The Problem with Lexus

I think the quality issues have a *lot* to do with not being used to the volume that they are having to produce these days. The sales have done nothing but rise over the last 15 years or so (give or take here and there) and when the adjustments are not done properly, quality suffers. This is true of every make of any product.
 
To me, the media has ruined the image of many manufacturers. Mercedes being a prime example.



I don't think they'll ever be known for world class automobiles by the young population again- just their ability to accomodate 22" wheels.
 
i think toyota did a great job with lexus many people do use the name lexus in the same sentence with mb and bmw. however lexus also has the image of being a boring car to drive althought they are starting to spice things up a bit. Acura and Infiniti still has some catching up to do. i my self is a honda/acura fan and i would like to see acura move up in brand image. it is odd that toyota can get away with sharing platforms with lexus but when honda does it; its called a 50k accord
 
Funny thing is in Los Angeles, it doesn't matter what it is, somebody will put some too big wheels on it. It's a *much* more common site to see the 7** BMW's with the big wheels on it and some *really* young looking guys driving them. Same phenomenon with the 6** BMW's.
 
drock said:
.....it is odd that toyota can get away with sharing platforms with lexus but when honda does it; its called a 50k accord
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Isn't it!? I think the reason why though is that Toyota designs the cars for the Lexus and then moves them down market to Toyota instead of making a Honda an Acura with some cool features.
 
I remember the ES250 was derided by the automotive press for being a rebadged Camry. Lexus learned their lesson early.



Although you can see some similarities, and there are a lot more shared parts than some Lexus owners would like to admit, Toyota has done a better job of distinguishing the sheetmetal on the Lexus & Toyota cars. Too many times Acura hasn't done enough redesign of the sheet metal to truly differentiate the car...even the big Acuras looked like stretched out Hondas. I do have to say the new RL is very, very nice...but you still see the Honda in it.
 
I don't think they should ditch the family looks totally but I do see where you're coming from. The one "but why" car I see in the Lexus line is the LX. It's tough to tell it from the Land Cruiser without a good look.



The TL and RL look a LOT less Accord than they truly are. Consider this, the Honda: Accord, Odyssey, Pilot, Ridgeline, Acura: TL, MDX and RL **ALL* come from the same basic platform. While it does well for economics, it sucks for originality.
 
drock said:
it is odd that toyota can get away with sharing platforms with lexus but when honda does it; its called a 50k accord
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Hey, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...



It's not that I don't like the RL, I think it's a good car, but while I was driving one I kept thinking, "this thing seems awfully familiar, oh yeah--I've driven one before!"



This doesn't happen in the Lexus lineup. Granted the Camry and ES have always felt similar in dynamics, but there isn't as much a price difference between the two.
 
lexus infinti Benz BMW

es300 i30 n/a n/a

is300 g35/45 C-class 3 series

gs300/430 m35/45 e-class 5 series

ls430 q45 s-class?? 7 series



I don't think you can draw a dotted line from a lexus to a porsche...but to sum up my point lexus is to MB as infiniti is to BMW...lexus/mb ultra lux, solid, reliable - infinti/bmw sport lux, maybe slighlty less reliable due to emphasis on sporting nature
 
mrzee, if we go along with that(which is pretty much what it is) then we have to say that Lexus needs some hot rods as MBZ has MORE than their share of them. Their isn't a single AMG car that I wouldn't want parked in my driveway.
 
" don't think you can draw a dotted line from a lexus to a porsche...but to sum up my point lexus is to MB as infiniti is to BMW...lexus/mb ultra lux, solid, reliable - infinti/bmw sport lux, maybe slighlty less reliable due to emphasis on sporting nature"



Actually Benz is the most unreliable maker in this segment right now as everyones numbers show.



Lexus actually considered what GA suggested earlier-building an BMW "M"-like division to add performance. They decided instead to build a supercar, the LFA model, to reenergize the brand.



