The most important factor when choosing a car

minerigger- Heh heh, even my Old BodyStyle Tahoe is no longer supported properly, and GM built a gazillion GMT400 vehicles! I had to use a Dorman inner doorlatch the last time, and my pal who also has one says his lasted about 18 months.

We`ll see how long I can get OEM parts for my Crown Vic, they built a lot of those too, but Ford just doesn`t care any more than GM or Audi does. Already stuff that`s NA for that one too :(

It will be interesting to see how the Ford cars parts supply lasts now that they cut all of there cars except for the Mustang and an electric vehicle. Hopefully they continue to support their previous owners and have parts available.
 
Anybody here ever buy a vehicle based on their Driver`s Training?

In hindsight, after my wife and I did Driving Schools in the `90s (following a fender-bender...realized we could be much better drivers so !off to school! for a few summers), I should`ve bought cars like the Schools used and set `em up like the cars we drove there; but noooo I had to have something "better" :o Finally learned my lesson and after being trained in Caprices I stuck with those until I got *really* trained in Crown Vics. Now I`m all about that car, leaving my "much better" sedans sit in the garage most of the time. That`s part of why I like the OBS Tahoe, I was trained in an OBS Suburban and know what the vehicle will do in ways I would *not* know in a "better" SUV (sold both the "better" ones with no regrets). Probably wouldn`t matter since "better vehicles" (presumably) do things better, but I like knowing the Real World Limits of the vehicle-driver combo and being confident that I`ll instantly do the right thing with "unconscious competence" in an emergent situation. (I`m a firm believer in the Two Second Rule.)

Heh heh, I`ve reached for a column shifter that wasn`t there in the Audis a few times...I`ve just become programmed that way. Gotta watch that, took me forever to *lose* the automatic Threshold Braking, used to do that instinctively in those emergent situations due to training in pre-ABS cars and it cost me when learning ABS cars (drove the VDI staff nuts my first tour). Under stress we revert to our Training.

Also, thinking back to those [silly cars] I had for so long, I simply cannot enjoy a truly High Performance Car on the street. My Porsches, the Mallett...I simply didn`t enjoy driving them around at 4/10 and by the time I was remotely having fun I was in "car impounded, driver in custody" territory and an impounded car isn`t gonna be Autopian by the time ya get it back. (Also, I spent enough years, yeah...years...with a suspended license that I simply won`t risk a serious traffic offense.)

minerigger- Yeah, I oughta DIY my research (if not the wrenching :o ) for the Tahoe the same as I do for the Crown Vic, but eh... one of these days I`ll just admit that my vehicles are basically just appliances to me any more, and I wanna have others do all that [stuff]; the Detailing is more than enough for Yours Truly.

But yeah, one thing I really like about both those vehicle is that I *understand* them, know how stuff works..no inscrutable black box systems like the Audis have.

Lonnie said:
To me, the economics (AKA, personal income and expenses) of an individual will play THE biggest factor in what vehicle they will drive and why

Different experience here, I see/know a scad of people who can`t *IMO* really afford what they drive. Seems like everybody with a Credit Rating is driving an exotic these days. But I guess I define "what can be afforded" differently from most people..

It will be interesting to see how the Ford cars parts supply lasts now that they cut all of there cars except for the Mustang and an electric vehicle...

Yeah, that basically took other Fords right off my list. Too bad as I have a Ford dealer with a great service dept. (though they`re a long ways away).
 
I`m a little late to this party, but here`s my criteria which I apply to those vehicles in my price range and form factor.

1) Fun to drive. Too many boring, soggy, sloppy cars on the road today, and life it to short to spend time in them. The car must be quick, handle well, and be responsive on all driver interfaces (i.e. brakes, steering, throttle). For me, this automatically rules out all SUV`s and trucks
2) Comfortable. It`s hard to love and enjoy spending time in a car if the interior ergonomics and the seats are all wrong for your body type. I will also throw ride quality into this, but I can tolerate a pretty stiff ride. There is a difference between stiff and "brittle".
3) Build quality. This has nothing to do with price point and all about how well it`s been put together and the materials used. Modern Maserati`s I`ve seen are total junk in this regard, while Mazda is hitting it out of the park on most of their vehicles build in the last 2~3 years.
4) Always remember #1!
5) Always remember #1!

