David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
GoudyL said:
I guess some people are easy to please.
How's the saying go? Walks like a shill, talks like a shill, therefore.....:beware
Turtle Wax Ice
- Thread starter DM101
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I guess some people are easy to please.
How's the saying go? Walks like a shill, talks like a shill, therefore.....:beware
I thought I was the only one who noticed.
I have nothing against OTC products. I think its pretty cool when people get spectacular results using them, but Goudy goes beyond that.
His posts dont promote just OTC products in general but specifically TW products. Its really unfair if hes coming in here "undercover" so to speak and basically advertising their products.
Dsoto87 said:
What can I say? I like most of the TW line up. If you think I'm bad, check all the Meguires fanboi's over at MOL.
But I use plenty of other products as needed. In no particular order.
Tire Dressing: Black Magic Titanium Matte Finish. (Although I would really like to find an alternative to this as I am now boycotting Shell oil products (all except for BMTMF
))Wheel Polish: Eagle 1 Nano Wheel Polish.
General purpose paint polish: KIT Scratch Out.
Spray Wax: Lucas Slick Mist
Glass Cleaner: Invisible Glass
Wheel Cleaner: Mothers FX Wheel Cleaner
If there is one OTC product I think everyone should try (besides TW Ice) it would be Lucas Slick Mist, which is simply the best QD/Spray wax I have ever found so far.
Darkstar752
New member
Brandon1 said:
NXT 2.0 isn't that great but it's better than the Liquid TW ICE. Haven't tried the paste and don't intend to. Want a great OTC (Somewhat, Harbor Freight has it.) wax? Try Collinite 915. One of the longest lasting waxes there is, if not the longest lasting. It's the paste version of 845, and has incredible looks behind it too. Not the best looks, I prefer Rubbish Boy's Orginal Edition, but definitely the best overall wax, when looking at price, availability, looks, and durability it can't be beat.
Check it out here:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-de...rizon-detailing-2005-jeep-grand-cherokee.html
That glow and looks are just amazing IMO!
SuperBee364
New member
Darkstar752 said:
Dang, I wanna get some of that... bad.
GoudyL said:
not to call you out... but abrasives are what dry and form a haze??? last time i used non abrasive products, like 845, 476, surf city barrier reef, shine on package from surf city,mothers pure carnuba, s100, etc etc (all of which contain no abrasives) they each hazed up (especially the surf city stuff) are you going to tell us that all those companies are lying to us, and their products to indeed contain abrasives reguardless of their claims?? is TW the only company that tells us the truth anymore?? :spit:
ok. i am talking about the pre 2008 version.. i bought it when i was 16(3 years ago . today is my 19th b-day), to put it on my moms trailblazer for mothers day , ha. i was dissapointed... im thinking im not going to try the new version either...
imported_rydawg1
New member
GoudyL said:
:bawling: $100 a bottle and would be raving about it?????
:hm Let's see, it's only $15 and in the masses of thousands of people hands and still not many people rave about it.
I have had numerous pre-customers use it and not one of them raved about it. I also had a hard time getting the embedded cheap silicones out of the paint.
Darkstar752
New member
SuperBee364 said:
Yea my 2nd favorite wax behind RBOE. BTW, that Jeep has 2 coats on it. The thing is the ease of use is sometimes a bit difficult. I've gotten maybe light holograms with it, but a nice wash or QD will take that away. Lay it thin and don't wait too long and it is no problem at all.
Here's another car I used Collinite on. I prefer sealants for lighter colors, but I didn't bring any with me, and the Collinite looked pretty good anyway.
http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-de...orizon-detailing-2008-bmw-x3.html#post1286206
jDizzle said:last time i used non abrasive products, like 845, 476, surf city barrier reef, shine on package from surf city,mothers pure carnuba, s100, etc etc (all of which contain no abrasives) they each hazed up (especially the surf city stuff) are you going to tell us that all those companies are lying to us, and their products to indeed contain abrasives reguardless of their claims?? is TW the only company that tells us the truth anymore?? :spit:
Bentonite clay is common as a thickening/texturising agent in water containing emulsion systems. It is insoluble and will form a haze as the polish dries.
Also what people call abrasives varies, and clays/earths are good for filling out a formulation that would otherwise be too thin or lack bulk. It would be interesting to put some of those waxes in a crucible and ash them. You might be quite surprised to see what left behind.
