Uaw workers walk out of negotiations

After telling myself I was going to stay out of this discussion as my father also told me to not discuss religion or politics including union business- here goes. I'm one of those lazy no good union guys (Teamster since 1973 and shop steward for over 100 linehaul drivers) that have ruined the trucking business with my excessive greed and demands.I work for a sister company of the largest LTL company in the US. Due to the wisdom of our corporate president that over leveraged everthing but the kitchen sink to purchase the second largest logistics and trucking company in China as well as a couple of regional carriers just before the latest ecnomic downturn, us greedy rank and file members have taken a 15% paycut plus a halt in pension payments for 18 months and deferment of additional payments till we are back on our feet.We saw this as the only chance we had to save the company as well as our own jobs and pension. To set an example and show his gratitude our leader did away with our annual family ride along week ,birthday gift, Christmas ham before taking delivery of his new PANOZ car and starting his new summer home out east. So sometimes there is more to any story then just the headlines in a local paper. Put yourself in others shoes and think can you take a cut from $29hr to $15hr plus an increase of health care payments ? At $15 hr x 40 = $600.00 per week before taxes and insurance plus union dues. With all the entitelment programs being offered to the jobless (food stamps,rental or mortage assitance,99 weeks unemployment,child day care etc) maybe some would choose this over a paycut. We all know of someone sitting on their duff living off the public dole.Years ago compensation for ceo's was at about 30 times what his hourly workers made on average .Nowadays this is closer to 300 times. So who is the greedy culprit ? Sometime a person has to decide on their own what their limit is for givebacks and be willing to live with their choice.
I've rambled on here enough and please excuse my poor grammer and spelling. I only have a tenth grade education and a army GED.
And as a last footnote : I've never had a poor man hire me for a job. Must be something about that tricke down thing , ya think ? :bigups :bigups
 
I just don't know when to shut up. LOL. Was thinking about the $600.00 figure vs. the unemployment issue. $600.00 minus federal,state,city,county,fica and insurance but not counting gas and travel expenses to and from work would be about $400.00 give or take a little. Now Indiana unemployment goes close to $315.00 to $325.00 plus being able to get food stamps etc .According to NPR radio , a person has to earn about about $45,000. to equal all of the government freebies that we now offer. I can see where some people could easily fall into the trap of letting uncle sugar take care of them while they kick back.Just a thought to ponder from an old man.
 
Paul, good reply. I don't get involved much in these type of discussions also because of hassles that it can cause and friends that you can lose!!!

But I don't think anyone will bash you for what you did or your schooling or your spelling BECAUSE you are not coming across as an arrogant know it all who is always bashing something because you think you are the only "correct" person in the group.

Besides, you know how to talk to people not at people!!!

Yep, you were union, so was I at one time then I became 1st level management and I saw the corporate greed at both ends of the spectrum especially at the top. I remember when the economy was going down under the 2nd Bush era and the President of my company made a big deal on how he had to give up one of his summer homes!!!! Heck I only have one home yet he had multiple. I have been unemployed for quite a while, made good money now can't find anyone local who wants to hire a 55 yr old for even minimum wage here, yet some will call me a lazy liberal---hope they never get downsized. Its always easy when the shoe is on the other foot!!!

This is a good group of people on here, some get out of whack with their "patriotic" beliefs ( meaning that anything foreign is junk) yet they are typing on a PC that is made overseas and don't realize that a good percentage of their vehicle parts are made overseas or subbed out to foreign makers but are assembled here in the good ole USA. You can't talk to people who have those type of blinders on. You will never change them. Just keep a good attitude and keep posting!!

Sorry for the rant, but I just had to say my piece.

PS
I also have a pet peeve for spelling and I know that people use spell check but you still have to be smart enough on correct usage!!!!!! Once again that is they way I was brought up!!!!!
 
Paul S, People all over this country are seeing pay cuts and cutbacks in benefits as companies scramble to remain viable. Sometimes the pain isn't shared across the board, and that ain't fair but hey life ain't always fair. If you feel strongly enough about it, quit. That's your perogative. Go find something better. Nothing better out there, then best get happy with what you've got.

And I don't know anyone living off public assistance and I've been around long enough to know a fair number of folks.