Some other thoughts from my perspective:

- I don`t get hung up on hp numbers. The total performance package means much more to me. I`ve driven light cars with lower power and found them to be more fun than a heavy car with much more power. Also, the way the power is delivered makes a big deal. I drove one car in particular in which the automaker either lied, or they build terrible engines.

- Manual transmissions. I have never owned and daily driven a car with an automatic in my 30 years behind the wheel. However, after having a fantastic time on a test drive flogging a BMW 340 M-Sport with the ZF auto and paddles, I`m a little more open minded. Not all auto`s are created equal, but I can say I`d drive a BMW with the DCT or the ZF transmission. I`d also love to try the Porsche PDK system as I hear it is quite amazing as well. Manuals will always have my heart, but I will evaluate the car as a whole package rather than dying on my manual transmission sword.

- Build quality and comfort mean a lot to me. I`ve passed on two cars with blistering performance in their catagories because their seats were really uncomfotable and I could tell from early in the test drive the build quality was total junk from both a materials and a fit/finish stand point. I don`t want to spend my time in the cockpit looking around thinking, "boy these seats hurt my back and this interior is total crap!"
 
Deseretnate- Hey, those are some good criteria you mentioned!

Yeah, gotta be comfortable. I can`t reach the steering wheel in a lot of cars without telescoping columns and couldn`t enjoy the Porsches on a track because I didn`t fit with a helmet on. That said, my wife and I are both OK with heavily bolstered Sport seats and a *very* firm ride.

That`s *VERY* interesting to me about the Mazda build-quality! Our MPV was so utterly awful (and the Reps were of zero help) that I`d vowed "never again!

Manuals vs. autos always comes up...my wife never had an automatic (did drive a few of mine) until her `00 A8 and she didn`t expect to like that car over it. She`d insisted that she`d never own an automatic and had refused several cars over it, but now her Forever Car has one. I had to choose between shifting my own gears and exercising (easy call) but now there`s zero way I`d drive a manual. When I think back to all that dbl-clutching/H&T/etc. stuff...dozens of times just driving to the grocery...phooey on that. And I`ve noticed that the last few manuals I drove were *not* set up for H&T, simply zero way my narrow foot could do it and the pedal heights weren`t right even if they`d been closer together; if we couldn`t H&T we weren`t buying (I simply couldn`t drive her RX7 over it and was glad she wanted something else that I could drive).
 
Yeah, gotta be comfortable. I can`t reach the steering wheel in a lot of cars without telescoping columns and couldn`t enjoy the Porsches on a track because I didn`t fit with a helmet on. That said, my wife and I are both OK with heavily bolstered Sport seats and a *very* firm ride.

I`ve found I`m very uncomfortable and don`t feel "right" when I`m not in a well bolstered seat. My wife`s Highlander has very flat seets with no bolstering and I`m really don`t like driving it because of that reason. I feel like I`m simply cargo loaded behind the steering wheel vs being the pilot.

Good call on the helmet. I`m not really tall, but should probably start taking it on test drives just in case.

That`s *VERY* interesting to me about the Mazda build-quality! Our MPV was so utterly awful (and the Reps were of zero help) that I`d vowed "never again!

I`d say they`ve been on a steady climb since those days. We own a `10 Mazda3 and it`s the most reliable car we`ve ever owned by a very large margine. That car, while being well built, didn`t have the greatest interior materials and is pretty loud due to very little sound deadening. Over the last 3-ish years Mazda has made a HUGE leap in quality again. Their vehicles aren`t all that powerful, but the handling and steering is very good. I cound the CX-5 SUV to drive better than many cars I`ve driven despite the height and weight. I`ve been extreamly pleased with what I`ve seen from their interiors as well. The fit/finish and matierials are far above what you`d think for their price point. I`d happily put their interiors on par with Audi and Volvo and from a design standpoint ahead of even Mercedes, which I find quite ugly these days. They are comfortable and have become pretty quiet as well.

