tell me what i'm doing wrong (swirls)

D

dtsang

New member
ok,



so i worked on my car this past weekend w/ my PC and various chemicals. i started out on a rear quarter panel w/ yellow pad and DACP, moving onto the trunklid. i'd say i got out about 80% of the swirls. there were still some light scratches under the right lighting. when i moved onto the hood and the front quarter panels, i'd say my success rate was only about 60%. i finished all the panels w/ 3M SMR(39009) on a white pad. and then sealed it all w/ 3 coats of zaino. i considered using 3M MG(05397), but was confused about it's abrasiveness level, and which pad to mate it with.



just some background, the car is just over a year old. the dealer washed it once and a hand wash washed it once. since then i've been the one to wash/zaino. i make it a point to be very careful about swirls, but clearly i've made some mistakes. the swirls prior to PC still wasn't that bad, but after being obsessed w/ car finishes for the last 4 years, their getting on my nerves.



so someone please tell me what i'm doing wrong. i was considering going at it again w/ the PC and some DACP, perhaps spritzing the pad w/ some water for some extra bite. i don't want to get more agressive, because i don't believe it needs any more than that. i'm pretty sure i'm not going overboard w/ the product (4 dime sized drops), and i'm also pretty sure i'm working it in long enough (3 minutes for 3x3 section, maybe 4x3).



should i not expect everything to come out?:nixweiss
 
Just out of curiosity doesn't SMR(39009) have fillers? If so did you Dawn wash as required before the Zaino? SMR would look good till you wash the fillers out. Then Zaino will just amplify them. I have Zaino on Black but I used Menzerna Polishes prior to the Zaino.. no fillers.
 
Ok! I know is posible but how.



I have some small scratches not easy to spot them (Only autopians can find them) but I can not reach a 100% swirl free.



I know you have to use the pc with yellow pad. speed, etc. I went 2-3 times with DACP to remove all the ugly thing. I used later 3M PIII MG but I have scratches.



How fast should I move the PC?



I would say my car is 90% free of swirls.



What else can I do?
 
is 3M MG the same as 3M SMR w/o the fillers? should i be mating it w/ a yellow pad? after reviewing an email from sal, i realize that i was wrong in not dawning after the SMR. i'm gonna take another stab at it this weekend using DACP w/ a spritz of water. can anyone one else offer up some tips? i've became really disheartened and was hoping for some renewed vigor from autopia.:(
 
Without being their to evaluate the finish myself, I can only guess that in order to get the results you desire... you will have to use the rotary buffer in order to remove the deeper scratches.



PC's are often not aggressive enough to move small particles of paint in an effort to level, or flatten out the surface.
 
i know rotary is definitely too extreme in this case. the swirls are minor and can only be seen in certain lighting. and like jesstzn said, it's probably magnified from me not dawning after the SMR.
 
Well, I don't buy into the Dawn Wash routine, so I don't know what to tell you that.



Meguiar’s never recommends that molds in the boat manufacturing industry be washed with Dawn, or wiped down with acetone, (or any other type of cleaner), after polishing with a Meguiar's polish, and before applying either one of Meguiar’s traditional paste mold release waxes, or our new line of Synthetic Polymer Liquid Mold Sealers and Releases, (Velocity Line).



I can assure you it is vitally important that these polymers bond/cross link/adhere to the surface in order to prevent sticking a mold.



(Can you imagine a 75' Yacht hull, stuck to the mold? Ouch! That has to cost a lot of money)



Washing with any detergent is working backwards if the goal is to make the paint look good, and leave it protected.



If you want to get more aggressive, I have had good luck using Meguiar’s W-7006 foam cutting pad with #83 Dual-Action Cleaner Polish for removing deeper defects, but usually, for me, if the finish requires this combination, then the rotary buffer can, and often times will do the job faster.



It's all about moving small particles of paint, in a controlled fashion.



Mike
 
Interesting that no one has commented on the statement, "move small particles of paint", that Mike Phillips has made a couple of times.

This is an area of rotary buffing that is seldom discussed, partly because there aren't a lot of people that do it well.

When I mentioned something about a guy telling me how he could "move paint" with a rotary, several people said that was not possible with todays paints. The guy that does it just laughed and walked away when I told him that it couldn't be done.

Sounds like he isn't the only one that thinks it is possible.



Charles
 
Hi CharlesW,



I have been using that term for about 10-12 years, but not like in how some people mean when they say, reflow, paint.



