To the Zaino Police...

N

Newport Viper

New member
Lynn ( moderator)



Newport Viper, you've pretty much worn out your welcome and used up any credibility you had, in the course of this thread.



How can one, wear out their welcome? When one is asking questions?

How can you use up an credibility when you ask for others comments.



For the moment, based on several members' comments, I'm going to lock this thread. I'll leave it to the Detailing Prod forum Moderators to decide tomorrow whether to leave it locked or to open it when there's some actual information, rather than just accusations, to contribute.



I would contribute a Lab sample, if they unlock it. Seems several members don't like to get or understand facts.



Corey Bit Sparky.



Newport, you're putting gas on the fire. Nothing you have said in this thread thus far has progressed towards a reliable answer.





I am the one looking for the reliable answer!!! I am asking the questions.



BW

He said,



Bill (DETAILKING) is our in-house chemist.



I was open to listening to this persons opinion. Based on his background and expertise. I was open to take his answers as the, for lack of a better term, "gospel."



I made a statement,

The reason I will now find out if it is an oil...Is because of the contradictory claim of using Dawn to get rid of any oils as a prep.



This is cut and paste from the Z site.



"I would definitely recommend you remove the wax buildup on your paint. Just use Liquid Dawn (hand dishwashingliquid) as a car wash. It has a high alkaline content which cuts right thru carnauba wax, paraffin, silicone oils, etc. This will get your paint finish squeeky clean and wax free."



Why use Dawn as prep., if you "might"be adding more oils?



dternest

correted me and I acknowleged it.

(If you cared to follow rest of the process. You'd know that you don't apply Z2 or Z5 after washing with Dawn. The surface should be washed with Z7 prior to applying these products.)



That seems like reasonable forum disscusion to me?



Several of my tough questions, still go unanswered. Then knowing the answers that might come back, are not what some people might want to hear, the thread gets shut down.

THIS IS AMERICA, freedom of speech within the defined Autopia rules.



Some of you are very mean spirited people.

read the rules of Autopia here.

http://www.autopia.org/rules.php

Oh Lynn, maybe you should read these and at least get a warning, for your personal attack on my credibility.

Maybe step down, as a fair and impartial moderator?
 
I know what is coming.....







lockd.gif
 
Newport Viper said:
Scott that little guy is too funny!!!

I hope it won't though.

Freedom of speech within house rules....
Click to expand...



As long as the discussion doesn't get too heated and personally nasty, I think it should continue. I don't make that call though.
 
You just don't know when to quit do you?



We don't need to be reminded of the rules by the likes of you. If you want to talk about attacks on credibility, the title of this thread looks like an attack on the crediabiliy on each member you listed in your lastest rant. Whenever someone challenges your latest "fact finding" slam, they are the "Zaino police". How colorful. :rolleyes:



I would suggest you change the tone of your posts, quickly, if you wish to remain a member here.
 
Ok....here are a few things....



1. How old is that zaino sample? Zaino was reformulated back in May 2003 and the Hydrocarbon separation is not present in the new version. It's probably a true water based system now. That zaino sample you have must be a few yrs old. Remember the shelf life of zaino is about 3 yrs. Before the new formulation, I have noticed some separation as well when the product sat for long periods of time. Make sure you shake well before using.....but for best results, throw it out and get the new version....it's glossier, and easier to use.



2. Analyzing samples. I'm not sure of your background, but this is not a simple OR inexpensive task. Typically it would cost a minimum of 1500-3000 dollars to do an analysis of a product in which you know the ingredients, but just not sure of the quanities. When the ingredients are uknown, the analysis will take longer and be much more expensive. Typically a standard has to be developed first with the "known" constituents, in order to procede with the test using laboratory equipment. A 50 dollar test in my eyes would be nothing more than say testing for the presence of starch buy using Iodine and checking for the "blue/black" color. I know our lab (when we don't quote a fixed price) bills our chemists out at 150 an hour + material handling, shipping, disposal, set-up, and any materials used to perform the tests. If the outfit is not used or experienced in dealing with automotive polish products, I feel you would be wasting your time.



3. Just because you see that top layer, it doesn't mean it is "oil." Like it has been said before, any difference in density will cause a mixture to separate in non-soluble compounds. Ever make a black and tan (guiness / Bass) or a black russian (kahlua / vodka)??? The same principle applies. Some other compounds that are not soluble in water and will form 2 liquid phases are: Benzene, Propanol, Butanol, TEA (triethylamine),etc,etc.



I really don't know what is trying to be proved here. Black Regal has some excellent points, and I agree with the poor reasoning comment. I am all for discussion of observations of difference products and I felt that this thread was off to an interesting start, but if ones only agenda is to try to bash a product, find another board to do that on...........
 
All of Newport Viper's inquires have been answered in the previous post. It may not be what he wanted to read but they were answered fully and honestly.



Newport Viper, I would still like to know why you are persuing this quest. At his point, your credibility has been damaged tremendously and whatever the outcome of your "analysis", I don't believe anyone will believe that the results would be anything but biased.



David
 
DETAILKING said:
Ok....here are a few things....



1. How old is that zaino sample? Zaino was reformulated back in May 2003 and the Hydrocarbon separation is not present in the new version. It's probably a true water based system now. That zaino sample you have must be a few yrs old. Remember the shelf life of zaino is about 3 yrs. Before the new formulation, I have noticed some separation as well when the product sat for long periods of time. Make sure you shake well before using.....but for best results, throw it out and get the new version....it's glossier, and easier to use.



