Testing new headlight repair on my M3

I

imported_Quenga

New member
I finally put together another kit that is faster and lasts longer. I know a few people use it on here, thought I'd share my results and what I "dislike" about it.



Here are a few 50/50, before/after shots I just took:



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This shot shows the only thing I really "dislike" about this product. The typical "sprayed/orange peel" look. I had previously been polishing the lights out like paint and then just sealing them with HD Poxy. Polishing looks much better since it doesn't have the peel look, but it won't last unless you maintain it. Which, most people won't...which is why they pay for services like this.



I was doing a few headlights a month and then stopped because I got busy. I also didn't like knowing that people would be back. I warned everyone, but the majority of people were selling/trading in their cars and just wanted it to "look" good.



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From a normal stand point, you can't notice, but seeing how I always look at my car close up, I see it every time.





This was my process:



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Meguiar's 3" Sanding Discs on a PC (I would love to use those air compressor guns, but I have neither :()

320 Grit

500 Grit

800 Grit



Meguiars Foam Finishing Discs

1000 Grit (Sand)

3000 Grit (Sand)



SEM Solaray Headlight UV Sealant

2 light coats. 2 minutes between first and second coat and 5 minutes in between 2nd coat and UV Lamp Cure.



I cured it in 3 sections @ 2 minutes each, then touched up any remaining spots for a minute or so. You can tell it's not fully cured because it's still a little tacky. Usually the top edges and corners.



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Now the car is sitting in direct sunlight facing the sun to finish curing. I ran out of tape and towels, so I'll do the second light later today once I hope over to the store and get more.





Anyone else using SEM Solaray spray? Got any tips?
 
That light is a rip off. I use SEM Products(Some) Coatings are great, but key is time and money.



David i was skeptical about where my greatest adhesion level would be on polycarbonate, I actually called on Glasweld manufacturer to get specific tech questions answered, and they said 1500 grit is their apparent guarantee for a prep. The GCLEAR works great for a quick fix when done right



There are also advances into higher solid resin mixtures for sprayable coatings to take care of some of the worst headlights(cracked, pitted, etc)
 
Holy smokes Batman, I called the closest store that carries SEM Solaray stuff and a 12 oz can was......wait for it...$48.00, really? Yep, even the guy on the phone was like ***, hey Bill - is this right? 48? yeah ok - gets back to me and says yep, it really is $48.
 
JuneBug said:
Holy smokes Batman, I called the closest store that carries SEM Solaray stuff and a 12 oz can was......wait for it...$48.00, really? Yep, even the guy on the phone was like ***, hey Bill - is this right? 48? yeah ok - gets back to me and says yep, it really is $48.
Click to expand...



How many sets of lights will that 12 oz. can cover, though?



I'd be curious to know how that stuff is durability wise as compared to some of the other (potentially) much cheaper options out there...
 
JuneBug said:
Doesn't Dupli-color make something too? I know I have seen another company somewhere that does.
Click to expand...



I'm not aware of anything headlight or polycarbonate specific from Dupli-Color; but I have no doubt there are probably a lot of other companies out there offering UV coatings. What those coatings really are is another question, though. In fact here's an example I just found:



Illuminator Headlight Restoration UV Coating



That stuff is even more expensive than the SEM.



I haven't really had to do that much headlight restoration since they don't get too bad around here, and the few I've done were just sealed up with Opti-Coat. Seems to hold up fine from what I've observed.
 
David Fermani said:
Nice. If you're painting lights, you don't need to go so fine with your sanding. 1500 grit is waaay more then enough.
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I only had 1000 and 3000, and tested out spraying at just 1000. I could have just not sanded long enough, but I didn't get the clarity I was looking for. I have several cars to test this stuff on, so I'm going to try several ways. I originally checked my supplies and thought I had 1500 and 2000, but I never wet sand since I don't like to take on big detail projects...so o'well for me. I was thinking about adhesion, so we'll see if it lasts.



hacadacalopolis said:
That light is a rip off. I use SEM Products(Some) Coatings are great, but key is time and money.



David i was skeptical about where my greatest adhesion level would be on polycarbonate, I actually called on Glasweld manufacturer to get specific tech questions answered, and they said 1500 grit is their apparent guarantee for a prep. The GCLEAR works great for a quick fix when done right



There are also advances into higher solid resin mixtures for sprayable coatings to take care of some of the worst headlights(cracked, pitted, etc)
Click to expand...



If you think that light is a rip-off, what do you recommend? I researched several lights and even the replacement light bulb. The light is like $90 alone. I actually got it off eBay for a price I was comfortable paying. I actually never jumped in just because of the cost.



JuneBug said:
Holy smokes Batman, I called the closest store that carries SEM Solaray stuff and a 12 oz can was......wait for it...$48.00, really? Yep, even the guy on the phone was like ***, hey Bill - is this right? 48? yeah ok - gets back to me and says yep, it really is $48.
Click to expand...



