This "dirty" customer is trying to burn me...

P

pinoyheat551

New member
Yesterday i had a customer that came in for a 6 hour detail at around 2 pm (he came late, suppose to come at 1). He had a 2004 bmw x3. After the detail, the battery died. So, we jump started the vehicle. At around 8 pm, we finished jump starting his suv and he goes home.



Today at around 5 pm, he calls me up and says - hey man, you broke my instrument panel. Apparently, the odometer, fuel gauge, and the rest are not working. Is this something that i could've caused or is this something that he broke? First off, remember he was late so i forgot to do a vehicle check list. On top of that, i did not even notice that his panel wasn't working.



Could opening the doors for x amount of hours mess up the relay for those sensors? I dont know if he is trying to burn me for something that he already had. Also, it was 8 pm when he left and it was getting kinda dark. He should've noticed the panel wasn't working but he did not call me until 5 pm today. Kinda weird and shady to miss that right away. Especially in the evening when you have to look at the speedometer.



What do you guys think?
 
It was probably the jump starting that did it. Modern cars are very sensitive to bad jump starts. i sure hope he was the one connecting wires.
 
Before you accuse your customer of "burning" you..maybe the jump starting caused the panel circut to short. It does sound strange that he did not notice this when driving home at 8 pm.
 
search for jumping a bmw online and figure out if that was the cause (if its happened to others as well). Then take it from there



I did have a clients car battery die with just 15 minutes of the doors open while I was vacuuming and wiping the windows. I didnt have jumper cables on me, so I handled the AAA transaction since "it was my fault"...his battery was almost dead as it was and was only holding a low charge, not a full one and it was a little over 3 years old...whatever, I never placed the blame on his battery, but sucked it up and burned a AAA use for the year.
 
IME if you burn something out with a bad jump on a modern BMW it will not start, period. I've seen a few "overcharges", shorts, etc and they are all obvious right away and in most cases the vehicle will not be drivable. As an aside, a 2004 should not be losing battery charge during a 6 hour detail if all you did was have the doors open. I know for my 3 series there is currently a TSB for the battery (wont hold a charge), wonder if something similar for x3s?



As I get older and do this more I am kind of of the mind that a client should bring the car to a detailer in good working order (in all respects). If the x3s battery was low, wouldnt hold a charge, etc, the client should have informed you ahead of time since part of your job involves running electronics (lights) for long periods without the car running. If the battery is dead at the end of the job, imo, it is their responsibility.
 
toyotaguy said:
I didnt have jumper cables on me, so I handled the AAA transaction since "it was my fault"...his battery was almost dead as it was and was only holding a low charge, not a full one and it was a little over 3 years old...whatever, I never placed the blame on his battery, but sucked it up and burned a AAA use for the year.
Click to expand...



Actually a great idea, let them be liable. I know on my ML, if you don't follow the correct jumping procedure, you run a VERY high risk of blowing the ECU. IIRC you CANNOT have the key in on position when you connect the battery, otherwise 1k ECU goes poof.
 
Unfortunately, for something like this I would just tell the customer to take the car to the dealer, and have it checked out. You should call the dealer first though, explain the situation, and maybe the car just needs to run through some cycles and it will work again. If you pay the dealer fee, and get it fixed you will have a customer for life, because he knows that you will always take care of any problems that may arise.





John
 
My guess is it's a simple blown fuse for the instrument cluster. Check F1, F34, F35 5A fuses. We have random fuses blow after charging/jumping a battery every once in a while.
 
This may be a long shot, but could you (or the customer) have turned the dash light dimmer knob thing all the way down? I know on some vehicles when you turn the dimmer dial all the way down you can barely see the lights?



Did you jump start using another vehicle or a jump pack?
 
Unfortunately, there is no knob to dim the instrument cluster.



I used my car to jump his suv.



Also, i did detail the motor but the electricals were covered...



I think i will just have to pay for his suv to get repaired. Lesson learned. Starting today, i dont care if it takes me 10 to 15 minutes, i will have to really check the customers vehicle. I will check for the navigation, instrument panel, lights, turn signals, dings, dents, scratches and disclose them all in a check sheet and have them sign it. This will prevent scum bags from putting blame on you. It may take 10 to 15 minutes out of the detail, but it could save you thousands.



I detailed a AUDI S5 about 2 months ago, the customer said i broke one of his light sensors, i told him that he has to prove that i broke it or else i am not paying for anything. Good thing was, he couldn't. He never called or came back to the shop.



The bottom line is that there are customers that are "dirty" in this business. The minute that we touch the car, we can ultimately be blamed for it. Do a damage disclosure to save your behind...
 
pinoyheat551 said:
Do a damage disclosure to save your behind...
Click to expand...



The damage disclosure can be a double edged sword. Unless you absolutely check everything (and you can't), they could end up using that against you.
 
Here is a thread discussing the instrument cluster issue: Instrument cluster problems - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums





From a BMW Site:



Jump Starting Your BMW



Jump-starting BMW vehicles should be avoided, as it may cause damage to certain electrical components. The electrical components found in BMWs (and most other cars) are designed to handle up to 15 volts for brief periods only. Jump-starting equipment found on some tow trucks operates at 18 volts or as high as 24 volts. Disconnecting the battery, then charging it, is the recommended alternative.



When jump-starting is the only option, you can take these steps to ensure the vehicle's electrical components are not damaged:



Ensure that the vehicle being jump-started and the vehicle used to jump-start are not touching each other. Ground points exist on some bumpers.



