Suggestions of a sporty ride at or less than $53K???

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're going about your decision the wrong way. Although tenths of a second here and there and marginal performance differences are an important consideration in choosing a car, I think they're a far second behind other considerations like how refined the car is, how much you enjoy driving it, which designs are appealing, etc. The M3 and the Cobra are very different cars.... I could understand nitpicking the performance differences of an S4 vs M3, but M3 vs. Cobra?? There are just so many other more fundamental differences between these cars that are much more prevalent than the speed off the line that you should consider. Driving a European import is quite a different experience than something like a Cobra. My guess is that you'll narrow your list considerably once you test drive these cars.



I suspect that you'll change your mind once you test drive these cars, but if pure performance is what you want, then oftentimes it's what you do AFTER you buy the car that is more important than which car you choose. How about something like my bro-in-law's '91 300ZX twin turbo with extensive engine mods that has been dyno'd at 450 HP? This car will smoke all the cars that have been mentioned here off the line as well as in handling (with the possible exception of the C5).
 
No question the Cobra beats the M3 0-60 and 1/4 mile. However, they are in different classifications as far as cars go.



Truthfully, with the importance of 0-60 and ¼ mile speeds and wanting new or practically new, you are not going to be happy with any other car other than the Cobra or Z06 (and you don't like the bowtie) so get the Cobra. It is the fastest car on the list 0-60 and in the ¼ mile (when you don't consider the Z06). Other cars like the M3 are not this purpose built and are more well rounded and considered a GT type car. Not all these cars are considered competitors of each other. All these cars have different strengths and weaknesses. None of these cars a perfect as there is always a compromise.



Consider this….except for in an actual race, statistics and objective quantifications really don’t mean squat when comparing cars. There are other subjective things such a feel, connection with the driver and road, character, ergonomics, styling, and many other factors that make people decide what car they drive. Drive them and decide which you want. You may surprise yourself. The fact is there are many modified cars on the road that will have any of these cars for lunch in stock form and at the same time most of these cars in stock form are faster than the majority of the cars on the road.
 
bet993 said:
Consider this….except for in an actual race, statistics and objective quantifications really don’t mean squat when comparing cars. There are other subjective things such a feel, connection with the driver and road, character, ergonomics, styling, and many other factors that make people decide what car they drive. Drive them and decide which you want. You may surprise yourself. The fact is there are many modified cars on the road that will have any of these cars for lunch in stock form and at the same time most of these cars in stock form are faster than the majority of the cars on the road.
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Very well said. For me, there are about 6-7 cars on that list that I would never buy, simply because they're just not what I look for in a car.....and it has nothing to do with speed, lat accel or MPG.
 
Another question to consider is are you willing to start modifying the vehicle, or are you primarily interested in remaining stock?

If you are interested in customizing your vehicle, then the mustang has one of the largest aftermarket available. Your possibilities will be endless if true performance is what you desire.

I have an 88 stang with extensive mods and the car is an absolute beast. You will be at the aforementioned 450 RWHP with very minor modifications to the cobra. With a total investment of 53K you would probably be in the neighborhood of 600 reliable/streetable RWHP

The others have touched on some important points however. There is no comparison whatsoever between the fit, finish, and refinement of the M3 or G35 vs the Vette or the Cobra. The mustang is full of cheap plastic. The best leather that Ford has to offer would not be used by BMW to cover a spare tire. Furthermore, the STOCK handling of the M3, and the STOCK breaking of the G35 are supposed to be second to none.

I think the cobra is an excellent platform to build your own personalized Diablo killer. With this amazing performance you will sacrifice refinement and overall aesthetics.

If you are not interested in customizing, then I would go with the Zo6 for sheer performance out of the box.

For overall refinement and quality either the M3 or G35.

Good Luck :xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs

I cant express to you the joy of smoking a 550 Maranello in a car under 50K that you personally designed.
 
Are some of you trying to tell Explorer that one car looks better than another. Sure, quality of the interior is quite objective, but styling is not. Maybe he thinks the M3 looks bland and prefers the Cobra's edges;)
 
I don't know if anyone mentioned this already (i skipped pages 2-5) but a Supra Twin Turbo, modded can very easily reach 600-700+ Wheel HP with basicl bolt on mods, it looks damn sexy, and handles great.



