The basics: Wash and dry

I

imported_Marksman

New member
Well, somewhere between washing and drying all of my swirls have pretty much returned on my black Z-28. I'm not sure where or how though. I'm using a sheepskin washmit from autopia carecar and washing with Eagle One Wet wash. When I dry, I use a combination of the California water blade and the Meguiars water magnet drying towels. I use moderate pressure on the waterblade so it will function correctly, but simply pull the towels across the finish.



I've also been using the Cailifornia duster to remove small layers of every day dust. I simpy drag that across the surface as well, using no pressure, just the weight of the duster.



Any ideas what I'm doing wrong??



Edit: They look like very light topical swirls, no deep scratches. They're very light, but very noticable under sunlight.
 
:scared: California Water Blade. :eek: You couldn't pay me to use one of those on my cars. I know some swear by them but I never did take to the idea of dragging a piece of plastic over the paint. :nervous:



The problem with swirls is that if you don't actually polish them out but merely fill them in you are just hiding them. You have to keep reapplying whatever it is you use to fill them in constantly to maintain that swirl free finish.



Plus, You can introduce fresh swirl marks by washing, drying and applying your wax. Any contact at all with the paint introduces the possibility of fresh marring, that's why technique is so important.



I have the same problem with my car. I do the best I can to maintain the finish. When the swirls return I put a fresh coat or two of Zaino on and it looks good for quite awhile. When the swirls become noticeable I know it's time for a new coat of Zaino.



I use at least two sheepskin mitts and the two bucket system to wash my car. I use high quality microfibers and 100% suprima cotton towels for drying/polishing/buffing. I also use the California Duster.



I dry the car very carefully and use several different towels on different portions of the car. I use high quality MF towels and 100% cotton applicators for applying the wax and buffing. I make sure everything is free of dirt/debris.



The result is that my car looks good. Perfect? No. I can see scratches in certain types of light and only a machine polish will get those out but for the most part I'm pleased and can live with the imperfections. I've come to the conclusion that how and where I drive my car eliminates the possibility of perfection.



If I were you I'd ditch that water blade and stick to high quality MF towels for drying only. Then I'd decide what it is you can live with regards to the swirls. You might want to check out Accumulator's washing technique on how to maintain a swirl-free finish.
 
I agree with much of what was stated above. I, however, prefer to use natural sea sponges. These things are amazing. They seem to get cleaner and cleaner with every use. The California Car Duster's threads have some type of wax coating on them. This coating attracts dirt, which is then dragged across the paint the next time it is used. No matter what you do, it is very difficult to maintain a perfect finish. Eventually some type of paint defects are going to occur. Just try to learn to live with them, and do everything reasonably possible to prevent them.
 
You always run the risk of inducing swirls/scratches everytme you wash/QD the car. A black Z28 is a challenge to keep up the paint.



I found that the media has been the culprit in the past. Try to keep your mitts as clean as possible. Not sure how many you're using, but I use one for the main body of the car, one for the lower half (below the belt line) and use a boar's hair brush only for my rims.



For drying, I have a few MF Waffle weave towels. I feel like you have to wash the drying towel after each use, so I have a few so I'm washing batches of towels rather than a few towels in a load. Also, when drying, try to blot the water instead of wiping it.



I'm not a fan of the Cali water blade. All you need is one little bit of missed dirt during the wash and it'll get dragged across the paint. Some people do use it with success though.



If you really want to take washing to a next level, check out Accumulator's non-marring washing technique in the Hall of Fame forum. I usually take a good hour to an hour and a half to do a regular wash. That technique would definitely take a me a few hours. Also check out the perfect drying technique in the Hall of Fame as well if you haven't done so already. Great writeups over there.

Hope this helps.

*edit a few typos :o
 
brwill2005 said:
I agree with much of what was stated above. I, however, prefer to use natural sea sponges. These things are amazing. They seem to get cleaner and cleaner with every use. The California Car Duster's threads have some type of wax coating on them. This coating attracts dirt, which is then dragged across the paint the next time it is used. No matter what you do, it is very difficult to maintain a perfect finish. Eventually some type of paint defects are going to occur. Just try to learn to live with them, and do everything reasonably possible to prevent them.
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I agree about maintaining your finish/living with swirl marks. A lot has to do with your mindset and what you do with your car.



