To use dawn or not to?
- Thread starter pjoseph24
- Start date
Paulie Walnuts
New member
No no no no no.
Dawn is for dishes, not your car.
What prewax cleaner are you thinking of using?
Dawn is for dishes, not your car.
What prewax cleaner are you thinking of using?
Deep Gloss Auto Salon
New member
No dawn on my paint nor my customers....
If you are looking to strip remove everything why not just use a strong wash (I believe nxt is strong) but increase the soap to water ratio, this is if you dont intend on claying polishing in which case I think that would do the trick as well.
If you are looking to strip remove everything why not just use a strong wash (I believe nxt is strong) but increase the soap to water ratio, this is if you dont intend on claying polishing in which case I think that would do the trick as well.
LazerRed1
New member
Why not use CG Citrus at the stripping strength? Much better for the paint.
Ok so i will stay away from the dawn.
Im not sure what pre wax cleaner i was going to use i have used meguires paint cleaner in the past.
I plan on claying the car with the zaino clay that came with the kit, so will claying the car get the surface clean enough to continue with the other zaino products... polish etc.
Im not sure what pre wax cleaner i was going to use i have used meguires paint cleaner in the past.
I plan on claying the car with the zaino clay that came with the kit, so will claying the car get the surface clean enough to continue with the other zaino products... polish etc.
hXc drummer23
New member
Mothers makes a pre wax cleaner that is easy to use.
sixty7mustang22
New member
MotorCity said:
NXT isn't strong enough to strip the wax.
BlueLibby04
New member
Meguiars DC#1 should work just fine as a paint cleaner.
So:
-Wash with a good soap made for washing a car.
-Clay
-Paint cleaner
-Polish
-Sealant or wax
-Maintain
So:
-Wash with a good soap made for washing a car.
-Clay
-Paint cleaner
-Polish
-Sealant or wax
-Maintain
I used to be 100% against using Dawn. I have recently changed my tune.
Compared to other methods of deep cleaning, Dawn is no worse than using a pre-wax cleaner that contains solvents. In no way is it as harsh as a citrus based cleaner.
So, IMHO, if you need to use Dawn to wash away silicones, dirt, grease, tar, salt, bugs, bird droppings... do it. Then be sure to properly treat all of the exterior finishes again.
Compared to other methods of deep cleaning, Dawn is no worse than using a pre-wax cleaner that contains solvents. In no way is it as harsh as a citrus based cleaner.
So, IMHO, if you need to use Dawn to wash away silicones, dirt, grease, tar, salt, bugs, bird droppings... do it. Then be sure to properly treat all of the exterior finishes again.
Super_Herb
New member
While I understand the whole theory behind using Dawn to strip wax, why is it Dawn in particular that many swear by? Does it have some special ingredients that other dish soaps don't have....ingredients which are condusive to stripping car waxes and sealants? Will Palmolive not remove wax? What about Ivory brand? Which version of Dawn do people refer to? Does the Dawn with antibacterial contain the same cleaning power as the Dawn with citrus scent?
Why is it a simple dish soap is so easily able to remove both carnuba and polymer sealants, two completely different chemical compounds....and neither of which is made of food grease so prevelant on your dirty dishes (which is what Dawn was designed for).
Has Dawn become a soap with almost mythical properties amongst detailers due to the constant parroting of its name amongst the internet masses? Every automotive type forum I've ever been on that has a section on detailing will have people talking about the magic of Dawn when it comes to stripping and cleaning your paint.
:nixweiss :nixweiss
I guess I just want to understand the how and why of it all.
Why is it a simple dish soap is so easily able to remove both carnuba and polymer sealants, two completely different chemical compounds....and neither of which is made of food grease so prevelant on your dirty dishes (which is what Dawn was designed for).
Has Dawn become a soap with almost mythical properties amongst detailers due to the constant parroting of its name amongst the internet masses? Every automotive type forum I've ever been on that has a section on detailing will have people talking about the magic of Dawn when it comes to stripping and cleaning your paint.
:nixweiss :nixweiss
I guess I just want to understand the how and why of it all.
Years ago I wrote the following in one of my articles. It might help. Dawn is simply a very good household detergent that cleans many surfaces and removes many types of soil very well.
***
CLEANING CHEMICALS
The car care industry is full of chemicals for cleaning. There is no such thing as a do-it-all cleaner (no matter what you saw on some crazy infomercial!). It simply does not exist. Detailing chemicals are mixtures of different ingredients formulated to do a particular job. The most common chemical functions include surfactants, solvents, wetting agents, saponifiers and chelators.
The word surfactant is a fancy, two-bit term for any soap or detergent. Surfactant molecules are created with two compounds. One molecule is attracted to the soil itself, where the other is attracted to water. The chemical compound that’s attracted to water is called a hydrophile. Its job is to surround the soil. Likewise, the chemical compound that’s attracted to soil is called a hydrophobe. Its job is to break soil into smaller pieces so it can be surrounded by the hydrophile to be floated away.