Paul S said:
...And as a last footnote : I've never had a poor man hire me for a job. Must be something about that tricke down thing , ya think ? :bigups :bigups
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I can tell you that I've never had a rich man offer me a job, and I can't think of anyone who has. According to employment figures the segment we are relying on for new jobs is from the small business sector. I know a few people who own small businesses, they aren't exactly rich though their companies seem to do well. So I've never seen any concrete evidence of trickle down working in a measurable way. It is pretty clear from my perspective, we don't need the government doling out money (it ain't theirs to give) to big business or the wealthy in hopes that it gets circulated back into the economy. Let's let everyone pay their fair share, keep the keep our government spending at a sustainable level to meet our needs while eliminating the excesses.
 
Grisby, one thing I've learned over the years it's pretty hard to lose friends, true friends. My best friend of over 50 years have disagreed, often strongly, over politics and a number of other issues.

I feel for you and the seeming discrimination over age, and I'll tell you it starts even before 55. You would think that potential employers would jump at the opportunity to receive the benefits of your experiences at bargain basement prices. I've scratched my head countless times trying to figure that one out. Self-employment, temp work, and contract work have been my answer. Sometimes harder work, but a payday is a nice thing. Good luck to you as you continue your quest! :bigups

I am biased, and I won't deny it. There are some things I just can't (or won't) read on the internet because of poor spelling/grammar. I don't use a spell checker program, rather rely on the old Webster's/Merriam-Webster dictionary. Yeah, I'll probably (not prolly ;)) let a few slip by my on occasion, and shame on me when I do.
 
JaredPointer said:
Everyone wants to complain about the rich folks until they become one.
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It is tougher and tougher to join those ranks. What was once considered rich now considered "you'll be lucky to get by on that". A million ain't what it used to be (not that I claim to have one). ;) That assessment is based on a recent segment on retirement savings. Eye opening (no make that popping) to say the least.
 
Well said Mr Clean about what you read and don't read on the internet--I am the same way and bad spelling just turns me off. I don't rely on spell check either (take to for example - to too two and they are all correct but I think an adult should know how to use them in a sentence) and I like my dictionary too!!

Yep I am biased also and I understand about the friends. I guess I meant "internet" friends, those you don't really know but you kind of just click to(if you know what I mean).

Yep, been doing a lot of odd and end jobs, selling stuff at car shows, doing tile and masonry work (did that before I became a desk jockey). Have to agree with you when it come to politics and religion, my best friend and I have been going at it over 40 yrs now but that is what makes the world go round.

Nice talking to you, take it easy!!





Mr. Clean said:
Grisby, one thing I've learned over the years it's pretty hard to lose friends, true friends. My best friend of over 50 years have disagreed, often strongly, over politics and a number of other issues.

I feel for you and the seeming discrimination over age, and I'll tell you it starts even before 55. You would think that potential employers would jump at the opportunity to receive the benefits of your experiences at bargain basement prices. I've scratched my head countless times trying to figure that one out. Self-employment, temp work, and contract work have been my answer. Sometimes harder work, but a payday is a nice thing. Good luck to you as you continue your quest! :bigups

I am biased, and I won't deny it. There are some things I just can't (or won't) read on the internet because of poor spelling/grammar. I don't use a spell checker program, rather rely on the old Webster's/Merriam-Webster dictionary. Yeah, I'll probably (not prolly ;)) let a few slip by my on occasion, and shame on me when I do.
Click to expand...
 
well coming from an auto worker family -

the typical GM auto worker salary was 28 an hour, in 2007 that got cut, through concessions to 15 an hour for new hires and 14.50 after that..well under they pay rate for non union employees at "other" automakers.

the job bank program people were referencing was cut in 2008..

The UAW has granted concession after concession to keep the peace..blaming the UAW for GM Ford and Chrysler is idiotic. GM was already selling it's cars for an average of 2500 less than a foreign auto makers. It's not the UAW's fault all three concentrated on pickups, big suvs and cars that were not fuel friendly so when gas prices rose sky high 2003-2008 people were not buying what the big three were selling. Then 2008 hits and the credit crisis makes is impossible for people to get loans to by any cars or truck and those that can are fighting high fuel costs and not buying Big Three. They all concentrated on trucks and suvs because they had a higher profit margin. Their passenger cars were far behind in technology than foreign auto makers and people perceived us cars as crap (Ford being the exception with the European based focus and fusion winning awards).
 