The new GS is awesome...I just think they need to add some more power or the consumer will be tempted to look at other speedier alternatives.
 
currently MB is in the relaibilty dog house(but this is a fairly recent occurance, ie new ownership, perhaps the cause?)...but if we're going for only "current" reliability we'd have to include Kia in this mix...
 
mrzeee said:
currently MB is in the relaibilty dog house(but this is a fairly recent occurance, ie new ownership, perhaps the cause?)...but if we're going for only "current" reliability we'd have to include Kia in this mix...
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What new ownership? MBZ did the acquiring. I think the reliability issues are from pushing the technology envelope(all the onboard wiz bangs) and not being used to producing the volume of cars that they now have to produce to meet demand.



All of the owner quality surveys can really be taken with a grain of salt to some extent. Some people are conditioned to having cars with problems and are less likely to report them and some people have moved from trouble free cars into cars that are slightly problematic and report every little thing. The survey's are only as good as the person that fills it out.
 
I don't agree with the original post, I think the base GS at 0-60 in 6.9sec is pretty fast. Remember, base model cars of others like the BMW 3/5 series, Mercedes benz C/E-class, are not faster than that. You are comparing their top level trims with the lexus GS base model. If you want to be fair, you would have to use the GS430 as a comparison, and that is definitely competitive at least in the 0-60 times you are interested in.
 
SpoiledMan- I always thought Chrysler bought MB... I guess this isn't the case?



If MB did buy Chrysler, I have to wonder, why? What did Chrysler have that Mb wanted to better their own vehicles? Certainly, if they wanted to advance themselves they could have found a better alternative to Chrysler.



BTW, let's not forget Audi's position in these ranks. They have the flagship A8 W-12 that contends with the S600 and 760. Down to the TT's and RS-4/6's for super cars. I personally much prefer Audi's role in the media and their public image much, much more than BMW, Lexus, and MB. They haven't yet been tainted by the country's youth in music videos and tacky used car lots. Never had I seen a 2- year old in a $100,000 A8 thumping down the street and weaving through rush hour traffic. Not to mention, Audi makes a damn good car.
 
Chrysler has mass market knowledge. Makes them attractive to a company looking to grow sales. The new 300 Chrysler is a *lot* of E Class and because of that, some R&D money has been spread out over more units.



Audi does make some nice and some fast cars but they have yet to fully put their reputation of unintended acceleration behind them. I also don't think the reason you don't see an Audi in a rap video is because Audi isn't a supporter. It's the cool factor of having the BMW or MBZ.



When it comes down to it, MBZ has the most hot rods of all of them. The 65 cars are rumored to be capable of 1000 ft/lbs but there isn't a tranny available to deal with the torque.
 
SpoiledMan said:
It's the cool factor of having the BMW or MBZ.
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Exactly!



Now if you'll excuse me, this 15 year old has to go wash and apply another coat of UPP to his SC400 which was bought used from a reputable auto broker because he liked the car, not the badge on the hood.:xyxthumbs
 
I do think the IS and ES are very underpowered. I do understand's Steve's point about part throttle power and Lexus does a good job on that but if you need to beat the car next to you to the on ramp, you need full throttle power.
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I've never driven the IS but the ES is definately underpowered. Most of the time its fine but you can feel it strain on grades and when trying to pass at high speed on the highway. The new ES for 07 should have the 3.5l from the Avalon though so that should help.



The new GS300 feels a lot peppier than the ES though, even for only having 30 more hp and the one I drove was an AWD model which is slower.
 
My sister has an IS and while it is no race car it moves along the way and handles nicely(I make sure it keeps some sticky tires on it). The 5 speed auto helps it out somewhat. There are a number of IS's on the plus side of 500hp with the help of some Supra parts!:D
 
GoodnClean said:
I've never driven the IS but the ES is definately underpowered. Most of the time its fine but you can feel it strain on grades and when trying to pass at high speed on the highway. The new ES for 07 should have the 3.5l from the Avalon though so that should help.



The new GS300 feels a lot peppier than the ES though, even for only having 30 more hp and the one I drove was an AWD model which is slower.
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Or they could try to make it lighter. :o
 
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