rotary and have a hard time considering using anything else...just the ease of use is so addicting.

 

[ZoranC]

Check this thread started by me



http://autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/79077-any-thoughts-using-vertical-polishers.html



I still haven't started using this tool due to circumstances so I have nothing to report on yet, but in the meantime it will give you food for thought.

 

[Changeling]

Ah, I'd say just do a panel at a time and take breaks in between. And since a rotary works faster, maybe it'd become an advantage to you to use. I find them easier on you to use because they're smooth, whereas a PC shakes your arms and hands senseless. I can hardly finish a car with a PC because my hands start to tingle, which is another reason why I prefer to use the rotary.



My comment about sucking it up wasn't aimed at anyone. Sorry if it came off that way. I love my rotary and have a hard time considering using anything else...just the ease of use is so addicting.

Not a problem, I'm not exactly known for bring suttle at times myself:chuckle:



When everyone speaks honestly I can kind of get a feel on what is going on so I sincerely like the way you explained what you felt.



ZoranC, thanks for the link, I'm going there now.



Accumulator, Ho much heavier is the cyclo vs a PC vs a Metabo, if you happen to know. Someone told me this once before but I forgot to print it out and put it in my manual.



TheMightTimmah (give us a shorter name,LOL) I was thinking about the Metabo but it is so dam expensive when compared to a Makita, do you happen to know the "actual" weight difference?



Good advice from all, thanks, Change

 

[ZoranC]

Accumulator, Ho much heavier is the cyclo vs a PC vs a Metabo, if you happen to know. Someone told me this once before but I forgot to print it out and put it in my manual.



TheMightTimmah (give us a shorter name,LOL) I was thinking about the Metabo but it is so dam expensive when compared to a Makita, do you happen to know the "actual" weight difference?

I haven't weighed them but official weights are, starting with lightest:



Metabo PE12-175: 5.3lbs

PC 7424/7336SP: 5.75lbs

Hitachi SP18VA: 6.2lbs

Cyclo Model 5: 6.5lbs

Makita 9227C: 6.6lbs

 

[Changeling]

I haven't weighed them but official weights are, starting with lightest:



Metabo PE12-175: 5.3lbs

PC 7424/7336SP: 5.75lbs

Hitachi SP18VA: 6.2lbs

Cyclo Model 5: 6.5lbs

Makita 9227C: 6.6lbs

ZoranC thanks for the information. I have been searching the Internet for the last couple of hours for prices and "Weights" on the various machines! Now I remember why I asked the weight question, DON'T BELIEVE Manufactures, get someone to weigh there machines!!

It seems that weights are all over the place, I have Cyclo going from 7.25 lb to 6.5 lbs!

Makita about 6.6 lbs like you have.

Metabo about 5.8 lbs (PE12-175).



I read the link you gave me (long read), and appreciated it. However I think that the tool is a one horse show! Meaning, it "might" be OK on verticals, but a real bear on flat tops/horizontals.

That said, your observation , that it is just not a 1 horse race seems to me to be right on the money!! I can see actually a need for all three (3) of the tools but that can get a little expensive so one has to consider his limitations and make the necessary adjustments to do the best he can with a look to the things that are to come, especially me with a "shot pair of Lungs"!!!

I found prices varying on the Cyclo vs the Metabo of less than $20.00!

With the potential gain in capabilities of the Metabo over the Cyclo I believe I will get the Metabo.

The odd thing is when I first started the polishing quest I let myself be talked out of the Cyclo because of weight. I didn't know anything then and practically speaking not much more now, but eventually spring will get here and we can all jump are cars bones with information gleaned from the pros on AUTOPIA!!

Thanks to all, Changeling

 

[ZoranC]

Now I remember why I asked the weight question, DON'T BELIEVE Manufactures, get someone to weigh there machines!!

Well, one reason of why I didn't weigh them is that I don't trust precision of average household scale. I would need to take them to post office and I really don't find it worth the effort because my train of thinking is more like this "PC sits kinda OK in the hand, and I don't feel it's weight. PE12-175 is on paper lighter but in hand it feels tad heavier. Could be due to how I hold it, but doesn't change the bottom line that difference to PC is not significant enough and it is lighter than majority of rotaries out there. Cyclo is heavier that's for sure but I don't feel that on horizontals and on verticals it is not feeling more unpleasant, could be because less hurt due to less vibrations compensates for added weight."

I read the link you gave me (long read), and appreciated it. However I think that the tool is a one horse show! Meaning, it "might" be OK on verticals, but a real bear on flat tops/horizontals.

Could be. I will see.

I can see actually a need for all three (3) of the tools but that can get a little expensive so one has to consider his limitations and make the necessary adjustments to do the best he can with a look to the things that are to come, especially me with a "shot pair of Lungs"!!!

Of course! If I was in your shoes I would be thinking exactly same way.

I found prices varying on the Cyclo vs the Metabo of less than $20.00! With the potential gain in capabilities of the Metabo over the Cyclo I believe I will get the Metabo.

Good call on Metabo while Cyclo can wait. I had Cyclo from before. Otherwise my path would be different.



BTW, out of curisoity, what's the lowest price you found on Metabo?

 

[3Dog]

The Racatac is my best friend when doing lower panels.

Racatac Products Inc.

