Unavoidable Spider Webs!

T

tpsk8er

New member
I've had my car for about 4 months now, but I noticed the "spider web" scratches the day after i bought it. It's been detailed at VW a couple times, and they are still just as noticeable. A lot of people just say ignore them, but i am too obsessive to ignore it and it is pretty obvious on a navy blue car. Since every car on the lot had them, i was told that they are unavoidable, which i'm not desiagreeing with, but i don't think a new car should have them this bad. Since it's been detailed twice, i'm starting to think they won't come out. If they won't, what are some ways to fix this? My other question is, should a car actually get these scratches if taken care of properly? Sorry for the long post. All help is appreciated.



yes, i have searched, and no i do not have pictures yet.
 
First off, stay far away from the dealers detailer! Not all are bad, but if they didn't get it off the first time, it's time to avoid them. :bolt



Now, spiderwebs are pretty easy to deal with. You can either take it to a professional detailer, or someone who does pro-quality work. Or you can take the plunge and do a detail yourself. If you are are interested, here's a start:



http://www.guidetodetailing.com/



on the right side you can download the ebook detailing guide.



The actual process that gets rid of this type of paint defect is polishing.



So what's it gonna be?
 
tpsk8e- Welcome to Autopia!



What Ggtaka said :xyxthumbs



It's not all *that* hard to remove marring like those spiderwebs. Just takes an abrasive process (think of it like sanding a scratch out of a piece of wood).



Not *reintroducing* such marring will be a matter of not abrading the paint while washing/drying. Not easy but absolutely possible. I've kept vehicles basically marring-free for years at a time. IMO most such marks come from washing. Lots of threads on how to wash without marring.



I find a foamgun to be pretty much mandatory for marring-free washes. Searching on foamgun oughta bring up a lot of threads, some of which will be very helpful.



Make sure that the wash/dry media (mitts/brushes/towels/etc.) are soft enough. No way to do this right if the media itself can scratch the paint. Taking that out of the equation leaves factors that're the user's responsibility (i.e., wash/dry technique) and can thus be dealt with. If you start with media that'll scratch you're sunk from the git-go and there's a lot of crappy wash/dry media out there.



It's all about not pressing anything abrasive (such as dirt) into the paint- automotive paint is soft and dirt is generally hard. The trick is to get the dirt off the paint without rubbing it *against* the paint. Fairly simple concept but not that easy to do.
 
When you say polish, does that mean it's just gonna cover it up for a while, or will they go away.



And you said certain products can cause marring, i'm guessing the crap i got at discount auto isn't helping.
 
Polishing cuts down existing paint and smooths out imperfections so that you have a smooth finish. Kind of like sanding down wood to a smooth feel. So yes it permanently gets rid of the swirls.



Take preventive measures to avoid future marring by not taking it through an auto-wash, regularly sealing your paint and developing good washing techniques. Like the two bucket method, using wool mits, or boar hair brushes, a foam gun, microfiber products and even the way you dry your car has an impact. Accumulator is the master of washing methods, and he has developed some unique virtually mar-free techniques. Search posts by him and you'll find some interesting stuff.
 
tpsk8er said:
And you said certain products can cause marring, i'm guessing the crap i got at discount auto isn't helping.
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I like to test my wash/dry media on a CD (the bottom/data side, not the top/label side). Since the surface of a CD is usually a good bit softer than automotive paint, if the mitt/brush/towel/etc. doesn't scratch *it* it shouldn't scratch your paint either. Not a perfect test, but better than none.



Remember to test the way you'll use the media: mitts and brushes used for washing should be tested wet with wash solution (the CD oughta be wet too), "wash" the CD and inspect for marring; to test a drying towel, get the CD wet and dry it off, then inspect for marring.
 
So when you polish to take the marring out, that technically takes the clear coat down doesn't it? So that would make the clear coat thinner, right?
 
gtbaka said:
Now, spiderwebs are pretty easy to deal with. You can either take it to a professional detailer, or someone who does pro-quality work. Or you can take the plunge and do a detail yourself. If you are are interested, here's a start:



http://www.guidetodetailing.com/



on the right side you can download the ebook detailing guide.



The actual process that gets rid of this type of paint defect is polishing.
Click to expand...



Here's a real-life story. I came in here two months ago and didn't know what PC, AIO, LSP, etc. all stood for. :help: I was about to have a detailer come and work on my car, but after reading the above link, for the cost of the detailer, I bought a PC, pads, good products and now my car looks better than new (5 yrs old and I had lots o' spider webs), and with better washing products and techniques I know it won't ever get that bad again.



