Take the safe approach (glaze), or polish and seal?

[SuperBee364]

I think I'm so concerned about doing the safest thing that I may have list my focus. My main concern is SAFELY protecting the car from further wash induced swirls etc. Will a glaze/wax accomplis this? Currently there is no protection since the dealer prepped it (compound/glaze).



Thanks!

Unfortunately, there's not a glaze/wax/sealant on the market capable of preventing marring/swirling. There are LSP's (Last Step Products... sealants/waxes) that will help stuff that gets on your paint come off easier, hence less mechanical force needed while washing, hence less chance of marring, but not one that will actually prevent marring.



I would recommend getting to know ONR very well, then following up a very thorough ONR wash with a good glaze (Meguiars Show Car Glaze would look wonderful on your Lamb, andi t will hide some defects/swirls/marring), then topping that with Collinite 845 Insulator Wax (available at Harbor Freight for about 12 bucks or so). This will give you a great combination of a fantastic look and great envrionmental protection. Collinite 845 Insulator Wax comes clean relatively easy; dirt doesn't imbed itself in it very firmly, which means you don't have to get jiggy with a wash media (which increases your chance of marring) to get it clean.



When you use ONR, follow the instructions to a T. I would recommend getting some Eurow-Riley Micro Fiber towels to use for ONR washing/drying. The only things not covered by the ONR directions:

• use distilled water for best results
  
• mix up a 32 oz. spray bottle of ONR (at Quick Detailer strength, instructions for this dilution are on the bottle) and pre-spray each panel with ONR solution prior to washing
  
• make sure each car panel is *completely* clean before using a fresh MF towel to dry. Anything left on the paint will scratch/cause marring when you run over it with a dry MF.
  
• if you use distilled water you don't have to worry too much about doing a perfect drying routiine as ONR won't leave much, if any, streaking
  
• the MF towel that you are using to do the washing should be *dripping* and *completely* saturated with ONR solution before you apply the MF to the panel you are going to wash. The wetter the MF towel, the better. Free-flowing solution is best.

Man, I wish you were close by... I'd get ya set up on a wash/wax regimen...



Beautiful shot of your car, btw. Love it. But we're gonna need some additional pics after you get it waxed.

 

[spumoni]

Excellent info superbee - thanks for that.



It seems that every week I'm making an emergency order from Autogeek with fast shipping. I don't have ONR, but I do have DP rinseless. (I added it to my buckets the only time I ever washed this car). Is this the same stuff? One way or another, I WILL be washing and waxing the car this weekend.



Most importantly, did the doctors visit go ok?

 

[SuperBee364]

Excellent info superbee - thanks for that.



It seems that every week I'm making an emergency order from Autogeek with fast shipping. I don't have ONR, but I do have DP rinseless. (I added it to my buckets the only time I ever washed this car). Is this the same stuff? One way or another, I WILL be washing and waxing the car this weekend.



Most importantly, did the doctors visit go ok?

I've been meaning to try the DP rinseless wash, but I never have, so I can't speak to its safety like I can ONR. Yeah, rush shipping from the Geek adds up fast. If you're located in the western U.S., you might want to consider Optimum No Rinse (ONR) Gallon. They're in Arizona. I get my stuff in two days from them.



You might want to consider going through your local touch free automatic car wash 'til you get your ONR.



The Doc says I can wash my cars now, but no machine buffing for another six weeks. Ah, well... it's better than nothing. He gave me a copy of my x-rays, showing the metal plate, cadaver bone, and screws in my spine. My wife took one look and said, "so *that's* what's wrong with you... You have a loose screw." She'll be washing her own car for a while...



Maybe we can get some guys that have experience with DP's rinseless wash to chime in?

 

[spumoni]

Superbee - well at least you can wash cars, but sorry you can't use any machines. Maybe it's for the best - I wouldn't argue with the doctor.



So I took the car out tonight for the first time in weeks (the 4th ride since I've owned it) and stopped to get gas. Being a fanatic, I always stand away from the car, never touching anything more than I have to. For some reason, the pump decided to squirt gas ALL OVER the side of the car. I was mortified. I blotted it with a new microfiber I always keep spare, and went straight home. It was too late to wash, so I had no choice other than to spray QD all over the area, and lightly dry. It was awful. I'm waiting till Saturday AM to wash it.



Here's what I'm thinking.



