The Emperor Has No Clothes!

S

Setec Astronomy

Well-known member
When are we going to open our eyes and see this? GM (“as GM goes, so goes the nation�) lost $38.7 billion last year. China owns a trillion dollars of our debt, we’re in a home finance crisis, the President is trading in his Sikorsky helicopters for Eurocopters, everything I buy says “made in China� on it. We spend $2 billion a week in Iraq.



When are we going to wake up and realize that corporate greed, political malfeasance, and citizen apathy has undermined our nation? That while the top 1% of income earners enjoy tax cuts and a life of luxury, most of the citizenry struggles? We can’t vote with our pocketbooks by buying “Americanâ€�, even if people were buying GM cars, plenty of them are made in Canada with Chinese parts. Just try to buy a computer monitor or TV or cellphone etc. etc. that’s made in the US. It might be half alright if these things were even still designed here…but they are not. When are people going to realize that the country built up by the “greatest generationâ€� and enjoyed by the baby boomers has slipped away? Did anyone listen to Mitt Romney when he said in a recent campaign speech that we risk becoming the France or Great Britain of the 21st century…still great nations but not superpowers?



At least the Delphi bankruptcy court nixed the huge bonus the executives tried to give themselves for bringing the company out of bankruptcy. What a concept, get hired to reorganize the company, get an $80 million bonus for doing it (on top of your salary)! When the judge asked the lawyers why the execs deserved this huge bonus instead of the money going to the creditors, the lawyers had no answer (I guess they and the execs just thought they could get away with it). Not that it should be a surprise, most executives today have contracts so they get their multimillion-dollar paycheck even after they get fired. Try that one at your job.



Getting back on track is going to take not only political resolve, it will take the populace no longer being sheep, to say that the emperor has no clothes, that we’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore. That we're not going to accept a bribe (the economic stimulus package) as a substitute for a lack of political and corporate governance. If anyone here has ever seen the John Carpenter movie “They Live�, it’s time for us all to put the sunglasses on and rebuke the political, corporate, and social nonsense that is all around us.
 
Along the same lines as the execs getting paid after they're fired - The Broward County Sheriff was arrested and convicted (he pled out) by the Feds. He resigned and then he went to court to get his retirement benefits (he lost but is appealing). Hey, public officials! When you betray the public by committing criminal acts and you get caught; you don't (or at least shouldn't) get anything but time in jail!
 
I personally blame hippies and their stupid ultra liberal stances. Seriously....

From my research, up until the mid 70's, most people believed in personal responsiblity. Today, everybody passes the buck, nobody takes owner ship, etc...



Personally, I think the top 1 percent of America (income wise) is awesome and I really hate people who hate successful people.
 
But what can we do. I've always tried to buy American when ever possible and buy from a local store over a national chain, even if it costs more. I quit doing that this fall, I'm giving up. Since then I have bought some tools from Harbor Freight. lol I don't really see me being much of an impact on the overall picture. I know they say every person counts but I don't believe that anymore. Why should I suffer when the people running our country are living it up. I suffer to put a few buck in our country and they go blow it all on something stupid.
 
TH0001 said:
Personally, I think the top 1 percent of America (income wise) is awesome and I really hate people who hate successful people.
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Hey, you already hated me, so what's the diff? BTW, I don't hate successful people. Bill Gates and every entrepreneur is entitled to every penny of their wealth. My problem is with the MBA CEO's (including the President) who rape and pillage in service to their own greed or (in the case of government) ideololgy. IMO most executives don't deserve to make the salaries/compensation they receive. Once upon a time CEO's made somewhere in the area of 20 times the salary of the average worker...what would that be today? A million dollars? Two million?



In those days there was a little thing called the American dream, where someone could have a job, make enough money to have a decent home, and enough so that their spouse could stay home with the kids so they could grow up with some maturity and acquaintance with the realities of adulthood, instead of growing up in day care and playing first-person shooter games so they grow up with a distorted sense of reality. Never being able to walk home from school (heaven forbid!) and getting in a fight or falling out of a tree so maybe they have some idea what getting hurt or being in danger feels like, instead of being coddled, so that as you alluded to, they grow up with some sense of entitlement.



But back to the "successful" people. The idea that a CEO can make a virtually unlimited salary, with no consequences (like getting fired, because who cares? I still get a salary!), just unleashes the greed that it makes sense to send everything (manufacturing, customer service) overseas or to the lowest possibly priced place, regardless of the long-term consequences. Or buy $6000 shower curtains paid for by...the company! You know, I don't "hate" Ken Lay and people of his ilk because they were successful, I "hate" them because they were wretched people who took advantage of a lot of other people to get their success. These are the same people who killed our manufacturing might, worked the "internet bubble", and are behind the mortgage debacle. They are the Gordon Geckos.



BTW, next time you are working for one of those 1-percenters, ask them if they needed that tax cut and whether they would still be employing you if they didn't have it. I think I already know the answer, but ask and post the answer back here.
 