Every cleaner needs a solvent to dissolve soil. The most common solvent is one you might not even think of: water. Some solvents, such as mineral spirits, work great on petroleum soils (like tar and grease) and may be necessary on surfaces that might be damaged by water. Other solvents that are common in car care chemicals include d-limonene (made from orange and lemon peels) and butyl. Although expensive, d-limonene is a safe solvent to use throughout the car.
Chemists modify the hydrophile and hydrophobe molecules to change the characteristics of a surfactant. For example, a surfactant that is a good detergent (detergents break a soil’s bond to a surface) will not be a good penetrating agent. Penetrating and wetting allows water to surround soil so it can be removed. As you might have now surmised, the chemist can improve the performance of a good detergent surfactant by including a second surfactant that has good wetting and penetrating qualities.
Did you know that animal fat is used in the manufacturing of soaps? Boil some pig fat, add a handful of lye, and you can make a bar of soap. The same chemical process that makes soap can be used to remove fats and oils. Chemists use agents called saponifiers (basically a strong alkaline substance) to convert fats and oils into soap. Once transformed to soap, fats and oils can be washed away with water.
Speaking of soap, have you ever noticed how much better soap does in soft water? If you’re used to hard water conditions, using a bar of soap in soft water feels much different. Hard water, which is any water that contains high concentrations of calcium, iron, magnesium and other minerals, thwarts the cleaning ability of a chemical. This is because the cleaner reacts to the minerals in hard water as soil, which uses up the cleaning agents.
To combat this problem, chemists add chelating agents to their cleaners to bind the minerals so the cleaner can go after the real soil. This is why some car wash shampoos seem to hold the suds longer than others. Good suds have very little to do with how much car shampoo you use.
***
CLEANING CHEMICALS
The car care industry is full of chemicals for cleaning. There is no such thing as a do-it-all cleaner (no matter what you saw on some crazy infomercial!). It simply does not exist. Detailing chemicals are mixtures of different ingredients formulated to do a particular job. The most common chemical functions include surfactants, solvents, wetting agents, saponifiers and chelators.
The word surfactant is a fancy, two-bit term for any soap or detergent. Surfactant molecules are created with two compounds. One molecule is attracted to the soil itself, where the other is attracted to water. The chemical compound that’s attracted to water is called a hydrophile. Its job is to surround the soil. Likewise, the chemical compound that’s attracted to soil is called a hydrophobe. Its job is to break soil into smaller pieces so it can be surrounded by the hydrophile to be floated away.
Every cleaner needs a solvent to dissolve soil. The most common solvent is one you might not even think of: water. Some solvents, such as mineral spirits, work great on petroleum soils (like tar and grease) and may be necessary on surfaces that might be damaged by water. Other solvents that are common in car care chemicals include d-limonene (made from orange and lemon peels) and butyl. Although expensive, d-limonene is a safe solvent to use throughout the car.
Chemists modify the hydrophile and hydrophobe molecules to change the characteristics of a surfactant. For example, a surfactant that is a good detergent (detergents break a soil’s bond to a surface) will not be a good penetrating agent. Penetrating and wetting allows water to surround soil so it can be removed. As you might have now surmised, the chemist can improve the performance of a good detergent surfactant by including a second surfactant that has good wetting and penetrating qualities.
Did you know that animal fat is used in the manufacturing of soaps? Boil some pig fat, add a handful of lye, and you can make a bar of soap. The same chemical process that makes soap can be used to remove fats and oils. Chemists use agents called saponifiers (basically a strong alkaline substance) to convert fats and oils into soap. Once transformed to soap, fats and oils can be washed away with water.
Speaking of soap, have you ever noticed how much better soap does in soft water? If you’re used to hard water conditions, using a bar of soap in soft water feels much different. Hard water, which is any water that contains high concentrations of calcium, iron, magnesium and other minerals, thwarts the cleaning ability of a chemical. This is because the cleaner reacts to the minerals in hard water as soil, which uses up the cleaning agents.
To combat this problem, chemists add chelating agents to their cleaners to bind the minerals so the cleaner can go after the real soil. This is why some car wash shampoos seem to hold the suds longer than others. Good suds have very little to do with how much car shampoo you use.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Mark77 said:
Dawn is used to clean crude oil from wildlife: 25 Years of Caring
I will never understand how a dishwashing detergent that millions of people stick their hands in every day gets so demonized here on Autopia. It doesn't make your skin fall off, and it isn't going to make the rubber and plastic fall off your car.
mikebai1990
New member
Eesh, why do we always have these huge Dawn threads?? http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/77706-dawn-wash-lets-little-more-clear.html
I don't see the point of using Dawn when you have all these car soaps and polishes that you can use to strip waxes. If you need a good cleaning, mix a bit more soap into your shampoo mix, and you'll be good to go!
I don't see the point of using Dawn when you have all these car soaps and polishes that you can use to strip waxes. If you need a good cleaning, mix a bit more soap into your shampoo mix, and you'll be good to go!
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
In one of those "huge Dawn threads" one of the ChemE's "proved" to us that the ingredients and pH of Dawn are pretty much identical to those of the car wash soaps, so I wish every one would just calm down about the whole thing.