Rinse with hose, spray with foam gun solution of Pinnacle body wash and two ounces of the DP rinseless) wash lightly with cobra microfiber mitt in a grit guard bucket also filled with Pinnacle body wash and DP rinseless, RINSE with another grit guard bucket filled with clean water and DP rinseless, dry with leaf blower.



Do you really think that will cause more wash induce swirls than using the ONR? Should I consider spraying the car down with the DP rinseless a couple times before I hit it with foam? I think I'm losing my mind.



Sorry to nag.

 

[GoudyL]

Spumoni, the car's paint isn't going to be harmed by gasoline unless you soak a rag in it and leave it on the paint surface to soak in.



The simple fact is that the car is going to dirty/swirled as you drive around due to enviromental dust/contamination. You can make it less likely to get swirled by good wash technique, but in the grand scheme of things, its the nature of cars to get dirty if you drive them.



If this frustrates you, you can always apply the black roofing caulk and then sleep comfortably knowing that your OEM black paint is protected for 50+ years under an thick imperiable layer of cured silicone. If anyone askes, tell them you have a "custom shimmer and texture" paint job.

 

[Junebug]

Now that's funny, i don't care who you are, that's funny right there...Larry the Cable Guy

 

[SuperBee364]

Superbee - well at least you can wash cars, but sorry you can't use any machines. Maybe it's for the best - I wouldn't argue with the doctor.



So I took the car out tonight for the first time in weeks (the 4th ride since I've owned it) and stopped to get gas. Being a fanatic, I always stand away from the car, never touching anything more than I have to. For some reason, the pump decided to squirt gas ALL OVER the side of the car. I was mortified. I blotted it with a new microfiber I always keep spare, and went straight home. It was too late to wash, so I had no choice other than to spray QD all over the area, and lightly dry. It was awful. I'm waiting till Saturday AM to wash it.



Here's what I'm thinking.



Rinse with hose, spray with foam gun solution of Pinnacle body wash and two ounces of the DP rinseless) wash lightly with cobra microfiber mitt in a grit guard bucket also filled with Pinnacle body wash and DP rinseless, RINSE with another grit guard bucket filled with clean water and DP rinseless, dry with leaf blower.



Do you really think that will cause more wash induce swirls than using the ONR? Should I consider spraying the car down with the DP rinseless a couple times before I hit it with foam? I think I'm losing my mind.



Sorry to nag.

Unfortunately, I just don't know about DP rinseless, but I would recommend that you follow their directions to the letter when you use it.



If it works the same way as ONR, (which is polymer encapsulation. Sounds like voodoo, but it really does work), then it is dependent upon being used exactly as the directions state. Encapsulating polymers *do not* work well when mixed with other chemicals. You can read a lot about this subject on carpet cleaning forums if you want, but you could also just take Supe's word for it: use the DP rinseless as the directions state.



*IF* and this is a big "if", DP rinseless is an encapsulating polymer type rinseless wash of good quality, you should get just as good mar-free results with it as ONR. And that's much, much better than a hose, bucket, grit gaurd and wash mitt.



No matter which way you choose to wash at home, I really recommend taking it through a touchless coin op first. Get as many abrasives off the car as you can, using the least dangerous method. And that's *always* touch free.

 

[SuperBee364]

Sorry to nag.

Pffft. Don't ever worry about *that*. This kinda stuff is what Autopia is all about.



And if we can get you setup with a car wash routine that will keep you from getting your Lamb swirled up, that would be great.

 

[Accumulator]

..I would recommend getting to know ONR very well, then following up a very thorough ONR wash with a good glaze (Meguiars Show Car Glaze would look wonderful on your Lamb, andi t will hide some defects/swirls/marring), then topping that with Collinite 845 Insulator Wax (available at Harbor Freight for about 12 bucks or so)...

One thing I'd consider changing in the above- that Meguiar's #7Show Car Glaze recommendation. I've been around that stuff all my life and have used it on-and-off since the '70s, and it can be a tricky product to use on black. If there's any chance of getting their #5 New Car Glaze, I'd go that route. Not quite as impressive looking but about the most user-friendly product ever. Autobody/paint supply places often have it, check the ol' Yellow Pages.

Spumoni, the car's paint isn't going to be harmed by gasoline unless you soak a rag in it and leave it on the paint surface to soak in.

That's true, at least with modern basecoat/clearcoat paint (not so true with older paints, as any Series I-III Jag XJ will evidence ).

The simple fact is that the car is going to dirty/swirled as you drive around due to enviromental dust/contamination.

