William_Wallace
New member
I don’t prefoam but I do soak a vehicle in APC or degreaser then blast car with pressure washer or hose to knock dirt off. Depending on how motivated I am to drag out my pressure washer.
Two questions from a detailing newb
- Thread starter bennylava
- Start date
bennylava
New member
Well I`m in Texas and I`m kind of hesitant to run the heater off natural gas. I think I`m just going to do a giant propane tank instead. Natural gas was the reason we had a power outage for 3 days. Seems like we`re liable to run out of gas again at some point, so from now on I`m just going to rely on having power on hand.
Propane vs Gas kinda sounds like it makes no difference, but I like to mention these things just in case it does. It never fails someone always knows something I didn`t
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Propane is fine, when I said "if you`ve got natural gas at this location" I almost added something about propane. Usually gas (propane or natural) is considered a more efficient way to heat, of course going forward I guess a lot of this stuff may be going electric, so maybe your original plan is just as valid.
bennylava
New member
I believe you`re right about gas being more efficient than electric for heat. Heating up a building with electric will drain the batteries in no time. I believe faster than anything else. I`m probably going to run it all off of solar if possible, except for the heat. I did the math and the batteries would last something like 7 hours running the heaters in the winter. When they may be needed to last several days.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Batteries? Solar? You`d better have a huge array plus a huge battery bank to do the stuff you`re describing. And a lot of $$ for that.
Not being a builder or architect, nor am I familiar with the area of Texas that you live in, it would be difficult to access your list for its vehicle detailing correctness.
1) What are are zoning laws and building codes for your area where you live? Building out in the middle of nowhere or largely rural area is MUCH different than a zoned residential area or a private estate community that may have covenant requirements as to what you can or can build.
THAT assessment would be my first and most criteria for my detailing garage. That may dictate:
A) Size of the garage
b) Overall Height
C) Ascetics (IE, architectural appearance, which may be cost-prohibitive if it needs to look like the home it is near or attatched to
D) Meet weather-related codes or fire codes if attached to a home
E) Building permits and building inspections
F) Impact it may have on future property and/or building taxes (Very often overlooked!!)
2) The oil separator for a floor drain may be a local building code AND subject to local or state natural resource department inspections, not to mention periodic cleaning and disposal cost. It`s NOT a cheap must-have. You may also be limited into a certain design style by those codes, especially one that is required to be accessible outside the garage area.
3) Lighting should be LED. You can find some VERY good info on that within this forum.
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...oking-recommendations.html?highlight=lighting
4) Plan on 220V-30Amp service. That Metro blow dryer you`ll want to add needs it
5) Did you ever think about an enclosed area within this garage for the wash area with plastic walls, kind of like an over-sized shower?
6) Info on Flooring ? See this thread:
https://www.autopia.org/forums/show-off-your-garage-/190445-floor-shop.html?highlight=floor
Let us know next year what you decide and any problems you may encounter. Work shops/garages designed specifically with detailing in mind are less talked about subject matter topics, but I think everyone has a specific area of concern or concerns about them for their own work area/garage.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Well I`m in Texas and I`m kind of hesitant to run the heater off natural gas. I think I`m just going to do a giant propane tank instead. Natural gas was the reason we had a power outage for 3 days. Seems like we`re liable to run out of gas again at some point, so from now on I`m just going to rely on having power on hand.
Propane vs Gas kinda sounds like it makes no difference, but I like to mention these things just in case it does. It never fails someone always knows something I didn`t
Amigo -
You are in Texas where all the Fracking is going on, and you have a natural gas shortage???
How is this possible?
And a power failure for 3 days because of natural gas???
Huh???
Regarding Electrical --
You absolutely want a licensed Journeyman or above, Electrician, to look at the existing service and make recommendations, and knows the current Electrical Codes for your location today...
NOT some kid you found on Craigslist, etc...
You absolutely want minimum 12awg wires for all your 20 amp outlets, and of course, all New 20 amp breakers..
And bigger wire, 10awg or bigger, for the big usage things like electrical heaters... Your Electrician should know about all this..
If you decide on electrical heat which is way more expensive than natural gas, you want perhaps another Panel just for that 220/240v power, to run this..