Manuals vs. autos always comes up...my wife never had an automatic (did drive a few of mine) until her `00 A8 and she didn`t expect to like that car over it. She`d insisted that she`d never own an automatic and had refused several cars over it, but now her Forever Car has one. I had to choose between shifting my own gears and exercising (easy call) but now there`s zero way I`d drive a manual. When I think back to all that dbl-clutching/H&T/etc. stuff...dozens of times just driving to the grocery...phooey on that. And I`ve noticed that the last few manuals I drove were *not* set up for H&T, simply zero way my narrow foot could do it and the pedal heights weren`t right even if they`d been closer together; if we couldn`t H&T we weren`t buying (I simply couldn`t drive her RX7 over it and was glad she wanted something else that I could drive).

I`ve never perfected H&T and even in my GTI the pedals aren`t set up real well for a traditional approach. Honestly due to injuries, I can`t twist my ankel in a way to do a traditional H&T anyway (i.e. heel on the gas). I could do a modified approach (rock the foot side to side between brake and gas), but good places to practice are hard to find around here with all the straight roads. Honestly, after driving a car with a good paddle set up with a dual clutch or fast automatic, I actually found being able to focus more on my line and throttle application while simply flipping through the gears a pretty enjoyable experience.
 
m54daboll- Hey, I failed to mention that I think that is a great choice and I`m looking forward to hearing what you think of it after you have some stick time with it.
 
Good call on the helmet. I`m not really tall, but should probably start taking it on test drives just in case.

Yeah, don`t want to buy a Track Day Toy only to find out you can`t play with it as planned :o Some salesmen`s reactions are amusing when you walk up to the Demo holding the helmet ;)

I`m only 5`9" and it`s a very short list of vehicles that I can be comfortable in with a helmet and discomfort = compromised performance.


..I`d say ]Mazda`s] been on a steady climb since those days...

Good to hear, the MPV literally left us creeping home (from far, far away) in limp-home mode countless times besides rusting away from the inside out. Yeah, I utterly hated how it drove, but I could`ve put up with that. We finally decided it was just too unsafe and sold it back to the dealer the last time they said it was "really OK". I pity its next owner but I had to do something with it..

I`ve never perfected H&T and even in my GTI the pedals aren`t set up real well for a traditional approach. Honestly due to injuries, I can`t twist my ankel in a way to do a traditional H&T anyway (i.e. heel on the gas)..

TBH, I don`t know how you can drive it then. We simply can`t drive sticks unless we can match the spread while braking. Hope that didn`t sound critical...

I could do a modified approach (rock the foot side to side between brake and gas), but good places to practice are hard to find around here with all the straight roads...

That could work fine, IMO it`s a "do whatever works" sort of thing. Heh heh, I`ve spent countless hours on such stuff in some weird places where I figured I could do it...had to explain to LEOs plenty of times too!

Honestly, after driving a car with a good paddle set up with a dual clutch or fast automatic, I actually found being able to focus more on my line and throttle application while simply flipping through the gears a pretty enjoyable experience.

THAT. Period, IMO...but a lot of people genuinely love driving a stick and hey..whatever does it for ya :D

And sure, I might be, uhm....justifying :o since I can`t drive one (regularly) any more! I did kinda have fun with the last loaner car that had a manual ;)
 
TBH, I don`t know how you can drive it then. We simply can`t drive sticks unless we can match the spread while braking. Hope that didn`t sound critical...

Not at all. Over time, I`ve become pretty quick moving between the brake and throttle, and will "blip" the throttle when down shifting to help cover the RPM difference. In most tame driving situations these days that isn`t needed as much since automakers, in an effort improve fuel economy numbers build in a bit of "rev hang" into the throttle mapping on the ECU`s.

While my technique holds on the street and on autocross, I`ll be the first to admit it will fall flat if I ever became a serious track junkie. Fortunately I only do that once a year or so. [/quote]


THAT. Period, IMO...but a lot of people genuinely love driving a stick and hey..whatever does it for ya :D

I do actually take pride in still doing it, and it`s entertaining when people get in my car and they realize something different. At this point it`s become an archane art form like blacksmithing or glass blowing.
 