2. Analyzing samples. I'm not sure of your background, but this is not a simple OR inexpensive task. Typically it would cost a minimum of 1500-3000 dollars to do an analysis of a product in which you know the ingredients, but just not sure of the quanities. When the ingredients are uknown, the analysis will take longer and be much more expensive. Typically a standard has to be developed first with the "known" constituents, in order to procede with the test using laboratory equipment. A 50 dollar test in my eyes would be nothing more than say testing for the presence of starch buy using Iodine and checking for the "blue/black" color. I know our lab (when we don't quote a fixed price) bills our chemists out at 150 an hour + material handling, shipping, disposal, set-up, and any materials used to perform the tests. If the outfit is not used or experienced in dealing with automotive polish products, I feel you would be wasting your time.



3. Just because you see that top layer, it doesn't mean it is "oil." Like it has been said before, any difference in density will cause a mixture to separate in non-soluble compounds. Ever make a black and tan (guiness / Bass) or a black russian (kahlua / vodka)??? The same principle applies. Some other compounds that are not soluble in water and will form 2 liquid phases are: Benzene, Propanol, Butanol, TEA (triethylamine),etc,etc.



I really don't know what is trying to be proved here. Black Regal has some excellent points, and I agree with the poor reasoning comment. I am all for discussion of observations of difference products and I felt that this thread was off to an interesting start, but if ones only agenda is to try to bash a product, find another board to do that on...........
Click to expand...



Another excellent post.:xyxthumbs
 
This all started months ago on the VCA site.



Newport had attended a Meguiar's Tech Session and was pleased with the results. His original post was something like "No More Zaino, No More Zaino". There was some discussion, some good information and some misinformation.



He does seem to have a penchant for trashing Zaino, and now has posts on at least two different forums doing so.



As far as moderation is concerned...I have no problem with it...here or on the VCA site. In the past, on the VCA site, I had commented in threads that were deleted. I got an e-mail explaining why.



It should be remembered that these sites are moderated to keep them from becoming "this rules-that su*ks" AOL type chatrooms. To keep some type of decorum. If you don't like the rules or the moderation...don't use the forum.
 
Ok....here are a few things....



1. How old is that zaino sample? Zaino was reformulated back in May 2003 and the Hydrocarbon separation is not present in the new version. It's probably a true water based system now. That zaino sample you have must be a few yrs old. Remember the shelf life of zaino is about 3 yrs. Before the new formulation, I have noticed some separation as well when the product sat for long periods of time. Make sure you shake well before using.....but for best results, throw it out and get the new version....it's glossier, and easier to use.



2. Analyzing samples. I'm not sure of your background, but this is not a simple OR inexpensive task. Typically it would cost a minimum of 1500-3000 dollars to do an analysis of a product in which you know the ingredients, but just not sure of the quanities. When the ingredients are uknown, the analysis will take longer and be much more expensive. Typically a standard has to be developed first with the "known" constituents, in order to procede with the test using laboratory equipment. A 50 dollar test in my eyes would be nothing more than say testing for the presence of starch buy using Iodine and checking for the "blue/black" color. I know our lab (when we don't quote a fixed price) bills our chemists out at 150 an hour + material handling, shipping, disposal, set-up, and any materials used to perform the tests. If the outfit is not used or experienced in dealing with automotive polish products, I feel you would be wasting your time.



3. Just because you see that top layer, it doesn't mean it is "oil." Like it has been said before, any difference in density will cause a mixture to separate in non-soluble compounds. Ever make a black and tan (guiness / Bass) or a black russian (kahlua / vodka)??? The same principle applies. Some other compounds that are not soluble in water and will form 2 liquid phases are: Benzene, Propanol, Butanol, TEA (triethylamine),etc,etc.



I really don't know what is trying to be proved here. Black Regal has some excellent points, and I agree with the poor reasoning comment. I am all for discussion of observations of difference products and I felt that this thread was off to an interesting start, but if ones only agenda is to try to bash a product, find another board to do that on...........
 
Sometimes I forget that I am reading/posting on a forum that is dedicated to detailing.



I mean seriously, it is wax and wash mitts.



These debates can be fun and educational, but I think we should all remember that we are talking about wax. Just wax.



That is my 2 cents anyway.
 
I do not see a biased moderation. What I did see was that you were looking for answers where you were not going to find them, you knew it, and you persisted to prod at a situation that was going no where. Now, I believe you are more intelligent then that.



I don't understand your motive, and I don't understand where you think you can target members here: especially moderators. Usually they work very transparently. Rarely does Lynn or another moderator have to lock threads here. Very very rarely. Now you were kind of rude and pushed people's buttons so the topic can't be discussed. Is that good research?



You did not approach the situation with respect and therefore, the thread was locked. It was not because it was anti-zaino. We all saw your point, you didn't have to shoot it at us 5 more times with a canon. Please try to use more tact in the future. :)
 
I don't think any of this is going to change anyone's mind anyway. Those who like Zaino will continue to use it and those who like other products will continue to use those.



At this point, unless it can be proved that Zaino does contain oils (and I am not sure it really matters much if you like the product) I think this topic should rest.
 
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