Your original electrical panel needs to be 100amp minimum and if it`s full , then expanded to a 200amp panel service..
If its full already and this is a warehouse, etc., you need to have this guy trace all the breakers to where they go and why..
You want to eliminate All possible weak points, problems, in your panel, AND at all the Plugs, before you start installing all your things..
And lastly, you need to have whatever Electrical Panel/s used to be clearly Marked at each Breaker, where they are/or what they do...
The size breaker is already marked on the breaker itself, i.e., 15amp, 20amp, etc.. You just want to know where it is, and/or what it powers at the plug in..
Good luck with this..
Dan F
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
I have never seen a pressure washer imbed dirt into the paintwork... In fact, if you hold it close enough it will be happy to Remove the paintwork..
Dan F
Accumulator
Well-known member
I`ve been offline due to Tech issues.....
When you price it, you`ll forget about "just for fun" NOT CHEAP by any means.
Dirty/wet towels go into laundry tubs on each side of the washbay and from those directly into the shop`s washing machine and dryer. The bins are to keep the various towels separate/sorted/organized/clean and dry.
If your towels are in bins/etc., and your tools/shelves are in the right place, you won`t have to worry about `em getting wet. I don`t care if the extractor gets wet...
My view is that the washbay is almost always gonna be wet if I`m working there, so I don`t want to keep anything *there* that I need to keep dry.
Swing arm? I just use a regular, *very low-end* pressure washer with a long hose. (Specifically, it`s the cheapest AR unit they made back when my wife bought it for me..$79 at Lowe`s) What I`d consider, and *might indeed do soon* , is get a second pressure washer so there`s one on each side of the bay like the redundant systems I have for everything else.
I`ve found that the smallest/weakest/cheapest pressure washer if fine for washing vehicles, no matter how dirty they get. I`ve had much more powerful ones, but don`t miss `em a bit for this application. So IME you can do fine *for washing vehicles* with the lowest psi/gpm units available.
I had cord reels hanging at my previous shop, but don`t use much that needs plugged it other than the pressure washer/AirWand/vacuum, and those stay plugged in all the time. I basically don`t do *anything* other than the Maintenance Washes any more, so that`s what the shops set up for. But that`s just how *I* use the shop so your plan oughta be great for how you use yours...sounds like you`ve given it lots of thought.
I`d give thought to what walls/finishes will hold up given the application. Painted block works for me, no way I`d bother tiling it (that`s how I did the bathroom).
When you price it, you`ll forget about "just for fun"
NOT CHEAP by any means.Dirty/wet towels go into laundry tubs on each side of the washbay and from those directly into the shop`s washing machine and dryer. The bins are to keep the various towels separate/sorted/organized/clean and dry.
If your towels are in bins/etc., and your tools/shelves are in the right place, you won`t have to worry about `em getting wet. I don`t care if the extractor gets wet...
My view is that the washbay is almost always gonna be wet if I`m working there, so I don`t want to keep anything *there* that I need to keep dry.
Heh heh, you`re making me wish I had that curtain!
Swing arm? I just use a regular, *very low-end* pressure washer with a long hose. (Specifically, it`s the cheapest AR unit they made back when my wife bought it for me..$79 at Lowe`s) What I`d consider, and *might indeed do soon* , is get a second pressure washer so there`s one on each side of the bay like the redundant systems I have for everything else.
I`ve found that the smallest/weakest/cheapest pressure washer if fine for washing vehicles, no matter how dirty they get. I`ve had much more powerful ones, but don`t miss `em a bit for this application. So IME you can do fine *for washing vehicles* with the lowest psi/gpm units available.
I had cord reels hanging at my previous shop, but don`t use much that needs plugged it other than the pressure washer/AirWand/vacuum, and those stay plugged in all the time. I basically don`t do *anything* other than the Maintenance Washes any more, so that`s what the shops set up for. But that`s just how *I* use the shop so your plan oughta be great for how you use yours...sounds like you`ve given it lots of thought.
wannafbody
wannafbody
I have propane in my work garage. For some reason it doesn`t feel warm like oil heat.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Well, as we used to say, you can`t have fun without oil...or was it cubes? Something like that.
bennylava
New member
Yes I`ll be building out in BFE because I don`t really want to deal with neighbors. And all of the building requirements you mentioned. Sounds like a big bureaucratic ball of red tape that`s best avoided. I`ll make another thread when the building is completed in case it may help other decide what to do.
