The Wax Test...... NEW!!

Tortuga said:
I'm relatively new here, so feel free to correct me, but here's my understanding of the "big picture"...



The folks at TheWaxTest.com were faced by multiple lawsuits. The manufacturers didn't like results and sued them. They weren't making any money from the site and were going to have to defend themselves in court - and that costs money!



Their lawyers said that they were clearly protected by the First Amendment but they'd still face large legal fees to defend themselves in court. In addition, they'd also face travel costs because the lawsuits were filed out of state.



Due to all these factors, they shut down their website.



I imagine that a good portion of the money these guys make is going into savings to cover their inevitable legal costs.
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Is this true??? Can anyone verify this?



That is ridiculous. Hollywood never sues any newspapers over bad reviews by critics. Neither do restaraunts for bad restaraunt reviews.



That makes me mad, but not mad enough to give them $15 for what I like learning from testing and reading from other fanatics here at Autopia. Sure, it was a great resource when it was free on-line, but $15 is simply too much.
 
Tortuga said:
...Permits are free and granted to virtually anyone, but they take three weeks to process! To stop protestors, the county schedules public hearings two weeks in advance. Sure you can file for a permit to protest at that event, but it won't be processed until a week after the hearing....
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That stinks. Oddly enough I'm usually on the other side of many protests I see, but I fully support the right to protest and think it's a necessity in a "free society". I imagine such a thing wouldn't stand up as being "constitutional" in the supreme court, if you're so inclined to test it. Being a non-resident and not a civil litigator though I'm not sure. UCLA? :nixweiss





Also there was another post late last night where Tortuga's is now... can someone enlighten me where it went? (PM?)
 
I cannot verify it, but I think I can shed some light on the differences. "Hollywood" or production companies and restaurants do not sue publications because those magazines or newspapers have lawyers just as big as the movie studios. It is not worth their effort to sue another large company with lawyers. It is much easier to pick on little guy who likely does not have a legal department and has to pay legal fees out of his relatively shallow pockets. The company's feelings are that this guy will blow his load on a lawyer to cite his First Amendment rights. These fees will break this guy and force him to shut his site down. I don't see how a judge would not throw the case out to begin with, but it creates problems for the unbiased reviewer who is doing us a huge favor.



Just my opinion.





Chuckmotor said:






Is this true??? Can anyone verify this?



That is ridiculous. Hollywood never sues any newspapers over bad reviews by critics. Neither do restaraunts for bad restaraunt reviews.



That makes me mad, but not mad enough to give them $15 for what I like learning from testing and reading from other fanatics here at Autopia. Sure, it was a great resource when it was free on-line, but $15 is simply too much.
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4DSC said:
Being a non-resident and not a civil litigator though I'm not sure. UCLA? :nixweiss

Also there was another post late last night where Tortuga's is now... can someone enlighten me where it went? (PM?)
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As a UCLA alum, let me just say that there were protests and demonstrations going on at that campus on an almost daily basis. Don't even get me started on what happened during the Persian Gulf war.
 
Can't you sue people for Slander?



Then why couldn't the wax companies have sued thewaxtest.com for Libel? Same thing but communicated differently. First ammendment wouldn't protect you from that.
 
Not exactly Intel.



Here's something I sliced from a website:



"Libel" involves the publishing of a falsehood that harms someone. Slander is the same doctrine applied to the spoken word. Collectively, they are referred to as "defamation". Both are a matter of state laws, which usually (not always) require that the falsehood be intentional.



In New York Times v. Sullivan, the Supreme Court held that the First Amendment requires that, before a public official can recover damages for a defamatory statement, he must prove it was made with "actual malice", even if state laws otherwise allow recovery for negligent defamation. The Court has since expanded this to cover not only public officials but "public figures", including individuals who involve themselves in controversies.



So a car care products mfr would have to prove in court that thewaxtest.com intentionally set out to harm them by publishing results. That's pretty darned hard to do in the USA. Look at Consumer Reports for example. They take on some of the world's largest corporations whose products are dangerous or do not operate as designed or marketed. Yeah, CR has good attorneys. But they rarely lose a case because they can always demonstrate that their testing was not done to harm a person or company.



Frankly, Intel, you're personal attacks of Auto Int can be construed as defamatory. They might be able to make the case that your comments are intended to harm the reputation of Auto Int and can take you to court over it. If I were you I'd worry less about what's going on with thewaxtest.org and worry more about what I say in a public forum - - S'ing your C, and all that stuff, ya know?
 
Wow! I guess we have a way of causing quite a stir, eh??



To clarify - we were not formally threatened with any lawsuits, but it was clear that several manufacturer's were not happy that someone dared to pull the curtain away and spill the beans.



Remember this: I consider all of you my friends. I would not start attacking anyone for their efforts or the fruits of their labors. I thought long and hard about how to respond, and I think that the less I say, the better.