But clay thickeners, and abrasives are not the only causes of hazing. Anything that is not optically clear (including insoluble waxes) that falls out of suspension/solution will cause hazing in a thin film. That's the natural process of emulsion breakdown/phase separation or precipitation as the case may be.
imported_rydawg1
New member
SuperBee364 said:
Darkstar is right. 915 is a great superb wax. One of the best paste waxes I have tried.
The protection is amazing! I had it on two blacks cars that went through the harsh winter up here and in the spring the finish only diminished 1%, that's all.
scary bill
New member
TW Ice is junk. Tried it on my truck and it didn't perform well. It added nothing to the look, except a dull greasy mess. Slickness washes away.
It does work on tires well. A little overpriced for a tire and trim dressing.
It does work on tires well. A little overpriced for a tire and trim dressing.
rydawg said:
Sure why not, if it costs more and can't be bought OTC, it has to be better than OTC products. Exclusiv quality and secret ingredients/formulations etc.
Rydawg, That's a very biased sample, since people who are happy with TW Ice probably aren't buying your services, are they? :hm
Methinks you should stick to detailing and not statistical inference. :lol: Google surviviorship bias, and story of Abraham Wald and the WWII bombers.
Digital Roam: The hole story: What you don't see will kill you
If we wanted to draw valid conclusions from your highly biased sample we'd need to know an awful lot about TW Ice's relative market share, tendancy of different LSP brand's customers to be unsatisfied with that brand, and tendancy of those unsatisfied customers to seek out your services. We'd also have to adjust for the condition's of cars, and the distribution of car condition within brands, and tendance to become unsatisfied based on car condition and brand of wax used.
Only then could we determine if TW Ice generated a disproportionate amount of your "pre-customers".
Without knowing that, your biased sample is mostly useless for drawing conclusions, and is perhaps worse than useless since it might confuse and mislead people who don't know much about statistical sampling and bayesian inference.
Ultimately it can all be summed up in that people who are happy with TW Ice are not going to be your customers, and so you'll never see them in your shop. :hmph:
That's because TW Ice lacks durability compared to traditional sealants which can be easily removed with dishwashing detergent. :lol:
BTW: The TW Ice liquid clay bar will quickly remove TW ice.
scary bill
New member
GoudyL said:Rydawg, That's a very biased
You are actually going to call out Rydawg about bias. :spit:
At least he is not a TW shill. He actually know about detailing and has pics to prove it. Where are your pics?
Darkstar752
New member
scary bill said:
TW representatives don't actually detail cars
And seriously, disagreeing with extremely experienced detailers about their own line of work and the products they use? WTF? Haha if it was anything else, Goudy would be like sure, that hot tub is nice, but here's a warm puddle over here that does the same thing! :laugh:
scary bill
New member
Darkstar752 said:TW representatives don't actually detail cars
And seriously, disagreeing with extremely experienced detailers about their own line of work and the products they use? WTF? Haha if it was anything else, Goudy would be like sure, that hot tub is nice, but here's a warm puddle over here that does the same thing! :laugh:
Lets just market some olive oil for $100/ oz, we can have the bestes wax evar!
imported_rydawg1
New member
GoudyL said:Rydawg, That's a very biased sample, since people who are happy with TW Ice probably aren't buying your services, are they? :hm
Methinks you should stick to detailing and not statistical inference. :lol: Google surviviorship bias, and story of Abraham Wald and the WWII bombers.
Digital Roam: The hole story: What you don't see will kill you
If we wanted to draw valid conclusions from your highly biased sample we'd need to know an awful lot about TW Ice's relative market share, tendancy of different LSP brand's customers to be unsatisfied with that brand, and tendancy of those unsatisfied customers to seek out your services. We'd also have to adjust for the condition's of cars, and the distribution of car condition within brands, and tendance to become unsatisfied based on car condition and brand of wax used.
Only then could we determine if TW Ice generated a disproportionate amount of your "pre-customers".
Without knowing that, your biased sample is mostly useless for drawing conclusions, and is perhaps worse than useless since it might confuse and mislead people who don't know much about statistical sampling and bayesian inference.
Ultimately it can all be summed up in that people who are happy with TW Ice are not going to be your customers, and so you'll never see them in your shop. :hmph:
That's because TW Ice lacks durability compared to traditional sealants which can be easily removed with dishwashing detergent. :lol:
BTW: The TW Ice liquid clay bar will quickly remove TW ice.
I really hope your getting paid big time for promoting this company!
Oooohh, sounds like I hit a personal soft spot. You sound upset cause I had actual customers that were not impressed with TW products. Don't take it personal, it's not the end of the world. It's just plain reality.