Yeah we had that big power outage for like a week in some places, when we had a bad winter recently. Got down to something like 0 degrees for a week, which for Texas wasn`t ready for. I think most winters we don`t drop below the 20`s, and most of our winter is above freezing. So when this happened, the natural gas was getting used by everyone and their dog and they couldn`t keep up with demand. Another thing is that Texas is a big energy exporter, so some big chunk of that gas was going out of state.
I didn`t like being out of power for days in 0 degrees, so I`m going to build my next place accordingly. I`ll just have some giant propane tank on hand that`s good for a few weeks worth of heating. I`m building a house at the same time, so I`ll just use the propane to heat both.
I wonder if there`s anything to this. I don`t know all that much about heating. Maybe the type of fuel used can cause the heat to linger just a bit longer? Or maybe it`s all imagined
I`d be curious if oil heating ever left any kind of residue on your stuff. In which case I`m definitely going with propane instead.Guess I was wrong about this, but I always thought you wanted the most pressure and water volume you could get without harming the paint. Within reason of course, but it would still come out to be a pretty nice power washer. And as usual, expensive. But the idea was to have the power washer do the work so you spent less time wiping.
There must be some kind of limit I`m not aware of. Maybe there`s some pressure number where you won`t take the paint off, but you`re still hurting the finish.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Don`t be quite so quick to call yourself "wrong"
Different people/situations etc. etc.NORMALLY...[heck] yeah, I`d want all the pressure/volume I could get away with! But...reality (i.e., older cars) dictates that I be cautious, and since the weaker ones seem to do the job just fine, I`m leaning towards sticking with those. OR...one weak one like I already have and one that`s a bit more potent...maybe.
Note that I`m also concerned about overspray, which is less of an issue with the weaker units.
I was looking at the undercarriage attachments for these, and some require a *LOT* of psi/gpm! Something like those would be more convenient than the "bent normal wand" that I use with my little one, but that thing works great.
Oh, and note that the rinsing off with the pressure washer is only the *first* step to my washes...the first of quite a few. It`s just to "get the big stuff off" before I switch to the foamgun and the BHBs and mitts. For that, you really don`t need much, at least not IME.
Back when I had a much more powerful pressure washer, I *never* seemed to get anywhere close to its max when doing anything car-related...but it was sure swell for everything else! Shame that all those units kept dying, right out-of-warranty of course. Now that I have a cheap little "disposable" one, it`s lasting forever...go figure!
If the cost doesn`t bug you, maybe you *should* go ahead and get something really potent. Then you could use the undercarriage attachments (if that`s a factor down there in TX).
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
I think with any kind of heating, you want to know the number of BTU`s coming from that source of heat.. Some things produce more BTU`s than others..
Perhaps if you research the average number BTU`s of heat between propane heat, natural gas heat, electrical heat, then that will help you figure out which one is best for your needs.. You want to know how "Hot" these things burn..
I remember when I was a kid living in Dallas, one year it absolutely snowed and froze that year..
When I was in The USAF, stationed at the top of the world, it got down to -84F that winter... When it started warming up and got all the way up to 0 degrees, it felt like a Heat Wave and we went out side in shorts and T shirts and threw the football around..
Pressure Washers - I have been using the same 2gpm, 2,000 psi pressure washer for a few decades and it has been just fine..
You want to have the Widest Tip on it that you can get, so you get more of a Fan spray. This will cover more area and will be the safest using it on painted surfaces..
The purpose of me using it is to quickly remove some surface dirt (not all will come off), and getting into places to remove all the little trees that grow from seeds, that fall into the outside trim or areas like the trunk jambs. Also, fender wells, carefully on wheels, tires, underbody, etc., and engines, the engine compartment, all of the area under the hood in the front, behind the grill, etc.,
It is good to use to clean out the area where the gas cap goes, and the inside of that door, that sometimes is very dirty..