The trick with the CCD is not to use it on the car when it's dirty, just when it's dusty. I use it for cleaning off pollen and light dust before QD'ing. I don't use it every day though. I basically just flick the duster over the paint and almost blow off the debris. I never push down on it. This time of year it comes in handy with all the pollen in the air. If the car is dirty I wash it. Every year I replace my CCD. They are cheap enough and I don't like them to be too dirty, despite what the manufacturer says about them working better when dirty.



Sea sponges..I've read quite a bit of debate on this. Some really like them but others are wary of using something that sat on the bottom of the ocean and was filled with sand. I guess I fall into this category. I'm always afraid of that stray bit of sand that could still be in the sponge. I guess I'm paranoid. :hm



I tend more towards the sheepskin mitts. I've used cotton and have an MF mitt but I really like the sheepskin because it soaps up so nicely, traps dirt well and is easy to rinse out.
 
I haven't had any problems with the Cali Water Blade except when I scratched a car (back in the day when I worked at the body shop) with the hard plastic end of the CWB. :o



Since you have a black car, I definitely would NOT use a CWB, since every little defect is going to show up. I don't use mine anymore, except for really bad-condition vehicles where any extra light scratch wouldn't be anywhere near noticeable, and certainly not a concern to the owner.
 
Not to bang my own drum, but my Hall of Fame thread on wash technique might be worth a read.



Yeah, you can keep a car marring free. My '01 S8 has only been polished once since new and that was after it was washed (and repaired, repainted, etc.) by others following the "deer incident". Even our dog hauling beater minivan only needs polished once a year at most (twice since new, IIRC, and it's an '02). Note that I drive these vehicles year round, and Ohio winters are tough. It's all in how you wash and dry them. Well, you also can't let anything touch the paint, especially when they're dirty.



No CCDs for me (caused marring, very visible under magnfication). I only wash with a foamgun, two buckets (well, four, I use redundant systems on each side of car), and at least four mitts, usually a lot more- cotton, wool, and MF depending on what's called for. BHB/foamgun combo on the worst winter grime (gotta be *very* careful with this, but it's the safest method I've come up with). Dry by blotting with WW MFs. Takes a while, and it's not easy, but IMO it beats having "swirls" and/or having to polish all the time.
 
I've gotta defer to Accumulator if you want to get it perfect. If you are short on time (like myself), a marring-free wash is pretty much impossible. I do my washes in about 20 minutes from start to finish, using 2 buckets, one mitt, and a WW mf to dry. I find that I need to polish twice a year with a mild SMR, and I reapply RMG every other week or so, to hide minor marring. I do plan on getting a foamgun though, more to save time than anything else.
 
There was a post not too long ago about how SSRs from Poorboys contain fillers. Well, I have a GM car too, and the hood which I just polished 3 months ago needed polishing again. I am not faulting the product just yet (PB SSR 2.5). However, I use a 2 bucket wash, sheepskin mitt, light pressure, etc., and I still ended up with the same swirl marks after just 2.5 - 3 months. That being said, Accumulator's washing system is extreme but may be the reason he doesn't have to polish much. I feel like I am still learning the nuances of the PC after 4+ months of ownership as opposed to those who seem to pick it up on the first night.
 
I highly recommend after washing to use an open hose (no sprayer attachment) and let the water sheet off the body. It really works great in removing excess water! I went from using two microfiber waffle weave towels down to one with this technique. And I do blot dry with the towel as much as possible. Especially on horizontal surfaces like the hood, roof, and trunk.
 
Boongie said:
I highly recommend after washing to use an open hose (no sprayer attachment) and let the water sheet off the body. It really works great in removing excess water! I went from using two microfiber waffle weave towels down to one with this technique.
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This is what I do. :xyxthumbs Sheeting the water off with an open hose is the way to go. I blot with my 100% suprima cotton towels and then wipe the rest of the residue off with my DFTowels. It works very well. I plan on trying some WW MF towels ASAP. I want to see how the WW works compared to the cotton. Right now the cotton still absorbs/dries better than the DFTowels but the DF towels are incredible for QDing and buffing.



A big part is making sure that you turn the towels very often (after one or two swipes) and check frequently to make sure there's no debris trapped in the applicator, towels or your washmitt. I constantly rinse my wash mitt with the hose as I'm washing it as well as rinse it in a bucket of clean water. I treat my towels like I treat clay in that if a towel, applicator or mitt is dropped or dirt gets on it I get a new one.