Desertnate- Oh yeah, that "moving fast between.." is what my wife did (just fine) for decades before going to School. Not like she ever wore out a synchro and she put >100K on her sticks. And once again..it sounds like today`s cars are different from what I`m used to. Didn`t notice that "hang time" in the last manual Audi, but it might`ve just been part of the "gee, lots of tech [stuff] between me and the road" effect that I get with modern vehicles.

And yes indeed, being able to row your own *is* becoming an anomaly!
 
m54daboll- Hey, I failed to mention that I think that is a great choice and I`m looking forward to hearing what you think of it after you have some stick time with it.

Accumulator--Had the car for about two months now. Its really got a miata-ish vibe to it. Only 200 horsepower but the car is loads of fun and you feel like you are going way faster than you are haha. It`s a great daily driver. On the highway, I get close to 40 mpg, and 25mpg in the city. It`s really fun to drive and the suspension setup is great. Stiff from the factory and it handles so well in the corners. The Michelin PS4s help a ton with grip (although they suck in the Boston snow because they were not made for it). The car is really lacking in the exhaust dept, however. It has this "active engine sound" where it pumps some real engine sound into the cabin through the speakers. So fake sound yes, but the origin of the sound is real. I like that you can have it on normal mode for this, minimized, enhanced, or completely off. I`m really missing a prominent exhaust sound coming from behind me though. It`s good for a daily driver, but for my personal taste it is just way too quiet. Can`t wait to see how the car does on the autocross track in the spring, but so far I love the thing!
 
m54daboll- Heh heh, I`m guessing you`re maybe a few decades younger than I am :D Yeah..your car reminds me a lot of my old Honda CRX`s (see how old I am?!?), bet you`ll continue to love it for a good long time.
 
m54daboll- Heh heh, I`m guessing you`re maybe a few decades younger than I am :D Yeah..your car reminds me a lot of my old Honda CRX`s (see how old I am?!?), bet you`ll continue to love it for a good long time.

Haha yea I`m 21 so still like my cars manual, stiff, and loud. I`m sure that will change in a few years
 
How about factors(plural) as I have a number of criteria and as I buy each new/used vehicle I buy the list gets longer.

First off it has to look nice or appeal to me. Color, when looking for my truck I purchased last fall I was down to two colors, blue was at the top then dark red. I definitely will not do black again and white is at the bottom of the list also since it looks too sterile to me. It has to have decent power so it was V6 and wasn`t interested in turbo 4`s. I am a big guy so fit, comfort and ease of getting into and out of. I wasn`t to concerned about interior looks since everything in my budget looks so cheaply made to begin with. I was looking at pickups and SUV`s and the criteria for a pickup was extended not crew so was looking into Colorado or an F150 and for an SUV I was looking at Jeep Cherokee.

My profile pic shows what I ended up with, a 2017 Colorado, Cajun Red Tintcoat, V6, 4X4. The test drive was comfortable but after the 4+ hour ride home the seat left something to be desired, even though used it is now getting broke in and more comfortable now. If I had fun factor on the list I would have kept my Camaro but it was time for a change and getting a little stiff in my old age it was tougher getting in and out of.
 
For context, I am an immature 21 year old kid who`s nuts about cars.

Git off my lawn!!:D

But seriously. With a house and kids it has to fit how I live. Which means it has to be able to carry stuff and people - no sports cars.:mellow:
The other thing is the interior - do I like the material, gauge layout etc.. Basically am I comfortable behind the wheel and do I like what I`m looking at.
 
Heh heh, you guys acting like 60 is "old"....

While my wife likes getting compliments on her A8, I`m more "nothing to see here, move along.." And every time I hear a loud exhaust I think it`s karma for the loud cars I had as a kid.
 
I got a compliment on my Accord in a parking lot the other day. When I do, I’m happy to declare how I love detailing.
 
My Cadillac is (unfortunately) hiding from the world in the garage because there aren’t any shows to take it to but when it did attend it won first in its class.

If I were ever buying that car when it was new thirty years ago, I think I would’ve passed because it has some annoying features but hey, it was my first car and I was over the moon when I did get it.
 
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