 

[Changeling]

Of course! If I was in your shoes I would be thinking exactly same way.





BTW, out of curiosity, what's the lowest price you found on Metabo?[/QUOTE]



The lowest price I found was $232.00 delivered, still looking.



Forgot to mention one reason I am getting the Metabo first is there are a heck of a lot more cyclo's around, so I might be able to catch a used one at a good price at an auction, flea market, etc,. Accumulator tells a story about sending his oldest one back to the factory for rebuild, the factory sent it back saying it didn't need rebuilding!! Hard to argue with that.



Take care, Changeling

 

[Changeling]

Is there there anything the Cyclo can do that the PC can't ?



Lets approach this from the following: The PC is outfitted with a 5 " backing plate with 6.5 inch LC pads (CCS).

The Cyclo is outfitted with 4 inch pads I guess, not sure of it's configuration, need a pro to fill in here.



In normal detailing of vehicles, scratch, webs, oxidation, which machine do you want to be using?

In reading all the answers in my post it seems that the Cyclo really shines as a detailing machine, but it must have some drawbacks in regard to the PC or vice versa. Am I getting this across?

Changeling

 

[ZoranC]

What Cyclo can do that PC can't? Be easier on your body. Part of that can be solved by using smaller than 6.5" pads on PC. Also, (from what I haer, in this case I am not speaking from experience) in some cases it would be better for after-rotary-pass (on paints/coats that PC wouldn't be able to tocuh and you have to whip out rotary).



What PC can do that Cyclo can not? Cyclo doesn't have variable speed. Also, PC can be maneuvered in tighter complex areas that you wouldn't be able to touch with Cyclo (Cyclo is little bit bulky).

 

[Changeling]

What Cyclo can do that PC can't? Be easier on your body. Part of that can be solved by using smaller than 6.5" pads on PC. Also, (from what I hear, in this case I am not speaking from experience) in some cases it would be better for after-rotary-pass (on paints/coats that PC wouldn't be able to touch and you have to whip out rotary).



What PC can do that Cyclo can not? Cyclo doesn't have variable speed. Also, PC can be maneuvered in tighter complex areas that you wouldn't be able to touch with Cyclo (Cyclo is little bit bulky).

Thank you ZoranC, I see what you are saying. Lots of things to consider before I jump

Changeling

 

[Zet]

Be sure to look at the Racatac or some other kind of rolling stool, it will make any machine much less tiring to use on vertical panels.

 

[Changeling]

Zet I built a box to sit on, it's kinda like one of those old movies where you see a shoe shine kid sitting on. The one you have is in a class by itself, very nice.

Changeling

 

[Accumulator]

Is there there anything the Cyclo can do that the PC can't ?



Lets approach this from the following: The PC is outfitted with a 5 " backing plate with 6.5 inch LC pads (CCS).

The Cyclo is outfitted with 4 inch pads I guess, not sure of it's configuration, need a pro to fill in here.



In normal detailing of vehicles, scratch, webs, oxidation, which machine do you want to be using?

In reading all the answers in my post it seems that the Cyclo really shines as a detailing machine, but it must have some drawbacks in regard to the PC or vice versa. Am I getting this across?

Changeling

If you outfit the PC with a 4" pad it will behave more aggressively than the Cyclo will and is thus sometimes the better tool for a tough job. I say this because I never damaged paint with the Cyclo (I've cut through thin paint, but IMO that's different) but I *have* damaged clear with the PC/4". Yeah, I was being goofy-aggressive and maybe I could've done it with the Cyclo too, but that's how I interpreted my experiences with the two.



With the PC/4" I can correct significant marring on the Audis if I'm willing to put in the time (and put up with using the PC, which I don't enjoy). I'll sometimes do this instead of getting out the rotary if I'm doing a spot-repair and don't want to take *any* risk of getting sling on the rest of the vehicle (or even the rest of the panel). Note that somebody with better rotary skills would do better to just use the rotary.



If the marring is mild enough that a PC/6.5" will do the job, then the Cyclo will do it faster and *much* more pleasantly. Only time I reach for the PC/6.5" instead of the Cyclo is if I want a change of pace, or want to get some use out of all those 6.5" pads I have, or have a weird panel-contour situation (e.g., the XJS, which is not a Cylo-friendly car), or want to use Klasse AIO. 99% of the time the Cyclo is the better tool for the job and the fixed speed is only an issue with AIO. But honestly, I've come to the conclusion that anything that can be done by Cyclo can be done by PC- *functionally speaking*/leaving aside user-friendliness issues. But leaving those issues aside is a personal decision.



Oh, and while the Cyclos wear like iron (my older one *did* get some minor work while they had it, but it wasn't anything significant, don't even remember what it cost, and I basically talked them into doing it), my older PC, with *much* less time on it, needed to be rebuilt after a few years and my newer one is making some untoward noises now too. I believe we basically over-stress/abuse the PC with these detailing applications whereas the Cyclo is made for this type of work (and is designed to last in a commercial environment).



Some people have one crescent wrench, others prefer a whole set of open-end wrenches, some people have dozens of different wrenches and use them all; same thing here with the polishers. Those rare occasions where you *gotta* have an long, angled-handle box wrench won't come up too often, so a lot of people do fine with just the one crescent wrench.