I have a mildly modded WRX, and my friend has a 94 Supra TT, mildy modded (mine's a 5sp and his is AUTO) and it blows the doors off my car.



That's what I'd get. Or if new is the only way you go, get I'd get either the M3 or a S2000. . .drool!
 
WRXemALL said:
I have a mildly modded WRX, and my friend has a 94 Supra TT, mildy modded (mine's a 5sp and his is AUTO) and it blows the doors off my car.
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You have to pick your battles . . . I'll take on any car in my WRX, as long as I get to pick the dirty/wet/snowy road, and we knock it off around 60 mph. :D



Tort
 
The following are the results from the point assignment. There were holes of information in certain characteristics for certain cars, but I did try to correct using the most closely related information. Here it is...



Ok, I can't get my info to work properly... I'll try to get the HTML stuff working soon...
 
Alright, here's one last list of statistics... It's the final overall placement for each car, according to points assigned to each car in each of the categories. If the car was the top in the category, it received 12 points. If the car was the bottom in the category, it received 1 point. Obviously price was assigned negatively. Also, you will notice that some of the values have a star next to them in certain categories for certain cars. The reason for this is because I did not have all the information on every car. I then assigned the values in a manner that I think SHOULD put the fastest, best handling car out on top. Anyways, here are the stats that I came up with:
 
<table style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><tr><td>Vehicle</td><td width="10"></td><td>0-60</td><td width="10"></td><td>1/4 mile</td><td width="10"></td><td>Lat. Accel.</td><td width="10"></td><td>HP/TQ</td><td width="10"></td><td>Mileage</td><td width="10"></td><td>Price</td><td width="10"></td><td>Total</td></tr><tr><td>2003 BMW M3</td><td></td><td>9</td><td></td><td>9</td><td></td><td>7</td><td></td><td>8</td><td></td><td>3</td><td></td><td>4</td><td></td><td>40</td></tr><tr><td>2004 Audi S4</td><td></td><td>6</td><td></td><td>7*</td><td></td><td>2*</td><td></td><td>9</td><td></td><td>5</td><td></td><td>5</td><td></td><td>34</td></tr><tr><td>2003 SVT Cobra</td><td></td><td>11</td><td></td><td>11</td><td></td><td>9</td><td></td><td>11</td><td></td><td>2*</td><td></td><td>7</td><td></td><td>51</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Chevrolet Corvette Z06</td><td></td><td>12</td><td></td><td>12</td><td></td><td>12</td><td></td><td>12</td><td></td><td>8</td><td></td><td>2</td><td></td><td>58</td></tr><tr><td>2004 WRX STi</td><td></td><td>10</td><td></td><td>10</td><td></td><td>6</td><td></td><td>7</td><td></td><td>7</td><td></td><td>11</td><td></td><td>51</td></tr><tr><td>2003 G35 Sport Coupe</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td><td>10</td><td></td><td>4</td><td></td><td>12</td><td></td><td>10</td><td></td><td>38</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Nissan 350Z Track</td><td></td><td>4</td><td></td><td>4</td><td></td><td>5</td><td></td><td>5</td><td></td><td>11</td><td></td><td>8</td><td></td><td>37</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Volvo S60R</td><td></td><td>3</td><td></td><td>3*</td><td></td><td>1*</td><td></td><td>6</td><td></td><td>1*</td><td></td><td>6</td><td></td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Mazda RX-8</td><td></td><td>2</td><td></td><td>2</td><td></td><td>4</td><td></td><td>2</td><td></td><td>6</td><td></td><td>9</td><td></td><td>25</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Honda S2000</td><td></td><td>7</td><td></td><td>6</td><td></td><td>8</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td><td>10</td><td></td><td>12</td><td></td><td>44</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Porsche Boxster S</td><td></td><td>5</td><td></td><td>5</td><td></td><td>11</td><td></td><td>3</td><td></td><td>9</td><td></td><td>1</td><td></td><td>38</td></tr><tr><td>2003 Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG</td><td></td><td>8</td><td></td><td>8</td><td></td><td>3</td><td></td><td>10</td><td></td><td>4</td><td></td><td>3</td><td></td><td>36</td></tr></table>