I've been spending (on average) around 25 hours per week on the tests and the magazine. This is on top of the hours I spend on my normal job, which as most of you know, has me travelling between California and Arkansas. I'm involved with the tests because I love to know as much as I can about products - believe me, with as much as it costs to publish a small magazine (10,000 copies) we're not making any money at all. There's a good reason that Car & Driver, et al is nearly 50% advertisements - magazines are darned expensive! But, a magazine was the only way to reach the general public - sure, thewaxtest.com got a ton of hits, but a lot of those hits were repeat hits from my pals at Autopia and the general public had no idea what "thewaxtest.com" was.



I apologize for causing the stir, but this just goes to prove how history repeats itself. Check out this link for a refresher:



<a href = "http://www.autopia-carport.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4197&highlight=thewaxtest.com">Dislike + Like + Missing + Dislike



Ok, that's it - I'm writing this from hp (on my way to a meeting!)...sorry if it's incoherent (not enough sleep).
 
Geeky,



Good post. I went back and reread this entire thread from the very beginning to see what kind of comments were made and also to see if we really were being unfair to your website. With the exception of one person (maybe two), I think the comments made here are nothing to really complain about. It's very unfortunate that one loudmouth here (who has also managed to flame another company and annoy other forum members) with his numerous posts ridiculing your efforts has totally changed the complexion of this otherwise normal thread to something that would understandably be quite annoying & disappointing to you.



No need to apologize.



Tony
 
Yeah, I don't really understand why thewaxtest is being slammed. If you think you already know everything that the book/report/magazine contains, here's an idea: don't buy it. Or if you're simply not interested in the results of the testing, here's another breakthrough idea: forget the test even exists.



But to complain that a product that obviously took many many hours of work (not to mention raw materials) to produce is not being given away for free....uh, seems pretty ignorant. Hmm - when I went to university I don't remember textbooks being given away for nothing. Even the books that I thought we're wastes of paper (after paying $90 each for them) I had to pay for.



That's about all I have to add on top of Bret's comments....
 
bretfraz said:
[BFrankly, Intel, you're personal attacks of Auto Int can be construed as defamatory. They might be able to make the case that your comments are intended to harm the reputation of Auto Int and can take you to court over it. If I were you I'd worry less about what's going on with thewaxtest.org and worry more about what I say in a public forum - - S'ing your C, and all that stuff, ya know? [/B]
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ummm... Not really counting I'm not spreading any false rumors. Just saying that I don't like them. That is an opinion and the first ammendment saies I can spread that as long as I express it is my opinion.



Edit: Why do you think microsoft can't do anything about the webpage F^^kmicrosoft.com (Yes, it is a real webpage, try it)? Because they aren't spreading any false rumors so there is nothing that can be done about them.
 
kellyrudnick said:
I bet meguiar's gold class & #26 ranked high.
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#26 did well in the midpriced catagory in the first round of tests and GC had a good initial impression, but it didn't last very long. If I remember right, Collinite won in the midpriced catagory.
 
AS I HAVE READ THROUGH THIS THREAD I HAVE SEEN MANY THINGS THAT ARE OUT OF HAND, PLEASE DROP THE _______ VS AUTOTINT CRAP! Take it up in PM's or Email~ we dont need it here!:nono
 
Redcar GUY said:
AS I HAVE READ THROUGH THIS THREAD I HAVE SEEN MANY THINGS THAT ARE OUT OF HAND, PLEASE DROP THE _______ VS AUTOTINT CRAP! Take it up in PM's or Email~ we dont need it here!:nono
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You're right but I think the whole thread should just be killed and deleted. It never served any purpose.
 
Intel486 said:




You're right but I think the whole thread should just be killed and deleted. It never served any purpose.
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<img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0MwAAAGoS59Zz*KOVE8rxvRqmWhOT4x471AIi8xz41NWBOQzON2YWfe7t6zmcYqxXMtOtOVLkn9D3RC0TElq0AQ/werd.gif" <img src="http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0NQAAADITdf!qA*c4GtLmn9vIRjOdkEo7NiY6mZvkaVuYY2sqdr6IxQ5hKdJaubpq1WLSBwlktho8xVYcUcdQng/closed.gif"
 
Wow! Serious vintage Autopia there. The wax test was going on right around the time I discovered Autopia I recall all of Geeky Steve's tests
 
Gee, kinda surprised I didn't post anything on that thread back when it was first active :think: Maybe I decided to just skip all that :argue



I felt I got my $15 worth out of the Waxtest, not that I really learned anything or changed my opinions any. I did think they needed a little better copy-edit job though, it had the feel of some "gotta get this thing out yesterday, no time..." about it or something, like they didn't even have time to read it through before sending it to be printed.
 
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