Traffic Film Remover - Not a consumer Item

Wonder if/how my softened (uh-oh, sodium ions!) water *does* factor in? Guess "not much" since I finish up with deionized anyhow...that degree of exothermic reaction is something I`ve *not* experienced, but yeah it does flash off faster before I get all that [stuff] off of there.
 
Signs of getting older:o

The older sensible part of me is saying I`ve got the cleanest rides on the block right now, with the underchassis desalted/desanded and the minute I take it out onto blacktop, it will just be as dirty.
 
mobiledynamics said:
Signs of getting older:o
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I`ve heard about that aging thing...no thanks ;)

The older sensible part of me is saying I`ve got the cleanest rides on the block right now, with the underchassis desalted/desanded and the minute I take it out onto blacktop, it will just be as dirty.
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Wel, I bet it won`t really be *just as dirty*, and good on ya for getting some of that [stuff] off the undercarriage.
 
eh, maybe the european stuff I`ve ordered only works with european H20.....

I`ve watched the pics and vids on DW forum. These guys literally can take a white makeup applicator and it`s amazing how clean their post test results look ...
 
Thx for the links on the truck wash guys. I`ve briefly looked at those, figuring they were high alkaline washes, etc. It`s the detailer OCD in me that requires homework on reading up on them, does the manf. recommend a neutralizing wash afterwards, etc, etc. And or can even get them in gallon jugs and not a 50 gallon drum delivered on a semi ;-)

Those touchless washes, aka, it`s a chemical wash after followed by HP jets. Hell, I tried the 15 degree tip shooting at a 45 angle, just because today....
 
I did take a couple of pictures to compare what a prewash with does for me before I wash with 2bm. The prewash is lsp safe and is made with specs for a domestic company here in Sweden. The second product I use is a tar degreaser you can use on wet surfeces and are made in Sweden also. This degrade the lsp a little and are only used to the lower side panels and the back of the car. A ceramic coating does it not effect the longevity of. The phone camera can has switch the setting between some photos as it was set on auto. But I think you can get to see the difference of the dirt that gets of in the steps.

The right side of the car I first rinsed of with a 45° nozzle tip with PW. First pic is before the rinse and the second after.
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Then foamed the car and let it dwell for 5-7min and used the water pressure from the PW to clean.

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This pic the tar degreaser has dwelled for 5min and clean rinsed to the right. You can see a small difference to the front wheel on the right but the big tar spot on the middle of the pic is loosen up. I got the tar of 3 weeks earlier.

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And the last pic before I do the wash with 2bm. The dark came fast so sorry no after pictures.



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Now to the left side of the car. Foamed it to dry paint and let it dwell for 5-7min and clean rinsed it of. This is the way I do it since it`s just as effective as a pre rinse and then foam.

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Hope you can see a little why I use a prewash method before touching the paint. If I only used to the prewash foam it could been a quick wash. But if I used the tar degreaser and not been doing a 2bm wash I would had to foam on a car soap and rinse it of to be neutralise the tar degreaser and be certain to get it fully of. I think that the tar degreaser is based on mineral spirits and that you don`t want to be on the car for to long.

I will look if I can find a sds document and take a screenshot for you so you can see what is in them.

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Purple Power Heavy Duty Vehicle and Boat Pressure Wash Concentrate works for me, not super sudsy but cleans pretty well (does not strip tar, it will strip LSP if not careful) and is super cheap. Out of the bottle it has a pH rating of 10 is about $9 a gallon at Walmart. If I find that my foaming mixture isn`t cleaning like I want it do, I just add some more to the foam cannon because it costs me roughly $0.08/oz.
 
Ahh....its all coming back to me. I did say I don`t remember winter washing. It`s like I mentally block it every year.


As a benchmark on HP Rinse and what remains, the easy baseline would be even the glass. It`s still cloudy even after 2 HP thorough rinses.
A quick wipe with the wipers and all good. That mechanical agitation is what I`m trying to avoid, if possible.
 
Based on this thread I purchased a 5 gallon container of Valugard Progard Truck Wash (the smallest size you could purchase). It was $163 with shipping - I`m happy to ship a gallon to those who are interested - $32 shipped - shoot me a PM. I`ll never use all 5 gallons of this on my 2 winter cars.
 
mobiledynamics said:
Ahh....its all coming back to me. I did say I don`t remember winter washing. It`s like I mentally block it every year.


As a benchmark on HP Rinse and what remains, the easy baseline would be even the glass. It`s still cloudy even after 2 HP thorough rinses.
A quick wipe with the wipers and all good. That mechanical agitation is what I`m trying to avoid, if possible.
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Test a citrus based degreaser and see what it does. A solvent based tar degreaser I would not use higher up than to the windows begins. But think a good cleaning with a glass cleaner is the best way to go. Spray on mf towel to control overspray. And maybe look into a good window coating that makes them easier to clean.

I have a opinion that them who is useing undiluted washer fluid accually destroys the rust protection and the paint. That leads to rust from inside the water drain chanels that runs thrue from the a-pillars to the bottom of the car vertical. And if it is on the backwindow where it runs down after wiped of with the wipers. Often is washer fluid based on ipa or ethanol I think and if used wrong I don`t think it`s good in the long run. You can see those who use solvent based tar degreaser over the sidewindows and it`s starting to rust from inside of the doors. My stepfather bought a used car that I suspect they have done this to. It`s the car on the pictures and is a Ford Focus 2011. I can show you pics from the back and it`s already rusted and follow the lines where the washer fluid runs down. And even the rubber gets streaking on the sidewindows and runs down the paint. I don`t get it to stop how much I clean it. A little rain and then it`s beginning to run down the car again. Someone with a RV who has had this problem with rubber seals and what you do to stop it is very welcome to help me out. Post pictures of it a little later.
 