This information puts the cars in the following order from first to last:



2003 Corvette Z06

2003 SVT Cobra

2003 WRX STi

2003 Honda S2000

2003 BMW M3

2003 G35 Sport Coupe

2003 Nissan 350Z Track

2003 MB C32 AMG

2003 Porsche Boxster S

2004 Audi S4

2003 Mazda RX-8

2003 Volvo S60R



Fixed table - Tort
 
hmm, why is a c32 getting a 8 for 0-60, I realize you assigned other cars of the same speed higher values, but that sways the whole rating and makes it worthless.....



Are you putting any value in other areas other than speed/handling?



Comfort, Resale, Looks, etc....... Some of the subjective areas like that are more important to me in the long run.
 
bjwebster said:
hmm, why is a c32 getting a 8 for 0-60, I realize you assigned other cars of the same speed higher values, but that sways the whole rating and makes it worthless.....



Are you putting any value in other areas other than speed/handling?



Comfort, Resale, Looks, etc....... Some of the subjective areas like that are more important to me in the long run.
Click to expand...



And don't forget about a couple other very important objective measures: Braking from 60 or 80; and Top Speed.



I still think the Cobra and the Corvette are going crush the competition completely!
 
Well ladies and gentlemen, a little update...



I drove the 2003 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra coupe this past weekend and I am no less than stunned. I have pretty much fallen in love with the car. However, in the interest of finding the most pleasurable driving experience, I will drive the other cars on the list as well. I will try my best to be objective.



I loved the car. It had the pin-you-against-your-seat-until-you-beg-for-mercy feel when you give it even 40-50% throttle. The interior of the car does not bother me at all. I'm actually kind of fond of it. The seats were comfortable enough for me and I felt secure in them, especially after I adjusted the power thigh and back bolsters and lumbar support. I must admit that it is definitely an extremely fun car to drive and that it is my current favorite choice, especially when you consider the price($35,065 on the sticker). I love the car.



I'll try to keep you all updated as the test-driving process continues...
 
bet993 said:
There is nothing to laugh about the GSR. It was (still is) a very capable car for the cost. It doesn't have much torque but it has a rev happy engine. Depending on the year and the suspension set up it had a good chassis and offered nice handling for a front wheel drive car. The Honda S2000 on your list offers a very similar driving experience to the GSR, with a little more power and a little stiffer chassis, but without the utility of the hatchback design. Both cars have no torque down low and both are happy to be driven with the revs above 4000 at all times. Maintenance and reliability are second to none to the cars on your list.
Click to expand...



Amen to this. I second the motion. :up

Anyway, if I were in your position I'd pick the M3 regardless of how the performance numbers stack up. I have driven both the E36 and E46 versions of this car and the driving experience is second to none. (Porsches excluded. LOL.) Having the 0-60 times on paper isn't as important to me as how much fun the car is to drive. Trust me, the M3 IS fun to drive.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
You have to pick your battles . . . I'll take on any car in my WRX, as long as I get to pick the dirty/wet/snowy road, and we knock it off around 60 mph. :D



Tort
Click to expand...



I'll take any car in my WRX, anytime... It's nice having a stage 4+ tuned WRX (370+ hp at the crank) with AWD :D



of course, there are many faster cars out there... but I don't see too many of them on the street ;)



-Bob
 
Yes but where are your:

heated/cooled seats, voice activated stereo, xenon headlamps, navigation system, onboard telephone, rain sensing wipers, adaptive cruise control, keyless ignition system, nappa leather upholstered interor, etc....



My point is, different things appeal to different people. I don't think Explorer has experienced enough of the variety of cars available on the market to know exactly what he wants. For example, I bet very few M3 owners considered Mustang Cobras and vice versa. Cars on his list range from ultra-refined German sedans to more raw performance machines.



Let's also consider warranty issues for a new car (sorry if this was already mentioned). Factory tuned cars have huge appeal in this regard.
 
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