On vehicles that come to me really, really, dirty, I sometimes will wet it all over, then come back and spray Meguiars Degreaser or APC, all over the paintwork, let it sit for a couple of minutes, and then spray it all off. This helps break the layer of dirt, grease, etc.. initially, and makes the follow up hand wash go by so much faster..
Especially good to spray the Degreaser/APC in the gas filler area and the back of the gas filler door..
You will have to learn how to use it safely so you do not damage the paint, etc., on vehicles..
The best advice = keep the tip far away from the paint, experiment with how close you can get, and keep it moving - always - or risk it might damage paintwork..
Think about what you should NOT spray with it.. On a vehicle, the underhood Insulation is one thing that should never be, or only very carefully sprayed from a distance, so you don`t damage it and have to replace it..
A way more powerful pressure washer like 3 gpm+ with more pressure? Perhaps it might work faster, but it is also more dangerous if you get too close to some things...
I like a bigger, more powerful pressure washer to clean concrete, for example, but remember, that the machine is actually removing a small layer of dirty concrete to get it that clean again...
My pressure washer is a gas powered unit, going on 40 years old, and is still going strong..
Dan F
Perhaps if you research the average number BTU`s of heat between propane heat, natural gas heat, electrical heat, then that will help you figure out which one is best for your needs.. You want to know how "Hot" these things burn..
I remember when I was a kid living in Dallas, one year it absolutely snowed and froze that year..
When I was in The USAF, stationed at the top of the world, it got down to -84F that winter... When it started warming up and got all the way up to 0 degrees, it felt like a Heat Wave and we went out side in shorts and T shirts and threw the football around..
Pressure Washers - I have been using the same 2gpm, 2,000 psi pressure washer for a few decades and it has been just fine..
You want to have the Widest Tip on it that you can get, so you get more of a Fan spray. This will cover more area and will be the safest using it on painted surfaces..
The purpose of me using it is to quickly remove some surface dirt (not all will come off), and getting into places to remove all the little trees that grow from seeds, that fall into the outside trim or areas like the trunk jambs. Also, fender wells, carefully on wheels, tires, underbody, etc., and engines, the engine compartment, all of the area under the hood in the front, behind the grill, etc.,
It is good to use to clean out the area where the gas cap goes, and the inside of that door, that sometimes is very dirty..
On vehicles that come to me really, really, dirty, I sometimes will wet it all over, then come back and spray Meguiars Degreaser or APC, all over the paintwork, let it sit for a couple of minutes, and then spray it all off. This helps break the layer of dirt, grease, etc.. initially, and makes the follow up hand wash go by so much faster..
Especially good to spray the Degreaser/APC in the gas filler area and the back of the gas filler door..
You will have to learn how to use it safely so you do not damage the paint, etc., on vehicles..
The best advice = keep the tip far away from the paint, experiment with how close you can get, and keep it moving - always - or risk it might damage paintwork..
Think about what you should NOT spray with it.. On a vehicle, the underhood Insulation is one thing that should never be, or only very carefully sprayed from a distance, so you don`t damage it and have to replace it..
A way more powerful pressure washer like 3 gpm+ with more pressure? Perhaps it might work faster, but it is also more dangerous if you get too close to some things...
I like a bigger, more powerful pressure washer to clean concrete, for example, but remember, that the machine is actually removing a small layer of dirty concrete to get it that clean again...
My pressure washer is a gas powered unit, going on 40 years old, and is still going strong..
Dan F
bennylava
New member
What do yall think about heated power washers? As a teen I worked at a light pole plant, and we had to degrease all those giant light poles you see in parking lots before they could be painted and sent out. We had an awesome heated power washer there, it was heated by propane. Those poles came from china caked in gunk and it was all coming off once that power washer got warmed up. It was scalding hot.
Any thoughts on using something like that on a car? Sounds like a bad idea to me, but I`ve noticed some people have been "steaming" their car paint lately lol
Any thoughts on using something like that on a car? Sounds like a bad idea to me, but I`ve noticed some people have been "steaming" their car paint lately lol
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Heated power washers might work pretty good, but I bet they are really expensive to buy and use..