Ensure that both vehicles have batteries of the same voltage and of approximately the same ampere-hour rating (to guarantee you'll have enough power to jump start the dead car).



Connect the positive jumper cable to the positive (B+ junction) post on the dead battery, and then to the positive terminal on the vehicle providing the jump-start.



Connect the negative jumper cable to a chassis ground on both vehicles. This protects sensitive electronic components from damaging voltage surges by using the damping action of the chassis ground.



Jump-start the vehicle. Before disconnecting the jumper cables, switch on: the heater fan at highest speed, the rear window defroster and the low beam headlights. Activating these reduces the voltage surge at the moment the jumper cables are disconnected.



Disconnect the negative cable, then the positive. Maintaining this order ensure that any momentary arcing that might occur is away from the battery and the engine compartment, where flammable gases may develop.



Remember, failure to follow these procedures may result in damage to sensitive electrical components. Damage is a virtual certainty if performed with equipment that delivers over 15 volts.
 
[SS]Shooter said:
Here is a thread discussing the instrument cluster issue: Instrument cluster problems - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums





From a BMW Site:



Jump Starting Your BMW



Jump-starting BMW vehicles should be avoided, as it may cause damage to certain electrical components. The electrical components found in BMWs (and most other cars) are designed to handle up to 15 volts for brief periods only. Jump-starting equipment found on some tow trucks operates at 18 volts or as high as 24 volts. Disconnecting the battery, then charging it, is the recommended alternative.



When jump-starting is the only option, you can take these steps to ensure the vehicle's electrical components are not damaged:



Ensure that the vehicle being jump-started and the vehicle used to jump-start are not touching each other. Ground points exist on some bumpers.



Ensure that both vehicles have batteries of the same voltage and of approximately the same ampere-hour rating (to guarantee you'll have enough power to jump start the dead car).



Connect the positive jumper cable to the positive (B+ junction) post on the dead battery, and then to the positive terminal on the vehicle providing the jump-start.



Connect the negative jumper cable to a chassis ground on both vehicles. This protects sensitive electronic components from damaging voltage surges by using the damping action of the chassis ground.



Jump-start the vehicle. Before disconnecting the jumper cables, switch on: the heater fan at highest speed, the rear window defroster and the low beam headlights. Activating these reduces the voltage surge at the moment the jumper cables are disconnected.



Disconnect the negative cable, then the positive. Maintaining this order ensure that any momentary arcing that might occur is away from the battery and the engine compartment, where flammable gases may develop.



Remember, failure to follow these procedures may result in damage to sensitive electrical components. Damage is a virtual certainty if performed with equipment that delivers over 15 volts.
Click to expand...





Great info to know! Thanks for sharing!
 
BMW's have huge batterys that usually last for 6 years. I have never had a battery last more than 3 years until I got a BMW. The point is that the battery was probably shorted or bad.

Second when you jump start a car always wear saftey glasses. I learned this one the hard way with a trip to the hospital.

Third your liability in this case is usually limited to the cost of you detail. So if you charged $400 and you gave him all his money back, you would be even. Belive me fixing an IP for a BMW is going to run you in the thousands

Forth if you jumped from your car the voltage would be no different than the BMW would normally see. Probably just a blown fuse



Last newer BMWs have a adjustment for the brightness embedded in the software that is accessed on the left blinker lever on the stalk. You might check if it is turned down.



If the battery failed that easy it is bad. Looks like to is not your problem to me.

BMW X3 3.0i My 2005 X3 would not start this morning and after - JustAnswer



See this thread it has happend to others



17000 DIGITAL INSTRUMENT PANEL

Bulletin No: SIB-62-04-06

Date of Bulletin: 06/21/2010



Summary Description:

BMW: INSTRUMENT CLUSTER-FAILURE OF DISPLAYS/FUNCTIONS. TOTAL OR PARTIAL FAILURE OF DISPLAYS OR FUNCTIONS IN THE INSTRUMENT CLUSTER. THE DISPLAYS OR FUNCTIONS START WORKING AGAIN AFTER THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN PARKED (SLEEP MODE). INTERNAL E



There is a service bulletin out for this issue, covered under warranty. Here is the pertinent info:



SI B 62 10 06 Instruments

February 2007

Technical Service



SUBJECT

Instrument Cluster Back Lighting Fails Sporadically

MODEL

E46 (3 Series)

E83 (X3)

E85 (Z4)

Vehicles produced from August 31, 2003 to July 27, 2006.

SITUATION

The customer may experience brief failure of the instrument cluster back lighting, air condition control or radio. The failure will last between 10-15 seconds.

CAUSE

Light Switching Center (LSZ)

CORRECTION

Replace the LSZ with updated parts as listed below. Please compare with EPC before carrying out the replacement.



BMW X3:DIGITAL INSTRUMENT PANEL





BMW X3 2005 Safety Report #SI-B-12-04-05

BMW X3 2005 technical service bulletin was issued Nov 01, 2010.BMW X3 2005 had a failed DIGITAL INSTRUMENT PANEL . BMW: CHECK ENGINE LAMP ILLUMINATED AND/OR VEHICLE OVERHEATS. MODELS E83, E85, E86, E70, E90, E91, E92, E93, E60 AND E61. *PE UPDATED 5/24/11. *PE .



TSB Number: 621006 NHTSA Number: 10021346 TSB Date: February 1, 2007 Date Added to File: April 5, 2007

Failing Component:

Digital Instrument Panel

Summary:

Instrument cluster back lighting fails sporadically. BMW. Models, 3 series, x3, and z4.



Sounds to me that it is a BMW problem after my research
 
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