swirls on black (pics)

S

schrader

New member
hey guys... here's my story... rock hit the hood, made some damage... took it to the dealer for a repair and now i'm stuck with a bad case of swirls...



i am a rookie a detalinig.. and my car is a daily driver... i know i am not going to get perfection on a black daily driver... but i can get close right??



i dont have a plan... so i would appreciate if you guys can provide me with one... the only thing i know is that i am planing on doing it my self and that i will probably get a porter cable...



please guys help me with a plan...and product list ( rookie here so easy on the abbreviations) .



here ar ethe pics.. enjoy!!!
 
Someone will probably chime in at some point and give you a few tips. But in the meantime, let the search tool be your friend. Trust me, you will find more info than you need. i've been here for 3 days and already have a shopping list in the works. Good luck.
 
pc with ssr1 or ssr2 if it takes them off finish it off with EX and you should be ok, cause that pic doesnt look bad go back about a hundred days or so in the click and brag section and see some of the pics posted and read how they got the swirls out.
 
Hi schrader,

From the picture, they look fairly light. How hard they are to remove will depend upon,

Paint hardness

Swirl depth


After you decide you plan of attack, do a "Test Spot".

Apply your products, using your application materials and choice of application procedure, (rotary, PC, hand), to one small area.

Work all the way from beginning to your final wax, or last step product. Then inspect in both indoor lighting and outdoor lighting.

If the results look good... then repeat the process to the entire car. If you are not seeing the results you're looking for, then stop and revaluate your plan of attack.


If you cannot make one small area look good with your choice of products and procedures, then you will not be able to make the entire car look good.

(Anyone want to here a horror story about a guy, his hand, a tatty rag, some old fashioned compound and a single stage white finish?)

Hope this helps...

Mike
 
schrader



Those swirls are actually not too bad and you might even be able to address them by hand rather needing a Porter Cable Dual Action polisher. The initial investment of a PC can easily hit $250-300 after you take into account the polisher, backing plate and pads of various cutting power.



Personally, if I was you, I would first start:



1. With a good wash of the vehicle. Using only a sheepskin mitt or 100% cotton mitt using the 2 bucket approach (1 bucket with just water for rinsing the mitt and the other with soap/water).



2. Claying with Mother's clar bar.



3. Another good wash.



4. Drying with a Microfiber (MF) waffleweave.



5. With a foam pad, I'd try using either Swirl Free Polish (SFP) from Meguiars Body Shop line of products or 3M Perfect III Machine Glaze. I'd try 2 or 3 passes and see if that rids the swirls. Depending on your arm stamina, you might be able to try using Dual Action Cleaner Polish (DACP) from Meguiars with a foam pad and see if that helps. Then following up with SFP to get rid of any micromarring. Then waxing it with either Meguiars No. 26, Meguiars Gold Class, Meguiars NXT, S100 (motorcycle line of wax) etc.



Considering you are relatively new to this, I'd recommend tackling it a panel at time. It will take some time by hand to complete. I'd first start on the front quater panel. It will probably take you any 1-2 hours per panel at first until you get use to how to work the product (don't let it dry out and how much pressure to apply). That way, you might be able to do 2 or 3 panels a day. After a week or so, you'll have the whole car done.



Then once you have it to the point that you are happy, you can then start looking at sealants, more exotic waxes and adding to your product line.



Note: This hobby can get expensive in a hurry. Search through the forum and you'll see people easily spending $100's - $1,000 on products their first year (myself included - PC, towels, products etc.)



The single most important thing to remember is use good quality towels, be careful when washing and pay attention to what you are doing. It's very very very difficult not to introduce swirls or scratches, what's important is that you know how address them and keeping them to a minimum - especially on a daily driver.



Paco
 
Mike: Sure! Let's hear it. I'm usually interested in stories with morals at the end! The car made it, didn't it? Please say it didn't die!:D
 
Schrader

I am new here too, but similar thing happened to me also. Someone ran a stop sign and smashed into me--she's a brand new car so took her back to the dealership to get fixed. First of all they didn't match the paint, and they put swirl marks all over a car that had NONE to start with. (We asked that the dealer didn't do anything to the paint b4 we picked her up when we bought her so that we could start with a good finish, and always ask that they not run her thru the rack after services--NO ONE washes/waxes my baby except myself, the husband isn't even allowed to wash her). We got the owner of the dealership involved and he was MAD that the body shop did such a poor job. We took her back to have them repaint the new bumper/fender again at their expense to match the paint, and remove the swirls that they put on her. They subbed out the buffing to a professional detailer at their expense.



I'd first go to where you had it repaired and ask them to take care of their sloppiness! You shouldn't have to repair their mistakes, unless you don't trust them and want to do it yourself!
 
BigLeegr said:
Mike: Sure! Let's hear it. I'm usually interested in stories with morals at the end! The car made it, didn't it? Please say it didn't die!:D
Click to expand...



I pretty much summed it up, above, but here's the skinny,



I met this man through the Usenet Newsgroups on rec.autos.misc



He wanted to know how to get the scratches out of his finish. So, I responded back and asked him about the scratches. That's when he told me that he tried to polish out his car starting with a hand applied rubbing compound. (Dupont's I think).



He applied the rubbing compound to the entire car and then wipe it off to reveal a compete, scratched up mess. I forget the car but he told me he was seeing white paint on his rag.



He did not have a rotary buffer, or the skill to use one. I pretty much told him he would have to take it to a professional. I also told him he was probably sc***ed because those scratches were going to be difficult, if not impossible to completely buff out because of the hardness of most single-stage white paints.



The lesson he learned was to do a test spot in one small area first to see if he can make it look good before applying to the entire car.



