Trump`s Taxes (lol)

[JSFM35X]

I think it`s because most people will look at the fact that he has not paid taxes what people consider his fair share as a negative and it`s hard for tax professionals to understand the tax code let alone average joe usa. If he didn`t pay his legally obligated fair share he would be busted already. There are too many people in the government who dislike him that it would already be out or leaked. The fact that he didn`t pay taxes doesn`t bother me as long as he is within the law. Even if he`s right at the thin line of the law. Even if he has a reason that defensable As to why he made an assumption I`m ok. However, If it`s downright illegal I`d have an issue

How many people work at a hotel, loads of new jobs right ? What can it cost to build? How many years did it take to build ? While it`s being built who pays the construction workers the supplies , the taxes, the permits , the insurance? For how many years before the first family checks in and pays for a few nights stay ? At that rate X that many rooms less all operating expenses when do you get your expenses covered and get profitable ? It`s too hard to imagine but for some it`s a calculation and it involves complex strategy and tax right offs are a part of it as is financing. Not to mention the risk of your capital. And yes some deals are going to go south. If you do enough deals eventually some don`t pan out. It`s life in business.

If Trump knew what he did with his taxes was legal then why didn`t he just release them like every other candidate for the presidency has done? If you have nothing to hide, why try to hide?

 

[JSFM35X]

That`s a great point. Most would not even consider this as wrong but it`s worse because that is illegal.

Have you ever offered to pay for something in cash to avoid tax ? We hear this a lot when I use to sell in a retail setting many years ago and we actually had a sign by the register that said we don`t charge sales tax we just collect it. Still many people asked.

I wonder if those whining about others not paying taxes or wealthy not paying their fair share have ever worked for cash?

If you have ever worked for cash and not reported the income, you most likely avoided paying your fair share of taxes .... illegally.

 

[Ronkh]

Thanks, Ron. So what would be a good example of a tax loop hole that needs to be closed?

Tax inversions - moving out of country to save tax $. But the better solution is stop regulating our businesses to death and lower corp taxes so they want to be here and hire employees.

 

[Ronkh]

If Trump knew what he did with his taxes was legal then why didn`t he just release them like every other candidate for the presidency has done? If you have nothing to hide, why try to hide?

Any attorney will tell their client NO.
Yes the msm tells people he can, the irs will tell people he can. But should he? No, not till it`s been cleared.

Just cause you can do something, should you?

 

[JSFM35X]

This is exactly the mentality of why this county is in trouble. Don`t you see that when you build something massive, like a hotel or a skyscraper the upfront costs are so big that corporations that built it has losses for years ? Each deal is a new corporation for many reasons Anne some to limit liability,
Some because different entities or banks are involved and others to track costs accurately for tax purposes. If you could not write that off the massive upfront losses (costs) against future income nobody would build. Would that be better in your eyes ? The landscape would be very different especially in big cities. Building is big business. You know how many jobs that creates or would eliminate if you got your way and closed that legal deduction ? I`m not knocking you but I`m trying to explain why what you seem to detest is really very necessary to a thriving economy.

It`s no different than saying don`t deduct the dependent children on your tax return because the government needs the extra tax revenue. If your accountant asked you how much extra should I put you down for this year what would you do besides look for a new accountant. Same thing here....

I really hope I at least got you thinking as to why these rules are necessary. We as a country need to learn more about all issues and how they effect the whole economy before we cast judgment. We also need to learn from our fellow man and not assume he is the enemy because his views are different. Listen to the rational then draw your own conclusions.

I like that..."smart business man", yet lost a BILLLION dollars! lol lol. Let me guess.....you`re a trump supporter. LOL!!!

 

[trashmanssd]

THis is not a loop hole. It actually is what helps start businesses. Unless you like throwing money down a bottomless pit, and never recouping it.

Also, in Comm R/E, you don`t get to "expense" things like you do in a detail shop. You buy a Rupes Polisher, you deduct it on your taxes. In R/E if you put in a $50,000 boiler you pay for it right away, but only get to "depreciate" $2,500.00 a year for 20 years. on top of that, the difference is considered "profit" and taxable till it is completely depreciated. Another example is sidewalk, They say a sidewalk should last 30 years, so if you put in a 30k sidewalk you get to depreciate 1k/yr.