What I mean, is to remove small particles of paint, through abrading.



It's just the way I say it, i.e. move small particles of paint that may be confusing.



Because technically, if your removing small particles of paint, you are moving them also, in fact, your moving them off the car/finish.



It's usually related to when I describe the difference between the power a rotary buffer has compared to your hands or Jiggle Machines, i.e. Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers and Orbital buffers.



In order to remove a scratch, you must remove, or move small particles of paint surround the scratch until the highest points of the surface are level with the lowest point/depth of the scratch.



This is where it gets tricky. "how to do it in a controlled method".



Meguiar's pioneered diminishing abrasives and foam pad technology which I think most people will admit goes a long way towards accomplishing this task, versus abrasives that don't break down, and wool pads.
 
Mike Phillips said:
Because technically, if your removing small particles of paint, you are moving them also, in fact, your moving them off the car/finish.
Click to expand...
:lol



Always interesting reading Mr. Phillips. :)



Just out of curiousity, do you know when foam pads started being used for refinishing and supplanting wool? My memory doesn't go back that far, but it seems like a relatively new technology.
 
That I know of, Meguiar's introduced the "Wooless Wonder" in 1965.



I think this is the year Gilligan's Island debuted.



I know its the year the Rolling Stones came out with, "I can't get no satisfaction", and the Beach Boys came out with, "Help me Rhonda".



Or, to put it into perspective, shortly after Ford introduced the first Mustang. (1964 1/2)



I have an orginal one in my collection. The foam is now disinigrating however,
 

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Mike, thanks for your input to this forum, your answers to problems like this one provide an amateur like me with further insights into detailing.
 
Thank you for your kind comments. :xyxthumbs



I enjoy helping people to get the best results possible from their,



* Time

* Money

* Efforts



The introduction to my how-to book tells a story about a time when I didn't get good results from my,



* Time

* Money

* Efforts





Been there... done that...



Know what it's like to stand in another car enthusiasts shoes.



Hopefully, I'll be around to continue helping in the future... you never know though... things change. :(
 
Hopefully, I'll be around to continue helping in the future... you never know though... things change.
Click to expand...



WHOA! What are you saying here Mike?



The reason I choose Meguiar's products is because of your participation here in this "community" You are a highly regarded contributor here and loosing your expertise WOULD diminish each of us.



I not only look for your posts and responses specifically but enjoy your writing style.



I read on your website that you work with the attitude that you take "ownership" of the cars you detail. When I read that, I got goose bumps, because I do the exact same thing.



People look at me and smile when I scold them for not treating "my" car better. And I love the story about how your avatar came about. I'm not about to let that admiration just vaporise without commenting.





I have a whole lot more to say but I will wait......

standing by with flamethrower for anyone causing problems for you....
 
Jesstzn said:
Just out of curiosity doesn't SMR(39009) have fillers? If so did you Dawn wash as required before the Zaino? SMR would look good till you wash the fillers out. Then Zaino will just amplify them. I have Zaino on Black but I used Menzerna Polishes prior to the Zaino.. no fillers.
Click to expand...



According to 3M, these products remove swirls without fillers. I have contacted 3M and will update the thread once I have the reply, but if you read the catalog or go to the site, they do list IHG for swirl removal, but do point out that it fills.



So, the only way to tell is use it, then spray the area once finish is free of swirls with the alcohol/water spray and see if they return.



So far, Megs #9, or SFP and 3M PIII-MG are known to remove swirls without fillers. Same for Menzerna.



Regards,

Deanski
 
Deanski said:
So far, Megs #9, or SFP and 3M PIII-MG are known to remove swirls without fillers. Same for Menzerna.



Regards,

Deanski
Click to expand...
Interesting. I thought the consensus of opinion here was that Meg's #9 filled swirls rather than removing them.:confused:

While I thought I was removing swirls several people posted that (1) You can't really remove swirls with a PC, (2) Meg's #9 doesn't really remove swirls, just fills them. Although I don't agree with either statement, I deferred to the more knowledgeable people on the forums.

Whatever it does, it works for me. IMO, as with most Meguiar's products, it does what it is advertised to do.



Charles
 
Yes you CAN remove swirls via PC, just takes the right product, like DACP and SFP or 3M PIII-MG.



Or, a rotary and same products just do it that much faster with better results.



See Mike Phillips post on Lab Sample D for the way it was done via Meguiars products with a rotary and a PC.



Regards,

Deanski
 
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