Also, always use a separate wash mitt and towel for your wheels and underside (rocker panels, etc). Even if your wheels are clean it's very easy to get debris caught off the tires and wheel wells or inadvertently get brake dust on the towel. IMO you can never use too many towels while cleaning.
 
I can't sheet the water due to my boosted pressure :( Sure did save time when I *could* do it....



themightytimmah- Yeah, I sure do need a lot of time; I must spend 20 minutes just doing the wheels (the back sides take a while), calipers, and wheelwells, let alone the undercarriage, and that's all before I start the "regular" wash :o
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, I sure do need a lot of time; I must spend 20 minutes just doing the wheels (the back sides take a while), calipers, and wheelwells, let alone the undercarriage, and that's all before I start the "regular" wash :o
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:D :2thumbs:



Whatever you mitt choice use PLENTY of them per wash. Switch over to a new one well in advance before you may actually need to. All cheap insurance.
 
Accumulator said:
I can't sheet the water due to my boosted pressure :( Sure did save time when I *could* do it....
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Why don't you fill a bucket with water, and slowly dump that on the car to get the water to sheet off?
 
Somehow the idea of dumping out one of the buckets, rinsing it, and then using it to dump water on the vehicles just doesn't appeal to me. I clean the buckets out pretty carefully after I'm finished, and I use the leftover wash solution/rinse water to clean the shop floor before its final hosing down and drying.



I don't really mind using a bunch of WWs, and I blow most of the water off the Jag and the S8 with air anyhow. Saving time isn't really a priority with me these days.



Good idea for someone who wants to sheet the water though, and I *did* use the sheeting method at my old shop. I had to watch it there, the water would really spot if it dried on the finish, and I didn't have climate control then (that place got *hot*).
 
Good info so far, thanks for the replies.



I think right now it's something that I'm just going to deal with. I'll polish a couple times a year to help fight it, but I only have a garage for the summer and being a student, I dont have tons of time to throw at my car just yet. I was more or less looking for the source of the marring and it seems we've found a couple.



One last question though...



How long do wash mitts generally last?
 
Accumulator said:
I don't really mind using a bunch of WWs, and I blow most of the water off the Jag and the S8 with air anyhow. Saving time isn't really a priority with me these days.
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What are you Accumulator? Retired? :chuckle:



Anyway, your technique is flawless but I never think I could invest that much time into my car on any day. I'm just too slow and seems like my black Integra is a lost cause, at the moment. Who knows, I might just adopt your methods if I get a repaint on my car. :)
 
My WalMart wash mitts only lasted about 3-4 months, and my Black Magic chenille-wrapped wash sponge only lasted maybe 6 weeks :down . My ExcelDetail MF mitts are still going strong after about 6 months.
 
Denzil said:
What are you Accumulator? Retired? Anyway, your technique is flawless but I never think I could invest that much time into my car on any day...
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Yeah, actually I *am* retired :D



I didn't keep my cars *nearly* as nice when I was teaching, but nobody would've noticed it but me...I still spent a *lot* of time on them, but my technique and facilities weren't as good. One winter I washed my Carrera 4 after *every* commute :rolleyes: I look back and think "gee, I spent too much time detailing...". One day I decided that when I'm gone I want people to think more than "well, he kept his car clean", so I've been spending more time on other things. I don't think I spend nearly as much time on car stuff these days, but being able to do the detailing whenever I want makes a big difference (as does the right shop and equipment).



Marksman- Seeing that you're a student, IMO you've got more important things to occupy yourself with than detailing cars (yeah, I know, more of Accumulator's Autopian heresy ;) ). When I was in school, one year I just *quit* detailing altogether, stored my good car, and ran a beater through the carwash so I could concentrate on my studies. Probably one of the smartest things I could've done.



The wool mitts I bought from the Autopia store (yeah, I know, not the cheapest route) are still fine after about 8-10 moths. My MF mitts from MFTech are lasting a *long* time, but my chenille ones (Forget the maker, bought a bunch of them from fellow Autopian DetailKing a long time ago) wear out sorta fast. I'd consider them a renewable resource, to be used up and replaced (unlike the nonrenewable paint on your car ;) ).
 
Originally posted by Accumulator



I can't sheet the water due to my boosted pressure Sure did save time when I *could* do it....
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Accumulator, I don't quite understand this. Why not just turn the water down at the tap? :confused: This is what I do for one last final rinse for the whole car before I start drying.
 
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