The unrealized "profit" is then considered "retained earnings" which means you`ve paid taxes on it, but it ain`t there. You don`t see it till you sell and then it gets added to your basis.

Thank you Ron for a well explained answer (its a topic many have a hard time grasping), hope you don`t mind I would like to add a few thoughts`s that parallel yours.

I can personally attest to the Comm R/E depreciation tables being a joke. My Brother and I purchased 2 space metal garage building`s the "write off" (IRS mandated depreciation schedule) on the building is either 31.5 or 39 years, we took a 15 year note figuring we would rather put all the rent into paying the building off and we would manage and maintain the buildings for zero salary. So for first 15 years I make zero real dollars off those properties but on paper by the tax code after the allowed depreciation deduction I show a 10-15K dollar profit. So that profit flows through on paper to my personal tax return and i have to pay real dollars today (about 5K) in taxes even though in real dollars that property gave me nothing today. 15 years from now though I will be able to make about 15K a year seemingly free of tax due to depreciation on that property but in reality I just paid those taxes 15 years early.

That Rupes polisher would go under a depreciation schedule also and the computer and any other tool or equipment you use for for your business all have depreciation schedules and cant be "written off" (take the whole depreciation deduction for what you actually paid for them) in the same year you buy them unless you put them on your allowed section 179 schedule.


If I may answer for Ron on the question asked what is a loop hole in tax code that could be closed. How about tightening the what is a farm or is Farm land rules for paying taxes and property taxes. People with the means and the want to buy very large private compounds (very wealthy business people, Hollywood elites, sports stars, Senators........) will buy hundreds or thousands of acres of land convert a small part of it to farming (which is usually leased to someone to farm it on one far corner of the property) which is taxed at near zero dollars claim the land as a farm land so they pay near nothing in property taxes.

 

[Ronkh]

Thank you Ron for a well explained answer (its a topic many have a hard time grasping), hope you don`t mind I would like to add a few thoughts`s that parallel yours.

I can personally attest to the Comm R/E depreciation tables being a joke. My Brother and I purchased 2 space metal garage building`s the "write off" (IRS mandated depreciation schedule) on the building is either 31.5 or 39 years, we took a 15 year note figuring we would rather put all the rent into paying the building off and we would manage and maintain the buildings for zero salary. So for first 15 years I make zero real dollars off those properties but on paper by the tax code after the allowed depreciation deduction I show a 10-15K dollar profit. So that profit flows through on paper to my personal tax return and i have to pay real dollars today (about 5K) in taxes even though in real dollars that property gave me nothing today. 15 years from now though I will be able to make about 15K a year seemingly free of tax due to depreciation on that property but in reality I just paid those taxes 15 years early.

That Rupes polisher would go under a depreciation schedule also and the computer and any other tool or equipment you use for for your business all have depreciation schedules and cant be "written off" (take the whole depreciation deduction for what you actually paid for them) in the same year you buy them unless you put them on your allowed section 179 schedule.


If I may answer for Ron on the question asked what is a loop hole in tax code that could be closed. How about tightening the what is a farm or is Farm land rules for paying taxes and property taxes. People with the means and the want to buy very large private compounds (very wealthy business people, Hollywood elites, sports stars, Senators........) will buy hundreds or thousands of acres of land convert a small part of it to farming (which is usually leased to someone to farm it on one far corner of the property) which is taxed at near zero dollars claim the land as a farm land so they pay near nothing in property taxes.

Thank you.

 

[xspwrstang]

This is exactly the mentality of why this county is in trouble. Don`t you see that when you build something massive, like a hotel or a skyscraper the upfront costs are so big that corporations that built it has losses for years ? Each deal is a new corporation for many reasons Anne some to limit liability,
Some because different entities or banks are involved and others to track costs accurately for tax purposes. If you could not write that off the massive upfront losses (costs) against future income nobody would build. Would that be better in your eyes ? The landscape would be very different especially in big cities. Building is big business. You know how many jobs that creates or would eliminate if you got your way and closed that legal deduction ? I`m not knocking you but I`m trying to explain why what you seem to detest is really very necessary to a thriving economy.

It`s no different than saying don`t deduct the dependent children on your tax return because the government needs the extra tax revenue. If your accountant asked you how much extra should I put you down for this year what would you do besides look for a new accountant. Same thing here....