Yal said:
I fear its all too far along to do anything about :(
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So we should move to China? Where all the jobs will be?



Can we redial the clock to 1955? 1965? 1975? 1985? 1995?? Maybe not, but we can stop the insanity now and at least hold it where it is, maybe we can roll it back to 2005...or 2003 before we were bleeding $2 billion a week out of our treasury. I wonder how many "economic stimulus" handouts we could give to young people around the world who currently hate the US for $2 billion a week? I wonder if that would make them like us any better than killing them? In case no one noticed, they are making them faster than we can kill them.



As an old friend of mine used to tell me, you get more bees with honey than with vinegar (or was that flies?).
 
I think a lot of today's problems are related to corporate greed and lack of moral values in society in general, from the top dog (white house) in power all the way down to the person who sweeps up night :angry and MTV of today! :furious:
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Hey, you already hated me, so what's the diff? BTW, I don't hate successful people. Bill Gates and every entrepreneur is entitled to every penny of their wealth. My problem is with the MBA CEO's (including the President) who rape and pillage in service to their own greed or (in the case of government) ideololgy. IMO most executives don't deserve to make the salaries/compensation they receive. Once upon a time CEO's made somewhere in the area of 20 times the salary of the average worker...what would that be today? A million dollars? Two million?



In those days there was a little thing called the American dream, where someone could have a job, make enough money to have a decent home, and enough so that their spouse could stay home with the kids so they could grow up with some maturity and acquaintance with the realities of adulthood, instead of growing up in day care and playing first-person shooter games so they grow up with a distorted sense of reality. Never being able to walk home from school (heaven forbid!) and getting in a fight or falling out of a tree so maybe they have some idea what getting hurt or being in danger feels like, instead of being coddled, so that as you alluded to, they grow up with some sense of entitlement.



But back to the "successful" people. The idea that a CEO can make a virtually unlimited salary, with no consequences (like getting fired, because who cares? I still get a salary!), just unleashes the greed that it makes sense to send everything (manufacturing, customer service) overseas or to the lowest possibly priced place, regardless of the long-term consequences. Or buy $6000 shower curtains paid for by...the company! You know, I don't "hate" Ken Lay and people of his ilk because they were successful, I "hate" them because they were wretched people who took advantage of a lot of other people to get their success. These are the same people who killed our manufacturing might, worked the "internet bubble", and are behind the mortgage debacle. They are the Gordon Geckos.



BTW, next time you are working for one of those 1-percenters, ask them if they needed that tax cut and whether they would still be employing you if they didn't have it. I think I already know the answer, but ask and post the answer back here.
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Leave the MBA's out of this! Not all of us are corrupt CEO's! Have you seen the price of business school these days? I can't start the American dream until I've repaid my student loans! LOL
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Getting back on track is going to take not only political resolve, it will take the populace no longer being sheep, to say that the emperor has no clothes, that we’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore. That we're not going to accept a bribe (the economic stimulus package) as a substitute for a lack of political and corporate governance.
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See my signature.



Tort
 
I spent a summer working in a large-scale manufacturing plant, and we have bigger problems than CEO's and corruption. Half the guys there were drunks, never showed up on time, didn't finish high school, etc.



The only way we're going to beat this crisis is to create a skilled worker class, of people who have the drive and intelligence to go to college but would rather work a trade. Restore people's trust in "American Made". Sell higher quality products than the Europeans.
 
themightytimmah said:
The only way we're going to beat this crisis is to create a skilled worker class, of people who have the drive and intelligence to go to college but would rather work a trade...
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Doesn't that describe the "greatest generation"? Who came back from war and just wanted to earn an honest wage for an honest day's work? Somehow in their quest to have a better life for their children, having a trade somehow became a dishonest way to make a living. I think it had to to with the vicious cycle of the unions and management, which opened the door to what happened in the 70's which led us to where we are now.
 
The problem is that the almight dollar is all that anyone is after. Company execs have always been after that, so that should be no surprise. But even the average person is all about money now. The way companies sell more is to make products cheaper. We all want tons of "stuff" and at the best price. So companies are forced to go overseas or risk going out of business. The majority don't care about service or reliability, they just want it cheap. And then they complain six months later when their TV is broken because they bought some cheap cheap no name brand on Black Friday.
 
Speaking of dollars and the recent tax stimulus package, your not gonna believe this but I think the new stimulus plan is simply and ADVANCE of your own future 2009 tax refund. In other words, they're not giving you any money, they're just giving you back your own money that they confiscated from you. I could be wrong about this but it wouldn't surprise me. :angry



Patrick
 
ptaylor_9849 said:
Speaking of dollars and the recent tax stimulus package, your not gonna believe this but I think the new stimulus plan is simply and ADVANCE of your own future 2009 tax refund. I could be wrong about this but it wouldn't surprise me. :angry
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A friend of mine told me that the same thing happened the last time they did this, they subtracted it from her refund.
 
In an effort to keep things calm around here by changing the subject, I've never asked you but exactly what is "Setec Astronomy"?



Patrick
 
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