Online it can be had for $30/ish a can. I think other manufacturers say it'll do like 20 lights. It's a $30/premium a light, so roughly 18 lights is pure profit? We'll see, I'm very interested in how long it's going to last. I got 2 cans just to make sure I don't run out too soon.



C. Charles Hahn said:
I'm not aware of anything headlight or polycarbonate specific from Dupli-Color; but I have no doubt there are probably a lot of other companies out there offering UV coatings. What those coatings really are is another question, though. In fact here's an example I just found:



Illuminator Headlight Restoration UV Coating



That stuff is even more expensive than the SEM.



I haven't really had to do that much headlight restoration since they don't get too bad around here, and the few I've done were just sealed up with Opti-Coat. Seems to hold up fine from what I've observed.
Click to expand...



I have been sealing with waxes, sealants and was going to try several other options, but nothing seemed to last that long. With this, it's as close to a "permanent" fix as you can get. I am very interested in the longevity of this stuff, so it's a good thing I have 3 cars to use it on that should be around for a while.





This isn't a cheap method, but it's the method that was easy to setup, order and use. But, it's not cheap at all. Luckily I live in a pretty nice area and I don't need more than 1 detail a weekend to be happy. I figure if this 1 service can net me 1-2 a month, it's the highest ROI I have. It's easy to do, cost isn't that much considering I sit between an hour to an hour and a half. So far I'm happy, but with a 2-year guarantee...it better be worth it.
 
Also, since there are several people interested in the product, I like how it has to be cured. I explained the process to one of the sales reps we work with and he actually paid for a resto before. He said the guy sprayed a clear on it, too, but within a year it yellowed and started flaking. I asked if he had cured it and he said no, he did it and it was dry within minutes inside his garage.



I actually left part of the light 'uncured' and over night it had stayed completely tacky. I like the light because it was a really gloomy day and I pulled it outside to get the 'natural' UV coating...it stayed tacky. That's the benefit of the light. You can do it in the evenings or in horrible light conditions. The light is also VERY bright, they say it's just like arc welding and it is. Several times I just looked at the reflection off the headlight, looked away and had sun spots as if I just looked at the sun...probably not safe.



For what you can upcharge and market it with, I don't think $30-$40/can is unreasonable.
 
It gets worse. About 1/2 of the contents are propellant and transfer rate for spraying is about 35%, so the actual on headlight material is about 2 oz.



We use wipe on coatings and can do about 20 headlight restorations with 2 oz (3 ml per headlight). Spray on coatings are good, but I think they have been superseded bynewer wipe on products which don't require masking or UV cure. We use 3 different coatings depending on the type of restoration market we are serving and warrant up to 3 years.



ray6
 
ray6 said:
It gets worse. About 1/2 of the contents are propellant and transfer rate for spraying is about 35%, so the actual on headlight material is about 2 oz.



We use wipe on coatings and can do about 20 headlight restorations with 2 oz (3 ml per headlight). Spray on coatings are good, but I think they have been superseded bynewer wipe on products which don't require masking or UV cure. We use 3 different coatings depending on the type of restoration market we are serving and warrant up to 3 years.



ray6
Click to expand...



Can you elaborate some on the wipe on coatings you are using?
 
We are a manufacturer so it wouldn't be proper to push our own products, but there are many others, and with a little research they are not hard to find (not ours, we don't use a website).



When headlights are manufactured, they are coated with a protective coating to shield the polycarbonate from ultra violet from the sun, and because polycarbonate is quite porous, seal against moisture. This coating may also offer some scratch resistance.



While doing its job, this coating slowly oxidizes, causing it to become cloudy and yellow. In severe cases it will delaminate from the polycarbonate. This is what you are looking at when you see a yellow and/or cloudy headlight.



The way the UV coating works is as follows:

The UV absorption material (commonly silicone) consists of long molecular chains which tend to hook to each other, or cross link. When atoms within these chains are exposed to UV, they convert UV energy to heat. The atoms vibrate in proportion to the amount of UV. Eventually, these atoms become pushed out of place and separate from the cross linked molecules. This makes the coating less transparent and can change the color to yellow.



To restore headlights to full clarity this oxidized coating must be removed and replaced with a new one. Just stripping the old coating off but not replacing it with a new one will leave the polycarbonate exposed to ultraviolet and moisture and will quickly deteriorate, usually in a matter of weeks or months.



UV coatings are based on polyurethanes, silicone, phenolic resin and other materials. They can be applied by spray, brush or wipe on. At the factory, they are usually applied using electrostatic, dip or spray. You can't duplicate what the factory does because they use expensive and complex procedures (ultrasonic cleaning, primer, UV or IR bake. etc.) but you can make old headlights look like new with a little effort.



Although spraying works, it requires more prep time for additional sanding, taping, masking, etc. This coating has to cure. Some of the more popular coatings cure by oxygen adsorption, some by chemical reaction (2K) coating+hardener and some by UV. Each type has it's merits. It all depends on the quality of the restoration you are doing, your costs and your customer's expectations.