In my Dad`s garage, the guys had one they used to clean things under vehicles, like take the wheels off and clean all the brake parts with hot water and it worked great to quickly remove all that brake dust, etc., without chemicals...
I see no advantage to steaming car paint.. If not paying attention, one could probably damage it or the surrounding seals, etc... I use water pressure correctly, do a really great job, and you still need to wash it by hand afterwards...
When Steamers first came out for vehicles around 20+ years ago, people were using them to clean out interiors, carpets, seats, more than anything else..
You need a big capacity steamer, to ever be able to go even quick across an entire outside of a vehicle..
Then, many used a Steamer to clean the engine compartment, but again, you need a lot of steam pressure and longer hoses, etc., to be able to get one all over the engine and compartment, or it will take forever with those small ones..
I think high pressure steam up close to some components, connectors, under the hood could be a problem immediately or for sure later, when that steam cools and condenses into water, and perhaps gets into places that it was not meant to be..
I have best results using my same old pressure washer to clean most engines, engine compartments, all the places in front of the radiator, behind the front grill, etc., because I have been doing it for decades, and learned how to use it. There is a process I use that has enabled me to never have an issue with the hundreds of vehicles, that I have done this to. They always start right up when I have done the cleaning, and the rest of the process..
Dan F
Are not heated pressure washers called "Steam Cleaners"?
If you go that route , Detailed Image sells the high-end commercial Fortador brand and Chief Steamers sells there own commercial steamers direct.
Great steamers for external cleaning of vehicles, but a little (OK, a lot) out of the price range of most do-it-yourself detailing hobbyists.
It would be nice to know the name brand of the "heated pressure washer" used to clean those electrical poles before painting. Were they from the Hotsy Equipment Co out of Aurora, CO by chance, which has a network of area-designated dealers??
If you go that route , Detailed Image sells the high-end commercial Fortador brand and Chief Steamers sells there own commercial steamers direct.
Great steamers for external cleaning of vehicles, but a little (OK, a lot) out of the price range of most do-it-yourself detailing hobbyists.
It would be nice to know the name brand of the "heated pressure washer" used to clean those electrical poles before painting. Were they from the Hotsy Equipment Co out of Aurora, CO by chance, which has a network of area-designated dealers??
Accumulator
Well-known member
No, those are different. The hot-water pressure washers don`t get *that* hot.
The heated ones are awfully pricey, and I myself would never have a Detailing-related use for them. (Of course a situation like Stokdgs`s father had would be different! We used a big propane-powered steamer for that kind of thing.)
FWIW, and this might be ill-advised, so don`t just assume it`s OK....I`ve run hot water ("water heater turned up pretty high"-level) through mine a few times without any issues, but found it simply wasn`t necessary as "regular quiet warm" water (water heater on "regular HOT", both hot and cold water turned on FULL) worked fine even on the winter salt/etc.
bennylava
New member
Maybe I`m just lazy B)
I`m always looking for that thing that just melts all the dirt and grime and bugs (and everything away). With little effort on my part lol.
I must come up with the most efficient process! I think one of those steam blasters might actually be the best thing for nasty windshield bugs. Right now they still take a little wiping and scrubbing even with the bug-be-gone chemicals. Maybe at the same time, the steamer could be use to blast all the gunk off the rims. So it would be worth firing it up and waiting on it to heat up.
Street5927
New member
1. I don`t spray iron remover on the brakes themselves. On very very dirty wheels, I use a wheel cleaner/iron remover combo, but just on the wheels, not the brakes.
2. The intent of a foam gun/cannon, IMO is two fold. One, it starts to act as a pre-soak to break up some of the more caked on dirt, grime, etc. I`ve actually seen dirt and grime pull off of the vehicle and embed in the foam, and drip off of the vehicle. Second, I feel it reduces chances of micro marring by creating a intermediary between the surface and the wash media.
2. The intent of a foam gun/cannon, IMO is two fold. One, it starts to act as a pre-soak to break up some of the more caked on dirt, grime, etc. I`ve actually seen dirt and grime pull off of the vehicle and embed in the foam, and drip off of the vehicle. Second, I feel it reduces chances of micro marring by creating a intermediary between the surface and the wash media.