ultimate winter protection?

Gears said:
.. Z-2 Pro - lasts a long time but not the best protection for bird bombs or acid rain..
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That's interesting! The KSG that I use instead of Zaino (I figure they're sorta in the same category) works great for protecting against etching from that sort of stuff...I would've expected the Zaino to excel at it too :nixweiss
 
Accumulator said:
I did a few panels on my wife's A8 with 845 just to see if the post-VOC-reg stuff was OK (and yeah, it is). Much to my surprise the beading/slickness of the 845 didn't last as long as that of the older #16 on adjacent panels! I know that there's more to durability than those two characteristics, and I'm not saying that 845 is categorically less durable than #16, and I sure didn't expect that, but that's what happened :nixweiss
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Do you know if that's different from the results you would've had with the old version of 845? Has anyone done a side-by-side old/new 845 test?
 
velobard- I've never done a side-by-side but somebody recently posted that they didn't find any differences between the two versions. I believed him, to the extent that I just reached for the Post-VOC version yesterday instead of going to my storage closet and rooting around for the older stuff.
 
Accumulator said:
ashsarna- Used by itself, AIO (pre or post-VOC) never lasted all that long for me anyhow. I'd consider just buying a can of Collinite 476S. If you've never used it you're in for a treat (IMO) and it's cheap enough that if you don't like it you're not out much.
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Thanks. I will play around with a couple of combos to see which ones give me the look I like:



1) AIO/476

2)Prime/476

3)Prima/476

4)DG 601/105
 
Accumulator said:
velobard- I've never done a side-by-side but somebody recently posted that they didn't find any differences between the two versions. I believed him, to the extent that I just reached for the Post-VOC version yesterday instead of going to my storage closet and rooting around for the older stuff.
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I remember that post. If I remember correctly, that comparision mainly talked about initial appearance. What I had in mind what your observation that 845 quit beading before #16. I wondered if anyone had compared the durability ot the 845's.
 
Accumulator said:
That's interesting! The KSG that I use instead of Zaino (I figure they're sorta in the same category) works great for protecting against etching from that sort of stuff...I would've expected the Zaino to excel at it too :nixweiss
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My personal observations were that Zaino, never used SG, didn't protect as well my normal waxes, 476s, 845 and 16, against acid rain and bird bombs.



The only car in my household that has acid rain etching in the paint is one that was protected from day one with several coats of Z-2 Pro. I always felt this way about the BB

and the lack of Zaino protection and would not have felt confident about posting it but after a few Scottwax posts on the BB issue and sealents its just the way I feel.



I think sealents make a great base but for real protection I'll be topping them with wax.
 
BB etching is dependent on acidity and dwell time.



Since going to Zaino, I now carry an ISP + distilled water in a spray bottle and a mf in my car at all times. My car has been hit several times but I'm cleaning up within an hour. No etching so far. One thing about Z is that it cleans up very easily due to its slickness.
 
jmsc said:
BB etching is dependent on acidity and dwell time..
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Yeah...and the vehicles I've had good luck with KSG on have sometimes had the BBs dwelling on them for a long, long time :nixweiss



Gears- Glad you've found something (namely good old *wax*) that works well for the protection you're after. The only vehciles I leave outside have (Collinite) wax on them too, and they do very well indeed. The minivan with its KSG is garaged, not that *that* helps all that much when I leave the BBs on it for days :o



Velobard- Maybe I'll play around with the two versions of 845 on my latest beater project. I already have one coat of the new 845 on it, but I'll start layering the old stuff on half a panel and the new stuff on the other half and I'll keep an eye on 'em.



ashsarna- With all those good products you're bound to find something that really works for you.
 
I put Collinite 845 on two panels and # 16 on two panels of my daily driver about 6 weeks ago. To me there was no comparison for the ease of application/removal with the Collinite the hands down winner for that consideration. When it came to "beading" durability I felt the #16 was definitely ahead in that regard.

I don't think you could go wrong choosing either product. I haven't thoroughly decided which way I will go this winter. It may be decided on how much time and energy I have on the weekend that I choose to winterize the unit. It is outside 24/7 and I like to give it a good going over before winter.
 
Accumulator and Gears,

agree with you on Klasse and carnauba. I have had bb sit the whole day on my black car and had no problems removing them (prepped with AIO as a base, topped with some sealant and/or a good carnauba). Now if Collonite has the legs that would be the ticket for my winter combo.
 
Blake said:
I put Collinite 845 on two panels and # 16 on two panels of my daily driver about 6 weeks ago. To me there was no comparison for the ease of application/removal with the Collinite the hands down winner for that consideration. When it came to "beading" durability I felt the #16 was definitely ahead in that regard.