If you want to learn more about headlight restoration, especially if you want to offer it as a paying service, I would strongly urge you to check out autogeeks.com and deltakits.com forums on headlight restoration.

Hope this helps more than confuses.

ray6
 
I don't know how many headlights this product will do, but keep in mind that 1/3 of that 12 oz. is propane or nitrogen. Of the remaining 8 oz., you'll get about 50% efficiency when spraying, so you're left with about 4 oz. on the headlights. We don't use spray, we use different wipe on coatings, but generally we use 3 to 6 ml (30 ml=1 oz.) per headlight. Water based 2K coatings are thinner and usually equal about 3 -4 ml. (2 coats) and solvent based 1K is more like 6 ml. single coat. My guess would be 15 to 30 headlights per can. But even at 15 headlights, you're talking about $3/headlight. Not bad if it lasts. I've never used this product so I don't know about it's lifetime, but I'll bet someone on this forum knows.



If you're restoring headlights, the prep for the protective coating is where you'll spend most of your time. Some restorers will spend an hour or more per vehicle in the prep work, while others (including myself) rarely spend more than 30 minutes, usually 20. If we both charge the same amount, I make twice as much profit as he does. So, the actual cost of the final coating has little to do with the profitability of your service as long as the coating meets your customer's expectations.



We use a figure of $2-$3 per headlight for materials and set restoration price based on a labor rate of $100/ hr., so if it looks like it will take 30 minutes, it would be priced at $50+6 or $56 total.

For some dealers with multiple restores we use a labor rate of $60/hr., and generally spend less than 15 to 20 minutes per vehicle. This rate is low enough to keep them from using sub-standard methods like polish and buff that only lasts a few months.



If you want to be profitable at restoring headlights, here's a few tips.

Restoring headlights requires 2 steps; removing the old coating and replacing it with a new one.

There's no perfect system out there for doing both. Separate them. You don't need a "packaged system".

Using power tools to remove old coatings will cut your restoration time in half.

Prepare headlight surface only to the minimum finish required for the coating you're using. Most coatings like 1500 grit. A good coating will fill in 1500 grit sanding marks.

Additional sanding/polishing provides marginal results, and don't leave as good a surface for the new coating to bite in to.

Many of your new customers will be referrals from previous customers. You have to meet or exceed your customer's expectations.

The best looking restoration is worthless if your customer will be coming back in a few months because the coating you applied didn't last.

Coating lifetime, not cost per headlight should be your guide when choosing a coating.

There are many fine "commercial grade coatings" available now. Most are formulated to stick to polycarbonate, seal against moisture and most importantly, block UV radiation.

Some are solvent based, some water based, some 1K and some 2K. They can be applied by wiping on or spraying, and are cured by air, UV, chemical (think epoxy resin) or heat.

We seldom use spray on coatings due to all the extra work of taping, masking, cleanup, etc. We usually don't mask because we select between 1, 2 or 3" sanding disks and polishing pads. We also use a flex drive system with a foot controller so you can use 2 hands and can start and stop with the pad on the headlight. No slinging of solutions. These things save a few minutes here and there, but more importantly give us flexibility and repeatable results.

If you sand, use a good sanding lubricant or at least use dish washing soap and water. Lubricant keeps your paper from filling up and makes it last longer. Saves money and time changing disks.

Spray headlights with water or alcohol and inspect before doing any restorations. Headlights with moisture inside or deteriorated reflective finishes might not be good candidates, or at least you can warn your customer.

Headlights are thick and rugged. We often begin restorations by scraping off old coating with razor blades. Sounds horrific, but works quite well. It's fast and cheap. Scrape marks are easily removed with 500 grit paper. Develop a flexible system so you can meet any restoration situation. Sometimes we use a water based coating because it will cure in less than 10 minutes (2 coats) so it's practical to use when partnering with car washes.

Constantly experiment with different procedures and materials. Develop your system for efficiency and quality. Do the best job you can and you'll get a free salesman every time you do a restore.

Practice, practice, practice. If you can't find cars to do (for free if necessary) from friends and family, check out non-profits such as Salvation Army, Goodwill, etc., any non-profit who sells used cars. Offer to restore their headlights for free (take lots of pictures, before and after) and invoice them a N/C invoice with your standard rate. Your fee now becomes a tax deduction and you're doing a good thing.

ray6
 
I've heard of too many streaking problems with wipe on coatings. No one seems to be able to put up quality photos or videos of them. From a distance or bad camera phones, wipe on coatings look good. But, the few times someone's actually put a quality photo up (usually the people not selling the product), there are streaks all over.



With this system my only issue is the orange peel. Sometimes it's not an issue, other times it gets pretty bad where I'll re-sand and re-spray the headlights. Overall it's frustrating, so I'm testing out just fully polishing the lights out and adding something like Opti-Coat. Cheaper, looks better and easier to get done.
 
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