I think there is good reason WHY traffic film removers (TFRs) are NOT a consumer-base product; consumers are not washing their vehicles in the winter outside. (unless its me in Wisconsin doing it during our January thaw, like yesterday when it was 48°F) Salt-removal and its associated liquid-binder(s) as the main source of traffic film are the domain of commercial car washes in the winter and car-wash chemicals designed for traffic film removal are in that same domain: commercial car washes, whether touch-less or brush.

I know that there are three car-wash chemical companies in my local area (DePere, WI): Lustra (Cleaning Systems, Inc), Blue Daulphin, & R.Lewis Technologies and for good reason. There are two major commercial car wash companies in the same area: PDQ Manufacturing and WashWorld, Inc. Most of them are spin-offs from PDQ Manufacturing. R.Lewis Technologies is owned and run by "Red" Lewis, who was the inventor of automated touch-less car washes and started PDQ Manufacturing. He sold this business, but developed his own car-care chemical company and chemical product blending/mixer equipment.
My point is that consumer-based car washes and chemicals for them that we Autopians are used to using, even using power washers, is NOT the same as those used in a commercial car wash. That said, I would think that car cleaning chemicals developed for commercial car-washes MIGHT have a cross-over application for power washers and until someone here obtains some and tries it , we Autopians do not know if it is feasible as such. I go back then to my original statement: how many consumers (Autopians) in winter-climate areas where salt and binders are used clean their own cars in the winter, whether outside or in a heated garage?
 
Lonnie said:
I go back then to my original statement: how many consumers (Autopians) in winter-climate areas where salt and binders are used clean their own cars in the winter, whether outside or in a heated garage?
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See, I just find that surprising! I`ve been pretty nuts about doing it since forever...my Mother`s utterly wonderful `69 Charger R/T rusted away inthe early `70s because she and her sister drove it in the winter without getting all the salt washed away (they were otherwise incredibly good about the Detailing stuff, let alone for women back then) and I never wanted that to happen to one of mine. (Heh heh, my Father traded his in too frequently for his relative neglect to bite him.)
 
Lonnie said:
how many consumers (Autopians) in winter-climate areas where salt and binders are used clean their own cars in the winter, whether outside or in a heated garage?
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I wash all year round. I just make sure I wash early enough that there is enough time for the sun or dry winter air to dry the pad so that it`s not a ice skating rink the following morning.
 
Lonnie -

In all honesty, I know there is a lot of ju ju sauce going on with touchless washes. Combo of lo-high ph chems, specific dwell times, specific dwell times, then pressure jets to get all that much off after the chemical peel if you want to call it that. One can only wonder or wish to some degree one can acheive it @ home in a consumer or in this case, a prosumer environment ?
 
This is pics of the same car and the same wash I uploaded before. So before pic 1 and foam pic 2 and after foam clean rinsed pic 3 and the 4th pic after tar degreaser and before touching the paint.

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You can see the rust and paint chips a little bit over and to each side of the number plate. And the wiper end turns where the window fluid runs down. Even at the lowest edge of the trunk lid is a rust line. This happens before the car was 4 years old. And since I have started to take care of the last year it`s stopped spreading slower I think.

Here I try to translate from the sds document of a touchless wash that is available to the consumer in Sweden. And what I have seen so far on swedish forums it`s impresive. We can accually get wash chemicals that is used in car brush washes and touchless car washes. I think those is even to strong for me to use LOL. And I think you have noticed that I use more chemicals when washing than you are used to see. But as I have said before it`s a common way to prewash like this here. And if you want to test it out. Get a citrus based degreaser like Angelwax Cleanliness and a tar remover and either wash after or foam a car soap on and rinse. The best results you get with a pressure wash.
But you can go to a coin op and have pressure spray bottles or and spray bottles with chemicals ready to use. If you do it this way start with apply the tar remover first. Apply it to the side and back of the car and from the bottom up to a bit before where the windows begins. And when it has dwelled after recommended time from the manufacture and you don`t let it dry. You apply the citrus degreaser over it and to the whole car and let that dwell as recommended. Then PW it of with start from the bottom and work your way up and use the water pressure from the PW as it`s your wash mitt. Rinse the car well after this to get it of. Do your wheels if needed to if the citrus degreaser didn`t cleaned it. The tar degreaser you can use on the wheels if needed. But not in the wheel wells!
Now you finish with apply the the car soap and let it dwell for a couple of minutes and rinse it of. Start your engine and drive off :) And if you have a good sheeting lsp the water rolls of. Or if you have a cordless leafblower to dry it. Not touching the paint with a drying towel as it`s not clean enough. If possible and if you want to rinseless or waterless wash it at the coin op or when you come home.

Chemicals in the prewash and touchless wash from the product Mafra Mangusta. It`s a Italy based company.
From the msds

Etidronic acid <5%
Ethoxy alcohol <5%
EDTA <5%
Sodium hydroxide <5%
Nitrilotriacetic acid <5%
2-Butoxyethanol <2%
Potassium hydroxide <2%


When used in the foamcannon the dilution is about 1:9 and max chemical from it. From a spray bottle a dilution about 1:50. You can only buy it in 5 gallon size. There is some harsh chemicals in that lol

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