That one I *don't* agree with as it has not been my experience. The only environmental factors that swirl my paint are the clueless creatures who physically contact against my vehicles. Nobody should touch the paint, ever, period, so it oughta stay nice even if it gets dirty. Of course that particular car will probably attract a lot of people, some of whom won't know how to act around (any) cars.

..in the grand scheme of things, its the nature of cars to get dirty if you drive them.

Now that I absolutely *DO* agree with :xyxthumbs I gotta admit I kinda :rolleyes when people here fret about their cars getting dirty during trips/etc. Mine get *FILTHY* at times...they, they get used as transportation, even the "special" ones.



Just can't touch the paint while they're dirty

Here's what I'm thinking.



Rinse with hose, spray with foam gun solution of Pinnacle body wash and two ounces of the DP rinseless) wash lightly with cobra microfiber mitt in a grit guard bucket also filled with Pinnacle body wash and DP rinseless, RINSE with another grit guard bucket filled with clean water and DP rinseless, dry with leaf blower.



Do you really think that will cause more wash induce swirls than using the ONR? Should I consider spraying the car down with the DP rinseless a couple times before I hit it with foam? I think I'm losing my mind.

Pretreating with the DP Rinseless might not be a bad idea but as noted it might misbehave when used in conjunction with conventional products. I sometimes use ONR in conjunction with conventional shampoo for certain areas and it seems to work OK



Note that the Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo is mighty harsh on waxes/etc. Just a tip for after it's waxed



Check that mitt to make sure it doesn't get rubbed against the paint while it's dirty. Clean it out almost *constantly*. That might mean after a few inches of contact.



Fill the mitt with shampoo mix and hold it shut at the cuff, whisk it across the paint while the shampoo seeps out while spraying foamgun output at the point of mitt/paint contact. Short jiggling motions, not long swipes.



(Sorry if I've already posted the above recently; I sometimes forget who I've already told what )



This I *will* repeat: PLEASE don't go nuts over this! I can just imagine the cosmetics of the car becoming overly significant. [Insert way-too-late suggestion that all exotics purchased by non-expert detailers oughta be some color other than black.] You really might have to choose between truly enjoying the ownership experience and having it at some "Autopian" level of near-perfection; please choose the former. The most fun black car I ever had sure didn't look that swell up close



Fueling tip: always hold onto the nozzle and try to feel for odd flow characteristics. Keep a plush MF (a cotton towel would be better but *ONLY* if you're 100% certain it's soft enough that it won't mar the paint..so skip that) on you so you can (very gently) blot up any gas that *does* somehow spill, you can also use it to avoid drips from the nozzle getting on the car. Do everything very deliberately, not on auto-pilot: "I'm inserting the nozzle very carefully; I'm squeezing the lever; I'm holding the lever in the "flow" position; I'm checking the readout to see how close I'm getting to FULL; I'm preparing to remove the nozzle from the filler neck...I'm looking around so nobody sneaks up and jacks my car "

 

[GoudyL]

That one I *don't* agree with as it has not been my experience. The only environmental factors that swirl my paint are the clueless creatures who physically contact against my vehicles. Nobody should touch the paint, ever, period, so it oughta stay nice even if it gets dirty. Of course that particular car will probably attract a lot of people, some of whom won't know how to act around (any) cars.

I'm figuring that if he's driving the Gallardo at a reasonable speed, then anything that hits it will be abrasive.



If he's so concerned about swirls etc, then maybe he should get.

Black Box - Frequently Asked Questions



Since the combination of a black pre-wax cleaner, and black carnauba wax will hide just about everything, and it will be very glossy. As an OTC it should be pretty much perfect for a newbie.

 

[SuperBee364]

One thing I'd consider changing in the above- that Meguiar's #7Show Car Glaze recommendation. I've been around that stuff all my life and have used it on-and-off since the '70s, and it can be a tricky product to use on black. If there's any chance of getting their #5 New Car Glaze, I'd go that route. Not quite as impressive looking but about the most user-friendly product ever. Autobody/paint supply places often have it, check the ol' Yellow Pages.







That one I *don't* agree with as it has not been my experience. The only environmental factors that swirl my paint are the clueless creatures who physically contact against my vehicles. Nobody should touch the paint, ever, period, so it oughta stay nice even if it gets dirty. Of course that particular car will probably attract a lot of people, some of whom won't know how to act around (any) cars.





Just can't touch the paint while they're dirty "

Great idea on the glaze change. So far, on clear coated cars, the #7 hasn't been a total PITA like it was on SS paints, but it's not worth the chance, especially since #5 is always easy to use.