He simply let his excitement get a head of him. It taught me that not everyone I communicate with over the Internet has good hand skills. It's important when helping people work on their car's paint, and you don't know their skill level, or their specific paint problem, to be cautions. Start out with having them test their products of choice in a small area first, and sometimes in an inconspicuous area first.



Mike



p.s.



Never heard from the guy again…
 
jinxxycat said:
I'd first go to where you had it repaired and ask them to take care of their sloppiness!
Click to expand...



In my life, I have listened to many people tell me the story of how the dealership, or body shop swirled out their car after the repair. They then tell me how they would take it back and have it redone.



They then tell me how when they got their car back, while it looks better, it's still swirled out.



Here's why...



If the shop that buffed it out the first time could do it right, they would have done it right. When you take it back to them and they continue to use the same products and procedures they used the first time to instill the swirls, they will continue to instill the swirls every time.



It's funny because I have actually met detailers that think that by just buffing again, or buffing longer, they will improve or fix the problem when in fact the problem is in their hands, (usually a wool pad on a rotary buffer), or sitting on a shelf, (a poor quality compound).



What's sad is often the guy doing the buffing work wants to use better products, but he is trapped using what the shop manager purchases for the shop.



Mike
 
Those swirls look very familiar. I had a similar problem happen to my black lexus. The person who used the buffer was obviousy lacking experience. Fixing your problem involves a very simple process and some common sense. This process involves washing, polishing and lastly protecting the paint.



1. Wash vehicle well using a quality car shampoo and a REAL Sea sponge. (sea sponge will not fill up with dirt like a wash mit).



2. Use detailing clay if your paint has any other surface contaminants that do not wash off (tree sap, rail dust, tar, paint overspray). Clay is very simple to use, just make sure you use a good lubricant. You can use either a bucket of clean water with EXTRA car champoo or a detailing spray wax. Simply glide the clay over the surface in a back and fourth motion in all directions using very little pressure; just the weight of the clay and your hand is enough. Kneed the clay after each small section to reveal a new piece. If it drops on ground throw it away do not use it. I break mine into three sections before i use it just for that reason.



3. Rinse the car well and dry using a SINTHETIC chamois or microfiber towel.



4. Select a quality swirl remover. I prefer to use HI-TEMP LIGHT CUT. (This is actually a paint cleaner / polish) You should not need anything more than a light cutting swirl remover. (Always start with the least aggressive). Stay away from the glazes, they only hide the swirls temporarily & does not remove them.

Considering you are a hobbiest and truely enjoy detailing, a small investment in an orbital polisher is worth it. Use the swirl remover with a dual action orbital polisher and a POLISHING pad. It will save you a lot of time and the results will be significantly better than by hand. Orbital polishers are foolproof. Just keep the pad flat on the surface and work slowly, first moving in horizontal lines as you work down the panel then in vertical lines working accross. Do small sections at a time using a nickel size drop on the pad Wipe off with cotton towel before moving to the next section. No need to let dry. I prefer to use cotton baby diapers or terry weave towel. Change towels often.



5. Pull the car out into the sun light after the whole car is polished. You need good light to inspect the finish. Swirls should be gone and you should have a near perfect finish. If you still see some swirls you can go over those areas again with the swirl remover. After polishing make sure all polish residue is wiped off. I usually go over the whole car one last time with a cotten baby diaper.



6. Protect the paint with a quality carnauba wax. I prefer P21S or Trade Secret from Top Of The Line. Apply wax by hand with a wax applicator pad. Use a very thin amount. Do a small section at a time and wipe off after only a minute, no need to let dry.



7. If you want to give your paint even more depth apply a second thin coat of wax 24 hours later.



Good luck, I hope this helps.



Carzzz
 
thanks for all your replies!!!! right now im not to big on cash... but next month will br great and i hope i can purchase the orbital !! for now im ordering some quality products and i'll try come of the methods mentioned by hand!!!



thanks!
 
Mike Phillips said:
In my life, I have listened to many people tell me the story of how the dealership, or body shop swirled out their car after the repair. They then tell me how they would take it back and have it redone.



They then tell me how when they got their car back, while it looks better, it's still swirled out.



Here's why...



If the shop that buffed it out the first time could do it right, they would have done it right. When you take it back to them and they continue to use the same products and procedures they used the first time to instill the swirls, they will continue to instill the swirls every time.



It's funny because I have actually met detailers that think that by just buffing again, or buffing longer, they will improve or fix the problem when in fact the problem is in their hands, (usually a wool pad on a rotary buffer), or sitting on a shelf, (a poor quality compound).



What's sad is often the guy doing the buffing work wants to use better products, but he is trapped using what the shop manager purchases for the shop.



Mike
Click to expand...



Mike, the dealership actually subbed out the work the second time around to someone else that does nothing but detail work. I would not have let them try to repair the mess they created themselves. I am very pleased with the results the professional detailer got. No swirls on my girl again! Thanks for the info though. Terri
 
carzzz said:
and a REAL Sea sponge. (sea sponge will not fill up with dirt like a wash mit).
Click to expand...



Where does all the dirt go then? If its not going into the mitt/sponge, then are you not pushing it across the paint?



I've made the transition from sponges to sheepskin mitts, and I'm leary about trying any sponges again...
 
Maybe I'm totally wrong (this monitor has a very low gamma) but those look more like "wax on, wax off, Daniel-san" circular micro-scratches from someone using something scratchy, like a brush or dropped sponge, on the car when washing.



I think you can get that out by hand.



(again, note, the picture is very dark on my machine, just in case it looks truly horrid on a brighter screen)
 
yes!! i would like an honest opinion on if i can get rid of those by hand...

btw... real sea sponge or real sheeps skin mit???
 
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