Now I'm :buffing: :woot2: :hifive: :getdown
 
Yes, when you polish swirls out, you are polishing away the clearcoat (or basecoat on single-stage paints) until the paint surface is at the level of the bottom of the scratches.



My guess is that each time you took it back to have the spiderwebbing removed, they just gave it a once-over with the rotary and wool pad (good ol' geniuses at the dealerships :rolleyes: ), and thus installed new/more spiderwebbing. Stop taking it back to them.
 
SVTContour said:
Here's a real-life story. I came in here two months ago and didn't know what PC, AIO, LSP, etc. all stood for. :help: I was about to have a detailer come and work on my car, but after reading the above link, for the cost of the detailer, I bought a PC, pads, good products and now my car looks better than new (5 yrs old and I had lots o' spider webs), and with better washing products and techniques I know it won't ever get that bad again.



Now I'm :buffing: :woot2: :hifive: :getdown
Click to expand...





:werd:



10char
 
tpsk8er said:
So when you polish to take the marring out, that technically takes the clear coat down doesn't it? So that would make the clear coat thinner, right?
Click to expand...



Just to make sure there's no ambiguity here:



Yes, the abrasive polishing will remove some clear/paint. Yes, you can overdo this and cause problems. No, it's usually *not* a problem.



This thinning shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't take off too much, too often. I've polished some vehicles many, many times over the course of long periods of ownership (I've had my Jag since '85) and it's never been a problem.



The important thing is to keep from instilling new marring all the time; the new marring requires more polishing and if you repeat this cycle often enough you'll eventually take off too much clear. You should be able to get it marring-free (through abrasive polishing) and basically keep it that way (through proper wash/dry techniques and basics like not touching the paint when it's dirty, which would grind in dirt and mar it). Polishing out light marring every year or so shouldn't be a problem, and if you're careful enough when you wash you won't even have to do it that often.
 
White95Max said:
Stop taking it back to them.
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Definately. After going there numerous times, for numerous reasons(not all bad), i have decided that i am much better off coming on forums like these and doing the research myself. Oh yea, i have kind of a dumb question, but i've always wondered. Is it possible to put more clear coat on a new car if the paint is still in perfect condition. Just curious, so don't be too hard on me.
 
Technically possible. However, you must remove all glass, all weatherstripping, trim, basically everything to ensure proper coverage. If you let a painter just spray over, the clear usually creeps over the weatherstripping and the overspray covers every little unwanted area.



Not worth it. Just not be so paranoid. The amount of clear is enough for you - assumed that you'll learn the proper techniques of correction and maintenance.
 
And the added clear would almost cerainly be softer than the factory stuff and you'd open the door to a host of unpleasant possiblilities (dirt/etc. under the clear, botched trim replacement, you name it shops'll do it).



Bence said:
Just not be so paranoid. The amount of clear is enough for you - assumed that you'll learn the proper techniques of correction and maintenance.
Click to expand...



Good advice :xyxthumbs



tpsk8er- We're not flaming ya, your concerns are reasonable and your questions are sensible. But as long as you do things properly, it's simply not gonna be an issue. Learning that "do things properly" bit is where you oughta direct your energies.
 
yea, i understand what you guys are saying and have started to come to my senses when it comes to my cars paint. This is my first car(well second, but first one wasn't even worth washing), if you couldn't already tell. I've decided with my extreme obsession, it would be best that i become good at cleaning my car, and possibly even learn how to detail it. I appreciate all the help you guys have given me.
 
tpsk8er- I think it's great that you're taking such an interest in your car's condition. Hearing that it's your first nice one puts a more sympathetic spin on some of your concerns.



Getting the paint marring free is a hassle, but I'd be most concerned with developing good wash/dry techniques as a) that's what you do most often and b) that's where most of the problems come from.



When you work on the marring, make sure you have *great* illumination, really unforgiving lighting that'll show what's there. Work a small area at a time. You'll soon find out what works well/doesn't, and you'll also see how much time it takes :eek:



Getting set up with things like the proper lighting oughta be the first step. Lots of planning and thought before you start will be beneficial.
 
When it comes to lighting, I've found three basic varieties to be principal:



good flourescents ( can be fixtures in the garage or portable)



a 100W twin halogen stand



200-300W incandescents ( traditional work light with the oversized tin collar)



Other variances include multiple flashlights, some of the xenon variety, and a good old fashioned trouble light with a 75-100W bulb is useful as well.
 
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