I have never seen "driving induced swirling or marring", either. If a particle hits the paint while driving, it bounces off, causing a pit or chip, but it doesn't hang around and dance on the paint and swirl it up.



The last bolded point should be in *everyone's* sig, and a required daily chant.

 

[spumoni]

Well I spent the last 3 hours finally washing the car. Starting with the wheels, I decided that I definitely need some help with a cleaning product that is safe enough if some accidentally got on the paint. I ended up doing the wheels with a microfiber glove (with fingers). It allowed me to get behind the spokes of the wheel.



For the carI hosed off as much dust and dirt as possible, the sprayed it down with the DP rinseless (not sure if that was necessary), then foamed the car down. I sprayed the foam gun inside the mitt as much as possible as I washed the car, using two grit guard buckets of course. I dried with a leave blower. The annoying thing about the clear bonnet on the Gallardo is that the water comes right in the engine compartment. I stuffed towels in there first, but it's still a nightmare come dry time.



The leaf blower is an absolute must with this car. There are too many crevices to even think about using a microfiber towel.



The little bit of drying that was necessary, I sprayed a light mist of the DP on the towel first.



The car looks good so far. Now I will tape off the flat black panels using the green automotive 3M tape, and glaze with a blue pad using the PC. I don't think claying will be necessary.



Stay tuned!

 

[GS4_Fiend]

Poorboy's Black Hole is good for the black lambo ?

 

[mikenap]

Hey, will you look at that! Yet another Turtle Wax post from Goudy! Will wonders never cease? Those are always so helpful and informative, I look forward to them every time. Instead of getting any kind of OBJECTIVE answer from someone who has actually tried multiple products, just rely on our local TW rep for his product suggestions.

 

[SuperBee364]

Well I spent the last 3 hours finally washing the car. Starting with the wheels, I decided that I definitely need some help with a cleaning product that is safe enough if some accidentally got on the paint. I ended up doing the wheels with a microfiber glove (with fingers). It allowed me to get behind the spokes of the wheel.



For the carI hosed off as much dust and dirt as possible, the sprayed it down with the DP rinseless (not sure if that was necessary), then foamed the car down. I sprayed the foam gun inside the mitt as much as possible as I washed the car, using two grit guard buckets of course. I dried with a leave blower. The annoying thing about the clear bonnet on the Gallardo is that the water comes right in the engine compartment. I stuffed towels in there first, but it's still a nightmare come dry time.



The leaf blower is an absolute must with this car. There are too many crevices to even think about using a microfiber towel.



The little bit of drying that was necessary, I sprayed a light mist of the DP on the towel first.



The car looks good so far. Now I will tape off the flat black panels using the green automotive 3M tape, and glaze with a blue pad using the PC. I don't think claying will be necessary.



Stay tuned!

Look forward to updates.



I hate drying almost as much as I hate water spots. Check out what NSXtasy made all of Autopia aware of: Costco - CR SPOTLESS De-ionized Water Filtration System I have one and it is amazing. Thoroughly rinse your car with this, and you don't need to dry if you don't want to.



I still think you should use the DP Rinseless per the directions, though. I just can't see any benefit of applying it and then spraying the car down with foam...



Edit: I've been reading autogeek's information about DP rinseless. They do say that it's a polymer based wash. Further down the page, they do say you can add it to a regular bucket with regular car wash soap, but I *really* don't think they've done their research on this correctly. If you read up on polymer encapsulation cleaning (as I mentioned, it's very popular among pro carpet cleaners), diluting it too much or adding other chemicals to it drastically reduces the ability of the polymers to do their magic. I think autogeek may have come up with this "adding it to the shampoo bucket" thing on their own, and *in my opinion* I think they're wrong about it. I'd be willing to bet if they checked with their formulator, they'd find this out. You don't see Dr. G (head guy and chemist at Optimum) recommending that you add ONR to Optimum Car Wash soap for good reason.



Dsoto87 mentioned in another thread that DP Rinseless is every bit as good as ONR when used as a rinseless wash. Might want to give it a shot. I would trust using DP Rinseless according to it's directions as a true rinseless wash much more than I would trust adding it to a soap and bucket.

 

[GoudyL]

If you read up on polymer encapsulation cleaning (as I mentioned, it's very popular among pro carpet cleaners), diluting it too much or adding other chemicals to it drastically reduces the ability of the polymers to do their magic.

It's co-emulsification, and the polymers have been tuned to work with the surfactants, I wouldn't mix it.