With the way LLC's or other small subchapter business are set up nowadays to have 15 or so employees and a small amount of inventory or equipment you can fit into the rich category without actually having a large income. I have been offered jobs over the years (I'm a young 61) from various business owners ( these are the people that the government is considering to be rich) but stuck with what I enjoyed and that would also provide a good standard of living for my family .I am not happy where I presently work but retirement that I have put in over 30 yrs for is only 12 months away. If I was a young man under these conditions I would grab my hat and look elsewhere.
As for living off the public dole , talk to anyone that does public assistance work and you will be shocked, I was. Food stamps and unemployment are just the tip of the iceburg being over run.
What I consider trickle down is like when a stock broker maybe hits a good streak and buys a large boat. The boat builder with the new order can now buy that Harley down at the shop. The salesman that wasn't doing too well til then now can take the wife on that weekend getaway.But if the stock broker got busted with a larger capital gains and paid taxes at a larger progressive rate that was put on the evil rich then there goes the down stroke on the boat , the harley will have to wait etc , etc.
Addressing a fair share view , across the board would require doing away with the income tax and replacing it with a consumption tax which will not likely happen in my lifetime. This way everyone pays their share on everything from a piece of bubble gum to the hope diamond. This is fair across the board for the multi-millionare down to the drug dealer on the corner and everyone in between, legal or not. If you buy something -you pay.

Dad was right. Lets stick to detailing :D :D
As for the grammer and spelling, I put the two kids thru college and their not around to check it for me and for spell check the wife laughs at me when I ask for help. Go figure. :)
 
Just a quick note about the GM offer at the stamping plant. The offer of $15.00 per hr is the full rate. New hires will start at about $10.00hr and be at full rate in 24 months. ouch!! This from a friend that is taking the retirement from that GM plant.
 
JaredPointer said:
Everyone wants to complain about the rich folks until they become one.
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I'm glad that I fall under the rich category - Married to the same old gal since 1969,two grown kids,four grandkids,good health and a forum full of members to share a great hobby. Thats all the kind of rich I need .It dosen't get any better then this does it ? :bigups
 
Paul S said:
...
Addressing a fair share view , across the board would require doing away with the income tax and replacing it with a consumption tax which will not likely happen in my lifetime. This way everyone pays their share on everything from a piece of bubble gum to the hope diamond. This is fair across the board for the multi-millionare down to the drug dealer on the corner and everyone in between, legal or not. If you buy something -you pay.
...
Click to expand...
That gets some conversation, and while it sounds very interesting and even plausible, I have never heard/read a plan that spell out enough specifics for me to jump on board and say, yeah this is the way to go. I am listening though.

Paul S said:
I'm glad that I fall under the rich category - Married to the same old gal since 1969,two grown kids,four grandkids,good health and a forum full of members to share a great hobby. Thats all the kind of rich I need .It dosen't get any better then this does it ? :bigups
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You know, that is a great perspective! There is certainly more than one way to measure wealth and determine what is important in our lives. It's no secret I like country music and it's songs like this

YouTube - Craig Morgan - This Ain't Nothin'

that make me a proud fan.
 
Mr. Clean said:
That gets some conversation, and while it sounds very interesting and even plausible, I have never heard/read a plan that spell out enough specifics for me to jump on board and say, yeah this is the way to go. I am listening though.

Check out the fair tax book co-written by Neal Bortz (talk show host out of Atlanta Ga.)and the web site Fairtax.org. :bigups
Click to expand...
 
Paul S said:
I'm glad that I fall under the rich category - Married to the same old gal since 1969,two grown kids,four grandkids,good health and a forum full of members to share a great hobby. Thats all the kind of rich I need .It dosen't get any better then this does it ? :bigups
Click to expand...

No. It sure doesn't. :bigups
 
I have no qualms with people walking but it seems silly to quit and walk without a job in hand. Take the lower wage and either wait for better times or take the lower wage and look for a better job in parallel then quit.

I find it interesting how many quitters there are in they quit as if they are protesting as if it means something. The quitters will not be missed as much by the management team for long despite taking many years of experience with them. Yes, they have regrets but it is just another problem for another day.
 
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