Sticky Factory Paint

R

RAG

New member
Though I haven't posted but once or twice in the last 6 months or so, a trend in paint has been bothering me a bit - more and more factory paint jobs are utilizing a clear coat that does not buff easily in that it feels "sticky" and produces a lot of friction between the pad and clear...not a problem and is not noticeable via PC, but via rotary the extra friction causes a lot more torque and heat, making the buffing less pleasant and ultimately making it more difficult to finish down without any buffer swirls on the darker colors. And this type of clear seems to be getting ever more common.



I don't expect most to have encountered this phenomonon, but professionals who do a lot of cars and primarily use a rotary should know what I'm talking about. At first, I thought it was me, so I tried a bunch of different polishes, pads, and even preparation procedures...but nothing worked, but the tell-tale sign that the paint composition was the culprit was the fact that I'd be buffing a "sticky" car, only to have to buffing get glass smooth/normal on a particular panel, and grabbing my ETG would confirm that the smooth panel was repainted (I've never had aftermarket paint feel sticky/grippy). Though I cannot narrow it down to a specific car model since different plants use different paints, I can say I've experienced this in some Jaguars, Range Rovers, BMWs, and Honda's (S2000s only).
 
I did a sample spot on a new RRover and didn't notice anything odd. I've also done a couple S2K's and didn't notice anything abnormal. What polishes have you experienced this with?
 
RAG: You and me both.





This has happened on my Infiniti, many Nissans, and a couple others. I usually switch to a slippery Menzerna product, dial the speed down, and use mists of Z6 on the panel as well. Why this happens, I still do not know.
 
When you say sticky, does it normally correlate with a car that has very soft paint? I haven't noticed "stickiness", but I do use primarily Menzerna stuff to compound. I have noticed the cars you mention tend to be on the soft side.
 
Great post RAG, I have experienced this on a late 90's Jaguard (ford) where the makita didn't want to glide along it well and was fighting me. It wanted to go the other way that I did. The strong foam pads just kept chattering and it took me 14 hours to get this black jag perfect (paint wasn't that great)



The showcar I am doing now which has the darkest black available is smooth as glass to work on.

I'd hate for all new cars to come out with this type of clear if that's the problem.

Maybe it can't handle the heat and gets gluey when it warms up during buffing
 
SpoiledMan said:
Maybe that's why I haven't experienced it. I'm always using that slippery Menzerna stuff.:D
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I use PO106FF almost exclusively. However, up encountering this tricky paint, I have tried a slew of different pads and polishes, including Meguiars, Optimum, FPII, SSR1, and others to see if it would help with the problem - it didn't.
 
Picus said:
When you say sticky, does it normally correlate with a car that has very soft paint? I haven't noticed "stickiness", but I do use primarily Menzerna stuff to compound. I have noticed the cars you mention tend to be on the soft side.
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I wouldn't necessarily say it was due to the paint being soft, but it's so hard to say, so maybe you got something here (but I almost always find aftermarket paint to be significantly softer than factory paint, and I've never had this issue with aftermarket paint whereas I've probably done 50 cars with "sticky" paint.
 
G35stilez said:
RAG: You and me both.





This has happened on my Infiniti, many Nissans, and a couple others. I usually switch to a slippery Menzerna product, dial the speed down, and use mists of Z6 on the panel as well. Why this happens, I still do not know.
Click to expand...



When this happens (the rotary not wanting to glide or spin with ease), the only thing I have found to help is to apply the product toward the edge of the pad (but not too far out so it doesn't sling), and to "spur" the foam pad with a toothbrush a couple times per panel to prevent any build up. I have tried QD and even completely wetting the pad...just didn't seem to fix the problem for me.
 
This is a great topic.



This is mainly due to poor washing and rinsing sometimes. I have noticed this same thing on softer clears that are very absorbant.



This is caused by self washing at car washes with spray soap and not rinsing of the soap 100%. Then the high chemical solvent soaps absorb into the paint and becoming part of the paint resulting in grabby paint.



Even hand washing when using too strong of a soap and letting dry in the hot sun and not rinsing all the residue off resulting in the same issue.



Soaps will embed themselves into certain paints if not protected well.



Soap + sun + not rinsing while wet + unprotected paint + wrong soap + not drying= future paint prep problems
 
RAG said:
I wouldn't necessarily say it was due to the paint being soft, but it's so hard to say, so maybe you got something here (but I almost always find aftermarket paint to be significantly softer than factory paint, and I've never had this issue with aftermarket paint whereas I've probably done 50 cars with "sticky" paint.
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One of the cars with sticky paint that RAG is talking about was my 06 VW GLI.

RAG was able to finish the paint with rotary without any buffer swirls. :xyxthumbs



Rydawg, I only hand wash my car using Meg's Gold Class soap and I rinse and dry thoroughly. I wax probably once a month using a couple coats of Meg's #21 so I don't think, at least in my case, the sticky paint is caused by "Soap + sun + not rinsing while wet + unprotected paint + wrong soap + not drying= future paint prep problems."
 
what about all these miracle crap/super duper sealants out today? could it be from that? you now, the **** dealerships sells thats suppose to last 10 years or a life time? or the permaguard stuff thats suppose to add another addition clear like layer on your vehicle? the ming?



a question i try to find out but never answered is if the permaguard does work, leaving an additional layer of clear onto your car while filling the old swirls and scratches... can it be buffed later on? or do you just have to add more when it gets messed up again?
 
Al Buff said:
what about all these miracle crap/super duper sealants out today? could it be from that? you now, the **** dealerships sells thats suppose to last 10 years or a life time? or the permaguard stuff thats suppose to add another addition clear like layer on your vehicle? the ming?



a question i try to find out but never answered is if the permaguard does work, leaving an additional layer of clear onto your car while filling the old swirls and scratches... can it be buffed later on? or do you just have to add more when it gets messed up again?
Click to expand...

I had done a car that had permagaurd and it was a pain to polish. Most of these car lot rip off packages are not good for the paint. I am sure they are some cause of sticky paint on some cars.
 
The permagard reactive plastic coating is permanent and is 32 microns thick

You use the pre delivery product by machine and then hand to remove any scratches and swirls from the coating and thus you never remove any paint as the coatings too hard to cut through.

The PD5000 that I now have in stock for pro use is non abrasive and will fill defects mostly but unlike all others, won't wash out. It works like a polish on just about any exterior auto surface. I love it on exterior trims after trim dream and unpainted side mirror backings (non textured)



I spoke to the SA distributor on the phone yesterday and it's really impressive gear

Costs me $85 per bottle but I'll be getting trade price shortly.



The PD 5000 is a 12 to 16 month sealant (in australia anyway) and all water sheets off of my car so well that I don't need a towel to dry the panels it's been applied too

Glare Pro Polish sealant is on the other side.
 
Just had the distributor/aircraft detailer demonstrate all the products

The leather stuff is brilliant

Their tyre gel is clear and has no smell, you don't need much and if you get any on your hands, you can rub it in like skin cream and it will moisturise it.



I picked up more PD 5000, severe and he gave me a full one litre sample of Auto Correction System (pad determines cut)

At the moment I'm not expecting much from the ACS but the other products are great.
 
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