I really hope I at least got you thinking as to why these rules are necessary. We as a country need to learn more about all issues and how they effect the whole economy before we cast judgment. We also need to learn from our fellow man and not assume he is the enemy because his views are different. Listen to the rational then draw your own conclusions.

I get this...the first few years of a start up are usually expected to be a loss hence the right offs, however, his was NOT a start up! If every business thought like him and amassed huge debt to build his structures then simply turned around, declare bankruptcy, and basically shut down every small business that actually built the structure, what then? What would we have? The end of the entrepreneur as we know it? And again, just like this tax issue, it was/is legal to do this but it just shows how this man is a con! He will do anything say anything to get his way at any cost, even if it means harming people along the way.

 

[RaysWay]

This thread has turned into a great discussion THANK YOU to everyone who is playing by the rules.

 

[Angus]

This thread has turned into a great discussion THANK YOU to everyone who is playing by the rules.

I agree! And IMHO you are being very generous by only banning a known antagonist for 30 days.

 

[Ronkh]

I get this...the first few years of a start up are usually expected to be a loss hence the right offs, however, his was NOT a start up! If every business thought like him and amassed huge debt to build his structures then simply turned around, declare bankruptcy, and basically shut down every small business that actually built the structure, what then? What would we have? The end of the entrepreneur as we know it? And again, just like this tax issue, it was/is legal to do this but it just shows how this man is a con! He will do anything say anything to get his way at any cost, even if it means harming people along the way.

Wrong on just about every point:

1. Every new business is a "start up"
2. Every project should be it`s own Corp, S-corp, LLC etc. Fact - to limit liabilities
3. In the referenced post, he did not declare bankruptcy.
4. Even if "bankrupt, the debtor must then pay tax on the amount "written off" by the lenders, since the lenders will be writing off their losses.
5. In this case going back to my point #3, he personally guaranteed those loan(s), so he had to come up with almost 1 billion dollars. (which is how/why he was able to write it off his taxes)

It is clearly obvious that you don`t understand the structure of this business and are listening to the politically motivated.

So who did he harm in this case? HE PAID THE LENDERS BACK.

 

[Ronkh]

And one additional point:

In order to have the almost 1bil, he had to make it somewhere. Hence the taxes were already paid prior.

 

[xspwrstang]

Wrong on just about every point:

1. Every new business is a "start up"
2. Every project should be it`s own Corp, S-corp, LLC etc. Fact - to limit liabilities
3. In the referenced post, he did not declare bankruptcy.
4. Even if "bankrupt, the debtor must then pay tax on the amount "written off" by the lenders, since the lenders will be writing off their losses.
5. In this case going back to my point #3, he personally guaranteed those loan(s), so he had to come up with almost 1 billion dollars. (which is how/why he was able to write it off his taxes)

It is clearly obvious that you don`t understand the structure of this business and are listening to the politically motivated.

So who did he harm in this case? HE PAID THE LENDERS BACK.

I didn`t state he declared bankruptcy in this case, I was simply using it as an example to compare how he DOES follow the law and use it for his own benefit. My point on that was, just because it`s legal, it doesn`t make it ethical. If you truly think that this man has never harmed any small business owners through his bankruptcies then you are not listening enough.

 

[Ronkh]

I didn`t state he declared bankruptcy in this case, I was simply using it as an example to compare how he DOES follow the law and use it for his own benefit. My point on that was, just because it`s legal, it doesn`t make it ethical. If you truly think that this man has never harmed any small business owners through his bankruptcies then you are not listening enough.

I may be guilty.......... But if I am, so are you, by the same theory.

Simple fact is, you don`t stay in business harming people. Soon NOBODY will do business with you. Starting a business is risky.

 

[JSFM35X]

Just some general philosophy and then I am done as far that this thread is concerned. I am 100% in favor of everyone following the law. I am going to love the country I live in no matter who gets elected. I am most terrified that one of the 2 will get elected, and sad, that the best person for the job, is not running. (Not exactally sure who that would be honestly).

Nobody is perfect, all the BS aside-don`t get side tracked by either sides jabs. Neither one of these people are without fault at some point, tact as some point and all have made some major miss quotes that are forever locked in the public record.