 

[spumoni]

I really would like to get to the bottom of this. So then, at the very worst, it's just a waste to add it to the wash, correct? If I have nothing to lose, then I'll add it like they say until we hear otherwise.



I ended up glazing the entire car with the PC using a a combination of gray and blue pads with the xmt finishing glaze. There were a couple areas that were driving my crazy, so I went after them with an orange pad and used wolfgang total swirl remove 3.0. This worked remarkably well. I then waxed (by hand) the entire car with the pinnacle souveran paste wax. Although I haven't taken the car out of the garage yet, I'm amazed at how well everything worked out. Talk about satisfaction! I'm hoping to take out outside tomorrow and take some pics.



Can anyone tell me what the safest wheel tire spray would be?



Also, the wheels on the car are matte black. I used a wheel wax on the two front wheels, but it was very difficult to remove. My fear is too much rubbing will cause the matte black to turn shiny. I ended up using a spray wax on the rear wheels. Do you think this will work?



Thanks!

 

[scary bill]

A clean car always makes me smile. I'll bet your black looks awesome with the combo you used.



To clean wheels I use car wash soap, my trucks never get that bad as I clean the wheels at least every few weeks. On wheels I would say use the spray wax and see how it goes. I use AW on wheels as it is easy and it makes cleaning the wheels very easy.



If that isn't enough cleaning power then I would use a APC diluted per directions. For megs APC I use it at 10:1 on my stuff, and 4:1 if its nasty.

 

[GoudyL]

I really would like to get to the bottom of this. So then, at the very worst, it's just a waste to add it to the wash, correct? If I have nothing to lose, then I'll add it like they say until we hear otherwise.

It's probably harmless to mix it, unless the surfactant chemistries are very different. Which you could tell because waxy stuff would start to plate out of the mixture.

Although I haven't taken the car out of the garage yet, I'm amazed at how well everything worked out. Talk about satisfaction! I'm hoping to take out outside tomorrow and take some pics.

See, these things are much more durable than they look.

Can anyone tell me what the safest wheel tire spray would be?

You want something to clean wheel's with? Or something to clean tires with?



For tires, I'd use a soft plastic brush and some car wash soap in water. You could further clean them with some protectant spray like Armor All or F21 etc,

Also, the wheels on the car are matte black. I used a wheel wax on the two front wheels, but it was very difficult to remove. My fear is too much rubbing will cause the matte black to turn shiny. I ended up using a spray wax on the rear wheels. Do you think this will work?



Thanks!

The black wheels could be due to painted metal, (which may or may not be clear coated) or to black chrome plating.



I'd just clean them with car wash soap and water, and if you need anything stronger use a PH balanced wheel cleaner like Eagle 1 Aluminum Wash

, or Black Magic Titanium Wheel Cleaner



If you apply spray wax to the wheels after every wash, it will keep them from becoming very dirty in the future.



If it's matte black paint which is uncoated, then the best way to clean it is with glass cleaner.

 

[black03mach]

I really would like to get to the bottom of this. So then, at the very worst, it's just a waste to add it to the wash, correct? If I have nothing to lose, then I'll add it like they say until we hear otherwise.



I ended up glazing the entire car with the PC using a a combination of gray and blue pads with the xmt finishing glaze. There were a couple areas that were driving my crazy, so I went after them with an orange pad and used wolfgang total swirl remove 3.0. This worked remarkably well. I then waxed (by hand) the entire car with the pinnacle souveran paste wax. Although I haven't taken the car out of the garage yet, I'm amazed at how well everything worked out. Talk about satisfaction! I'm hoping to take out outside tomorrow and take some pics.



Can anyone tell me what the safest wheel tire spray would be?



Also, the wheels on the car are matte black. I used a wheel wax on the two front wheels, but it was very difficult to remove. My fear is too much rubbing will cause the matte black to turn shiny. I ended up using a spray wax on the rear wheels. Do you think this will work?



Thanks!

Congrats, it sounds like your left the car looking nice, be sure to take it out in the sun and inspect the areas you polished with the orange pad to make sure you didnt leave any marks, if you did, just follow up with a white pad and swirl remover then your glaze.



as for the spray wheel cleaner everyone swears by the p21s wheel gel.



like others said enjoy the car! On my corvette I spend countless hours washing and perfecting the paint, but I never take her out and it makes me sad....but at least it looks good right?



oh and quick edit...don't get caught up in the wax collecting hobby either, stick with something you like and use it often!