Typical polymer discussion... Need some info

ExplorerXLT95 said:
Somehow we've gotten onto the discussion of "Teflon" use.



Anybody have any experience?? Is it good/bad for the paint??



Please advise.
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Just leave that forum :rolleyes:



Search for teflon here or google it and you'll find a tonne of information that discusses the very high temperature's required apply teflon.



Teflon in detailing products amounts to a snake oil.



It's a marketing strategy for the everyday Joe who thinks the non Stick properities of teflon are the bees knees. Seeing teflon on one bottle and not the other might just cause the everyday Joe to buy. As far as a formulation, it does absolutely nothing.



Paco
 
paco said:
Just leave that forum :rolleyes:



Search for teflon here or google it and you'll find a tonne of information that discusses the very high temperature's required apply teflon.



Teflon in detailing products amounts to a snake oil.



It's a marketing strategy for the everyday Joe who thinks the non Stick properities of teflon are the bees knees. Seeing teflon on one bottle and not the other might just cause the everyday Joe to buy. As far as a formulation, it does absolutely nothing.
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paco - Thankfully, the site that I'm quoting from is not a detail site and the person with whom I'm debating is quite unknowledgeable.



I'm doing my best to correct detailing misinformation everywhere I see it!!! :xyxthumbs



I did a quick search on here and came up with NUMEROUS examples, including a quote directly from DuPont regarding "car waxes that contain Teflon". :D



On a side note, I did finally get him to admit, based on overwhelming evidence, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a polymer sealant that does not contain silicone on any late model OEM paint. :xyxthumbs



Changing the detailing world, one person at a time :nixweiss :D :xyxthumbs
 
ExplorerXLT95 said:
I did finally get him to admit, based on overwhelming evidence, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a polymer sealant that does not contain silicone on any late model OEM paint...
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If you're a real glutton for punishment you can try to explain why "silicones" aren't some awful bete noire either ;) But it sounds like you have a full plate already.
 
Accumulator said:
If you're a real glutton for punishment you can try to explain why "silicones" aren't some awful bete noire either ;) But it sounds like you have a full plate already.
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Lol, it took almost 40 posts of evidence and facts to prove to him that there's nothing wrong with polymer sealants.



I'll just leave it at that. I'm exhausted :D
 
TOGWT said:
Quote: Re-spray finishes are not water based ...EOQ



I thought (perhaps wrongly) that due to the 1999 VOC regulations (an erlier iteration than the latest CA regs) oil-based paints were no longer used/allowed

JonM
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They're still allowed. VOC levels were slightly restricted. The OEM factory applied pain had their VOC levels substantially reduced. You might be mixing the two up a bit.
 
I haven't read much in the way of details on OEM finishes but I presume they can use exotic water based formulations because there are things you can do in a factory (like baking an empty body shell at very high temps or having an army of manufacturing engineers continuously monitoring the line and adjusting parameters) that just can't be done in a local shop.



Current re-pray formulations do have lower VOC content than previous paints but I'm sure the chemistry isn't there yet to reduce down anywhere near OEM levels.



Here in the LA/OC/SB/R... area (South Coast Air Quality Management District) high volatile paints like lacquers are banned from commercial use in body shops and cannot be sold in the area at all. Home use and small volume commercial use of some lacquers are still permitted. In the old days the lacquer thinner tanker truck could pull up to a body shop and offload hundreds of gallons at a time.



opass said:
I applied the 1st wax on the 11th weeks after the repaint (Glausit). Do you think I pass the cure period? Thanks for taking time to educate me. :)
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I'm sure 11 wks was plenty of time. Your patience does you credit.



I think it's cool you went with Glasurit. I've always gotten the impression that even though Dupont and PPG do make fine products most shops use them "because they're there" and don't have a clue what else is available. Every Glasurit paint job I've ever seen has looked great.





PC.
 
Quote:...Current re-pray formulations do have lower VOC content than previous paints but I'm sure the chemistry isn't there yet to reduce down anywhere near OEM levels.

the other pc- thanks for the info
 
Since the EPA happened to use the our states values as a model, here you go with the VOC content limits for vehicle refinishing. Units are lbs VOC per gallon, as applied.



Pretreatment 6.5

Precoat 5.5

Primer Surfacer 4.8

Primer Sealer 4.6

Topcoat 5.0

Multi-Stage Coating System 5.2

Specialty Coating 7.0



Like I said, it's reduced from an unlimited value, but only slightly. It's nowhere near the low levels required for new vehicle coatings, which are:



Prime Coat 1.2

Primer Surfacer 2.8

Topcoat 2.8

Final Repair 4.8



Economies of scale, production line sized operations, and the ability to work with a bare shell are the reasons for the different standards.



If you'd like to read a report on the background of the federal VOC standards and how they were arrived at, you would find this of interest. http://www.epa.gov/ttn/oarpg/t1/reports/fautobid.pdf



Individual states and agencies like SCAQMD can enact more stringent measures if their governing laws allow it. Though in researching California APCD and AQMD statutes, I do not find a specific prohibition on lacquers to exist. Just standard VOC limitations on coatings as applied.
 
Accumulator said:
If you're a real glutton for punishment you can try to explain why "silicones" aren't some awful bete noire either ;) But it sounds like you have a full plate already.
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If you want to give him some facts on silicone and there use in car care products (as opposed to the usual myths used in negative marketing)



Silicone Facts



JonM
 
Two things.

1. Yes, there are body shops who do have the technology to and do use water based paint methods. I just my fender repainted and they used a water based system very, very similar to oem methods.



2. Back to the part about polymers, TOGWT-you said that a polymer sealant is the best type of protection around. What about acrylic sealants, like Klasse?
 
maxedmax said:
Two things.

1. Yes, there are body shops who do have the technology to and do use water based paint methods. I just my fender repainted and they used a water based system very, very similar to oem methods.



2. Back to the part about polymers, TOGWT-you said that a polymer sealant is the best type of protection around. What about acrylic sealants, like Klasse?
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Not like me to give a 'lazy' answer like that, I meant to say 'sealant' and omit the polymer, oophs!



So to reiterate a sealant will provide the most durable protection.

JonM
 
maxedmax said:
-you said that a polymer sealant is the best type of protection around. What about acrylic sealants, like Klasse?
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Same thing. Technically, acrylics are chemically a subset of the larger group known as polymers. In marketing and advertising, the two words are used interchangably.
 
foxtrapper said:
Same thing. Technically, acrylics are chemically a subset of the larger group known as polymers. In marketing and advertising, the two words are used interchangably.
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We are plagued by imprecise JARGONISM! I really wish there was a uniform way manufacturers described and defined the function of their offerings to us. The market would grow faster if people in the general public knew what truly they were using and how to use it properly. I see cars all the time with waxed oxidation being driven by guys who look at properly detailed vehicles with envy and some obvious confusion... everyday. What if they were told what the problem was by consistent correct advertizing instead of partial truth combined with product hype and confusing product indentification/information?



This is more about general detailing products than specific to polymers. The problem extends throughout the car care industry, which is why there is confusion about polymers. All polymers are more or less compatable by definition arent they? Klass SG and Z2Pro can "peacefully coexist" on the same vehicle.... If they cannot please show me otherwise.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Does Telfon ring a bell. ;)
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Was that for my post, LOL.... I didnt even think of Teflon in the same class as products for MY car.... LOL !:xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs

I should have said all automotive Polymers.... you know, things that bond under temperatures that we weld or solder with...;)
 
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