Focus on who you think will be able to :
1. Put the right people in place for their particular job and hold them accountable
2. Be able to stimulate the economy so I can keep spending too much money trying coatings.
3. Be able to layout a healthcare plan that works for everyone without breaking the bank of the small businessman, individual and the unemployed or retired.
4. Accomplish something -If someone has no track record of accomplishment at this point in their career I have little hope that they will change.
5. I hire people all the time that I think will get the job done. Not people who make me feel good, or kiss my hand.(don`t want to get banned)


People- we need a change, its crystal clear to me. Party loyalty aside-vote for the person you think can get it done for America. We have slipped in so many areas, and its time to turn this big ship around. As I stated-neither is perfect, not by a country mile.

I hope that the people can stop focusing on the blapper from both sides and concentrate on what it is that you think this country needs, and which of the two can get it done the best.

Good Luck to all of us.

 

[Ronkh]

Just some general philosophy and then I am done as far that this thread is concerned. I am 100% in favor of everyone following the law. I am going to love the country I live in no matter who gets elected. I am most terrified that one of the 2 will get elected, and sad, that the best person for the job, is not running. (Not exactally sure who that would be honestly).

Nobody is perfect, all the BS aside-don`t get side tracked by either sides jabs. Neither one of these people are without fault at some point, tact as some point and all have made some major miss quotes that are forever locked in the public record.

Focus on who you think will be able to :
1. Put the right people in place for their particular job and hold them accountable
2. Be able to stimulate the economy so I can keep spending too much money trying coatings.
3. Be able to layout a healthcare plan that works for everyone without breaking the bank of the small businessman, individual and the unemployed or retired.
4. Accomplish something -If someone has no track record of accomplishment at this point in their career I have little hope that they will change.
5. I hire people all the time that I think will get the job done. Not people who make me feel good, or kiss my hand.(don`t want to get banned)


People- we need a change, its crystal clear to me. Party loyalty aside-vote for the person you think can get it done for America. We have slipped in so many areas, and its time to turn this big ship around. As I stated-neither is perfect, not by a country mile.

I hope that the people can stop focusing on the blapper from both sides and concentrate on what it is that you think this country needs, and which of the two can get it done the best.

Good Luck to all of us.

Pragmatist......

 

[xspwrstang]

I may be guilty.......... But if I am, so are you, by the same theory.

Simple fact is, you don`t stay in business harming people. Soon NOBODY will do business with you. Starting a business is risky.

I like your point...people will eventually stop doing business with bad business. And maybe this year`s return will show how his net worth has been declining because of bad business, but then again that`s only speculation. We won`t know until we see what he actually reported. Both of my sons` schools asked me for a copy of my tax return this year. I was very uneasy handing them over but I couldn`t register them until I gave them the copies, so I can understand where he is coming from...I mean if millions of people were going to see my returns, it`s actually kind of scary. But I`m not running for President...so does that entitle us, the public, to see his returns? I guess that`s what this whole thing is about.

 

[Ronkh]

I like your point...people will eventually stop doing business with bad business. And maybe this year`s return will show how his net worth has been declining because of bad business, but then again that`s only speculation. We won`t know until we see what he actually reported. Both of my sons` schools asked me for a copy of my tax return this year. I was very uneasy handing them over but I couldn`t register them until I gave them the copies, so I can understand where he is coming from...I mean if millions of people were going to see my returns, it`s actually kind of scary. But I`m not running for President...so does that entitle us, the public, to see his returns? I guess that`s what this whole thing is about.

I for the most part was talking about vendors/suppliers/contractors. The democrats have pretty much destroyed trumps reputation with their followers, so there is no doubt there will be/is a down turn.. Most of it being BS..... IMHO they should be ashamed at their distortions, lies etc.

Did you know that there is a Soros backed pac that is offering a 5mil bounty for anyone who has dirt on Trump? Where do you think ms universe came from?

 

[rlmccarty2000]

I started this thread because I respect many of the people on this forum and wanted to hear the diverse points of view. The discussion brought out some great points and much to think about. Thanks everyone.

 

[Poorboy]

Many good points from so many people ... and yes over my life time in business have used many of the same tax laws, except that, of the 900 million he lost only 100 million was his to lose the rest was loans that had to be written off by banks and others who invested, and yes many of them got to write off their losses, but he never had to pay back the 800 million, but was able to write it off .. something definitely wrong there :hmmm::hmmm::hmmm: ... and yes, starting any business can have many years in the Red before profits are actually realized.

<<<< ..... crawling back under my rock :bubba