Yes, I did have a few new clients last year that had originally polished and waxed their cars themselves and granted they were not pros, they "overall" were not happy with TWI. I had actually met them at a car show and told them their cars need polishing work and they hired me to make them beautiful along with using high quality products and teach them what to use to maintain it. The outcome was phenominal and they were very pleased with the new sealant/wax I applied for protection.
I myself seeing how TWI looked on a few cars, do not think anything special of it. Yes it was ok looking, but nothing speacial at all. With all the amazing top quality products out there, TWI does not even come close in the looks department, let alone other factors.
Your strong "personal" claims for the product are very misleading and are getting very old not only to me, but to hundreds of other members here. Don't forget we are on a car care forum and most people here are looking for superior products and will spend the money on boutique quality products that produce superior results. Please do not ruin their fun and get in their way with your TW nonsense. We as a community are getting tired of it.
Also, you do not have to bring Abraham Wald and the WWII bombers in to defend your battle of the TW bombers. The TW bombers already lost the battle.
You calling me out on bias sample is funny! You have no clue to who you are talking to. I have mastered thousands of cars to perfection in the past 20 years and have been through thosands of products. I ONLY demand the very best and I am very sorry if that bothers you. Your just upset that I have strong credibility and you have none. Who are people going to believe, you or me?
Be careful who you preach to... This whole choir is not listening!
:dig
:laugh: Are you talking to yourself or me? I think you need to say that to yourself in the mirror. Seriously!!!!
You should seriously play with a bunch of top quality products mentioned here and your whole outlook will change drastically.
And lastly, a messege from your leader!:laugh:
Turtle Wax - History - Video
imported_rydawg1
New member
Darkstar752 said:TW representatives don't actually detail cars
And seriously, disagreeing with extremely experienced detailers about their own line of work and the products they use? WTF? Haha if it was anything else, Goudy would be like sure, that hot tub is nice, but here's a warm puddle over here that does the same thing! :laugh:
:spot Now that's funny. True, but funny as helll.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
rydawg said:
Priceless!!! Funny how ole Ben Hirsh was initially a magician. He sure did trick everyone who bought his products. Turtle River was hilarious too.
Junebug
JAFO
You know, Brandon is as good of a detailer as anyone on this board, I've seen his work and worked with him on some projects and I know he's tried about every product out there. He says TW Ice paste is good - that's saying alot. Now, I've tried products that both David and Ryan recommended to me and got so-so to sub par results, so take it all with a grain of salt, what works for you may not work for others. I get tired of the TW is crap along with other OTC stuff - when the facts (as I've seen them) suggests that price and boutiqueness don't equal the best in either quality or value. We all know that if you have a properly polished car, almost any wax will look great, it's the prep that counts more than the LSP (most of the time).
As far as the TW video - hey, the guy worked his butt off and finally hit a home run. Is that any different from Megs - started as furniture polish, or any of the rebadged CG/Warner Chem products that cost 2-3X as much. Ya'll need to watch it, you could bust your asre falling off that high horse.
BTW - I don't own any TW stock, and if things continue - my 401K won't own any stock in anything!
As far as the TW video - hey, the guy worked his butt off and finally hit a home run. Is that any different from Megs - started as furniture polish, or any of the rebadged CG/Warner Chem products that cost 2-3X as much. Ya'll need to watch it, you could bust your asre falling off that high horse.
BTW - I don't own any TW stock, and if things continue - my 401K won't own any stock in anything!
rydawg said:
Yep, I have little tolerance of people who draw conclusions from non-representative samples.
Again, the folks who are happy with TW Ice (or really any other auto car product) are not going to be your customers. You are not going to meet these people even if you detailed cars for thousands of years, because they are not going to be buying your services.
You cannot reverse generalise from your customer base to draw conclusions about the wider population of LSP users, because your customer base will not include the satisfied customers who exist in the complete population.
A non-representative sample no matter how big will not be useful for making valid conclusions about the complete population.
This is already sounding representative of the wider population of LSP users. People who exhibit cars at car shows.
Insecure people at car shows,
Now you'd have to be able to show that after equal prep, TWI was not equal to or better.
All you have evidence for is that Your proposed sealant with your prep, is better than TWI with their prep.
And of course you'll never meet the folks who find TWI very nice with their own prep, because they will not be buying your services.
Finally, a potentially useful statement. :getdown
Now whats interesting is that you seem to be implying that you have no personal experience with using TWI yourself. You've only seen it on other cars, who's owners didn't seem happy with it.
How's about yours? Have you ever purchased and used TW Ice?
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