I don't think you could go wrong choosing either product. I haven't thoroughly decided which way I will go this winter. It may be decided on how much time and energy I have on the weekend that I choose to winterize the unit. It is outside 24/7 and I like to give it a good going over before winter.
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That's very interesting. I've always thought that Collinite protected better than the 16, while the 16 provided a better looking shine... How many layers of Collinite did you apply? I have two cars, and I put 1 layer on one car, and 2 layers on my other car. The 1 layer showed decreased water beading ability within a month or so. The double-layered car (van, actually) is still beading extremely nicely (around 2 months so far). I was amazed that the difference of durability between 1 and 2 layers was so big.
 
:nixweiss Here is a interesting thought....wouldn't carnauba stay more solid during winter cold months...making for a harder shell...



People spit shine wax with ice water to make it harden up ...



Now people say that the heat evaporates wax or keeps it in a semi hardened state..



So in reality cold winter weather would keep wax in its hardest state making it a good barrier over any type sealant..being the sacrificial layer ..preserving the sealant layer below...



So any good type caranuba such as #16..collinite..maybe gold class..should hold up longer during the colder months and add to the durability of it also...



I used Klasse twins last winter with collinite 915 put on during NOV..and it was going good in May...during the winter I just used the wand wash with just rinse water..and truck came nice and clean and beaded nicely...



So what do you think...the colder the wax stays the harder it gets and protects better???...making a good layer over sealant for winter...and adds to the durabilty of the winter coat...??



AL
 
AL-53, your reasoning certainly does seem to make some sense. In the summer, when the temperature is hot, people talking about the possibly of carnauba waxes melting on the paint surface. Although I haven't seen it myself, I would believe that the carnauba will certainly not be as hard when the temperature is warm, therefore causing wax to come off easily when it rains, when it's washed, etc...



However, in the winter, with the road salts and dirt, I would assume that the durability would then decrease somewhat, but maybe the hardness of the carnauba still makes the durability longer than that in the summer...



Can any carnauba pro confirm this hypothesis?
 
I do not think the salt will really hurt the wax..Collinites claim to fame is their wax sets up a barrier to salt spray..



Alot of the boats at the marina use collinite..and where it is in cooler water..it seems to last the summer for them...and the saltwater does not seem to effect the wax that much...



here is a little info I found





Why Is Carnauba Used In Car Wax?



Being a natural plant by-product, that will not react with any paint, Carnauba provides a very hard film over your car's surface to protect against airborne contaminants such as acid rain residue, catalytic converter emissions, bug tar, road grime, salt and bird droppings. Carnauba swells and closes its pores when exposed to water. Carnauba also dramatically reduces paint oxidation by diffusing (refracting) UV and infrared radiation from the sun which can oxidize and dull your paint finish.



Note: Pure Carnauba in its natural state is harder than concrete.



Developed especially to seal and shield against acid rain, sun, salt spray, bugs and other environmental acids for marine and aeronautical finishes....







Any thoughts on this..cold weather may make wax last longer and protect better....



Al
 
Actually my Collinite panels were on top of Collinite. I cleaned the panels tested with #16 with Megs Hand Polish before application so that I was getting pure #16.

My only complaint with #16 is that it is much more difficult to work with than the Collinite.
 
IMO the whole "carnauba melting point" thing isn't as simple as some might think- once the wax cures it doesn't just "melt" all that easily. ScottWax uses Souveran on black cars in Texas, no problems in the summer.



But yeah, cold weather is almost certainly easier on such products than hot weather.



Recent durability observation with 476S- one coat applied in March over Autoglym SRP, vehicle left outside 24/7 and run through touchless washes as needed (hey, it was a service loaner). First month had that "Collinite beading" effect. After two months it still beaded well but not quite the same, it had lost that special effect. By the third month was still OK but not what I like to see, at that point I rewaxed it prior to returning it to the shop. So IMO it pays to layer this stuff; I get much better durability out of several layers than I got out of just the one.



And much as I like to defend #16's ease-of-use, I gotta admit it's not as easy as 845 (especially on/off by machine).
 
Accumulator said:
I get much better durability out of several layers than I got out of just the one..
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Yes..I believe 2-3 coats during winter over a sealant will povide your better protection...I did 3 layers of 915 last winter over klasse and it did fine...yes the beading did taper off from original placement..but it still beaded...and washed clean during times I could wash it without freezeing...



This year I will try Aquawax monthly to see how that works out..I still may put collinite 915 over the DG 105 this winter...We salt very heavy here...plus our parking area is like a salt mine..they put it on a inch thick.. federal goverment spares no expense..lol...



Al
 
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